Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sunburn]

I know Glacier View is held in low esteam on the "LEFT COAST" but never the less, it has soundly defined the doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.


I am a little slow as usual in understanding some of your comments Mr. Joy, no offense taken.  What do you mean about "Glacier View is held in low esteam on the "LEFT COAST" etc"  Is this comment related to Mr. Ford vs the SDA church years ago or the location of Glacier Vew in Colorado?? 

Thank you,

Sunburn

[GrandmaNettie]

"Traveling on the Sabbath

"If we desire the blessing promised to the obedient, we must observe the Sabbath more strictly. I fear that we often travel on this day when it might be avoided. In harmony with the light which the Lord has given in regard to the observance of the Sabbath, we should be more careful about traveling on the boats or cars on this day. In these matters we should set a right example before our children and youth. In order to reach the churches that need our help, and to give them the message that God desires them to hear, it may be necessary for us to travel on the Sabbath; but so far as possible we should secure our tickets and make all necessary arrangements on some other day. When starting on a journey we should make every possible effort to plan so as to avoid reaching our destination on the Sabbath" (6T 359, 360)

Bob, this is an interesting EGW quote for you to bring up in this particular thread.  Perhaps SDAminister hadn't run across this one in his studies before he started this thread to regretfully try to sully the reputation of Pastor Wintley Phipps due to his seat on the 3abn BOD.

GrandmaNettie,
...and perhaps SDAminister had run across this one in his studies.

Let's reestablish a few facts:
-Elder Phipps was not traveling to an SDA church to give a Sabbath message

So?  It would make it all better if his destination was an SDA church?  The quote that Bob used as supporting material for his argument stated "in order to reach the churches that need our help".  It did not specify SDA churches.

-The purpose of Elder Phipps trip was to raise money for his business/charity---US Dream Academy. See the motive? Not Sabbath truth, but money for Dream Academy.

US Dream Academy is his ministry.  The man who organized the fundraiser did so to  raise and donate the funds to Wintley Phipps' ministry.  God's message to this world is not only "Sabbath truth", it is everlasting life for those who believe in Him.  See John 3.

-Since Elder Phipps has stated, according to others on this forum, that he is a full time employee of the Dream Academy, why didn't he travel to his destination on the Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday preceding his concert? You know, the days of the week that he works for the Dream Academy. As you so eloquently quoted, "When starting on a journey we should make every possible effort to plan so as to avoid reaching our destination on the Sabbath". Elder Phipps appears to have failed to do what you suggested he do. Instead, he skipped the service at his own church Sabbath morning and took a mid-day Sabbath flight across country to perform at a for-profit concert.

SDAminister

Few will buy your feeble attempt to attribute the words of the EGW statement from Bob's post as me suggesting anything to Pastor Wintley Phipps.  I'm certain that some will be flattered that you tried, though.

You might want to check with an accountant to determine if that event was actually a "for-profit concert" or if, perhaps, you have mispoken. 

I believe you have just expressed an ecumenical view grandma. You lean any further left and we will have to get you a crutch just to calzl you a Seventh-day Adventist!!!

Do you need studies on being a Seventh-day Adventist or do you also subscribe to the premise that we all can be saved in our sins and therefore it makes no difference what we believe as long as we believe on the Name Jesus Christ?

I think we already had that battle with Elder Ford, et al? I know Glacier View is held in low esteam on the "LEFT COAST" but never the less, it has soundly defined the doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. All others are not Seventh-day Adventist doctrine and represent apostacy, a sign of the times, I suppose.

Gailon Arthur Joy

I think you might be correct in your belief that I am expressing an ecumenical view.  I appreciate that you noticed and brought it to my attention as well as to the others viewing this forum.  While I am a baptized member of the Seventh-day Adventist church I do not believe that either the denomination or the 28 fundamentals are the sole conduit to eternal life through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  As Duane's signature line so aptly puts it, "It's not about religion, it's about relationship."  Not only does God have beloved children in other churches, He has children that are not in churches at all.... who don't even "know" Him.

I believe: that some of those who Jesus gives a thumbs up to in the judgment might have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the Holy Spirit, they have been a blessing to those around them.  Even among heathen are those who cherish the spirit of kindness, who, without hearing the words of life, have befriended and ministered to those in God's service, even at the risk of their own lives.  Some heathen worship God without realizing it, without the message ever being shared by another human, yet they will not perish.  They might be ignorant of the written law of God but they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature and have lived accordingly.  Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts and they are seen as the children of God.

These, deemed low in value among the nations and among the heathens, will be joyfully surprised to hear our Savior tell them "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto me"!  I believe our Savior's loving heart will be filled with joy as His followers look up with surprise and joy at His words of approval!

IOW, the true test of character is how we treat those around us.  Does my above paraphrase of another's words seem a little LEFT COAST?  It might be.
 

[Donna]

Some things cannot be explained away by you only have partial facts. Try as you will, the horse situation still smells to high heaven as does ebay. Those of you here and elsewhere that have tried to explain DS dealings have not even come close to the bar.
Having done both types of business you have not been convincing,only shown what you accuse others of. Partial facts

Bonnie, Here is an opportunity for you to go straight to Danny Shelton for the truth about the horses:

Having an interview with Danny on the first Friday evening in  
September...

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/306/1

All questions are invited, but asking people not to duplicate what  
someone else has, not flood him with a zillion question in one post.

[Sister]

Donna, what makes you think Danny will tell the truth?

[bonnie]

Bonnie, Here is an opportunity for you to go straight to Danny Shelton for the truth about the horses:

Having an interview with Danny on the first Friday evening in  
September...

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/306/1

All questions are invited, but asking people not to duplicate what  
someone else has, not flood him with a zillion question in one post.

This is almost funny. I am to ask DS in a interview and then he will answer truthfully whether he lied or not.

DS can say he was ignorant of IRS rules and regulations concerning his horses until the second coming,I still would not believe him.

DS was not a novice at breeding and raising horses. Only a complete novice could say truthfully he was ignorant of the rules. Nor can anyone honestly claim that Stephan Lewis was ignorant. A decent accountant will give advice to his clients pertaining to the deductions presented for filing at the first year you are declaring a business.
DS had been breeding horses long enough to have to consider obtaining a new bloodline. Given what the  expense of raising a stallion vs outside stud service is breeders do not keep a stallion for fun or the love of horses.
It takes a gestation of almost a year . Then you wait another up to 3 years to breed the offspring. In the meantime you are maintaining an animal you can no longer use. Waiting for the next breeding cycle. 
The answers I have received from the DS supporters are not accurate either. Such as DS went to buy his own feed.
Share a little something with you, most of us that have done this do the same and it does not substantially lower the price of maintaining a stable of horses. For many it only meant that delivery of the hay etc we bough was not available. But then of course you have to store the feed. Hired help again? Maybe LS helped him throw the bales on the elevator or ??
But it does say that DS has the ability to do that. At the least he would need another vehicle to transport the feed. Usually you then have two to load. One to stack and one to throw the bales into the back of a truck or pickup.Now, was LS the other party, probably not,so then another cost involved.
A pickup would be a poor choice to haul hay for a number of horses,but can be done. It would be smarter and more cost efficient to have the feed delivered. It is not that much higher and equals out

A little doing of the math will tell you the probability of dishonesty is very,very high. Especially in light of the claims that the salary was 94.000.00 jointly and had been lower for a number of years.
DS had more than 4 horses and a pony as was explained elsewhere. 


No, I don't believe DS and would not anticipate a truthful response to this question. That is a bit silly for you to even suggest . Might have worked before the very well known e-mails from DS to LS

 

[bonnie]

Another very suspect story is the one on ebay. You simply cannot deny that someone from the 3ABN camp is lying.
You may poo-hoo Fran's facts on this but you can do a search and backtrack on this topic.
There is no way that can be misunderstood. The new name on search leads right back to where Tammy says it doesn't.

[Donna]

Donna, what makes you think Danny will tell the truth?

Sister, why would he not? All the 3ABN employees, BOD, family members, friends, neighbors, community members, feed store employees, veterinarian, etc. would all know if what he answers is truth or not.

[bonnie]

Donna, what makes you think Danny will tell the truth?

Sister, why would he not? All the 3ABN employees, BOD, family members, friends, neighbors, community members, feed store employees, veterinarian, etc. would all know if what he answers is truth or not.

Maybe someone will ask about ebay. Small detail, but if you lie about the small,you certainly will lie about other bigger issues. You can twist it, pull it, stretch it,but it remains what it is

[Donna]

Donna, what makes you think Danny will tell the truth?

Sister, why would he not? All the 3ABN employees, BOD, family members, friends, neighbors, community members, feed store employees, veterinarian, etc. would all know if what he answers is truth or not.

Maybe someone will ask about ebay. Small detail, but if you lie about the small,you certainly will lie about other bigger issues. You can twist it, pull it, stretch it,but it remains what it is

Bonnie, I am somewhat like you in one respect. I will not just take anyones word, no matter who they are. Where we may differ is that I then prayerfully search out what the truth is with an open mind. I do not allow myself preconceived ideas as to whether or not what I am told does or does not make sense to me nor what experience I have had with a subject or person before.  With people I may be more cautious but still give the benefit of the doubt. Most of us have learned or hopefully learn that truth is sometimes stranger than fiction and so we cannot rely upon our own minds and reasoning. You see it does not matter if we are right or wrong. What matters is the truth.

[bonnie]

Bonnie, I am somewhat like you in one respect. I will not just take anyones word, no matter who they are. Where we may differ is that I then prayerfully search out what the truth is with an open mind.

Let me congratulate you on one of the most Christian put downs I have had in a very long time.

I am impressed that you did that so nicely in the very first sentence and explained what your personal knowledge is of myself and my manner of coming to a design or form a opinion.

The I am a little like you in in one respect that you don't just take someone's word for something and then inferring quite strongly that I would not or could not be depended on to search out the truth. Little convoluted, but that is okay,this whole thing is, can't blame it all on you.

 You know zero,zip, nada as to whether ,I prayerfully search out truth with an open mind before I pass the type of judgement you just have on another. I would suspect if this is the correct Christian behaviour dealing with not judging
another you will be gracious enough to allow me same.

I do not allow myself preconceived ideas as to whether or not what I am told does or does not make sense to me nor what experience I have had with a subject or person before.  With people I may be more cautious but still give the benefit of the doubt. Most of us have learned or hopefully learn that truth is sometimes stranger than fiction and so we cannot rely upon our own minds and reasoning. You see it does not matter if we are right or wrong. What matters is the truth.

My preconceived idea on the horses is from doing this for profit for 17 years.  Truth stranger than fiction doesn't quite fit here and to those of us that have successfully operated this business  know it is nothing but a major cop-out.
This whole post is an exercise in the most convoluted excuse I have run into in a very long time.

Hate to disillusion you but right or wrong still has meaning for a good many of us. You cannot have right without truth.
There are not three sides,right,wrong,and truth, except maybe in your world.

so we cannot rely upon our own minds and reasoning

Enlighten me here, whose mind and  reasoning should I accept.

See you avoided ebay, I would love to see DS asked that and his reply.


edited to correct format

[bonnie]

This one really needs it's own post.

Bonnie, I am somewhat like you in one respect. I will not just take anyones word, no matter who they are. Where we may differ is that I then prayerfully search out what the truth is with an open mind. I do not allow myself preconceived ideas as to whether or not what I am told does or does not make sense to me nor what experience

Again, based on what you posted tell me what you know about me,whether I pray or not . Why you would think my view on the horses is what I am told. You may be partially  right in that,but it was what DS told me that gave me my "preconceived"idea.


No, I don't think you and I are alike in any way save that we are both women. The resemblence stops there.

With people I may be more cautious but still give the benefit of the doubt.

Given that you have told me in essence what is wrong with my reasoning and thinking, your tribute to yourself that you give people the benifit of the doubt,am I to conclude I do not fall into [people] those you favor in such a way .



edited to correct spelling

[Donna]

Bonnie, a lot of problems and misunderstandings stem not so much in what a person has said as much as how the other person chooses to take it.

[bonnie]

Bonnie, a lot of problems and misunderstandings stem not so much in what a person has said as much as how the other person chooses to take it.

That can be true of course,but explain how anyone could take what you said any other way. This answer is again one of those non-answers some of you are getting so good at.



Bonnie, I am somewhat like you in one respect. I will not just take anyones word, no matter who they are. Where we may differ is that I then prayerfully search out what the truth is with an open mind.

You clearly spell out where you and I differ.

[bonnie]

My so called pre-conceived idea regarding DS on the horses came from DS himself in the e-mails. Nor was it pre-conceived.
My preconceived idea on ebay came from ebay itself.

[bonnie]

I can think of no one that can out "christian" another christian when it comes to put-downs.
This is what my dad used to caution  us about.

"Don't worry when the lions are attacking the christians, run when the christians start eating the lions"

Kind of interesting watching which christian side can come with the most creative "christian put-downs"