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[Rosa]

This is another part of the story I do not buy........


With great regret that I am constrained to share the following info with the Advent Talk forum.

. 


I think it was with great delight instead of regret. About the only thing you left out was what they had for breakfast and what time.

I don't read 'any regret' here either Bonnie.

Sounded more to me like another 'Gotcha this time!'

Incidentally, have you never travelled on Sabbath? How do you get to Church? These days, travel can be a lot more complicated than just walking to Church - or hadn't anyone else noticed? 

I personally do not travel to church on a commercial jet, a church service that no one can attend unless they purchase tickets.

Does this sound familiar, Mr Pickle?

"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."



It was a sponsored event not the Sabbath worship service. My understanding is it started at 7pm on both Saturday and Sunday nights.

I don't know, but somehow I think it would have been very difficult for Phipps to either walk or hitch up his horse and buggy after giving the sermon at his own church and arrive on time...

And Pickle think, iis it just because it was a plane? (or that you don't fly anywhere or have people willing to purchase tickets as a benefit for others just to hear you? ) Many also travel by trains or automobiles, or (gasp) even a bus or a subway.. to do the Lord's work, to witness, or to attend Church. What about them? Let's just condemn them all! After all an internal combustion engine is lighting a fire on the Sabbath, and all involves buying gas and or a ticket, so let's just assume that all traveling on the Sabbath  (ncluding Phipps) purchased those things during Sabbath hours..

Maybe that's offbase? Nothing wrong with any of them doing such as long as finances were taken care of before sundown Friday night?

Well then what is Phipps being condemned for? Traveling too many miles? He exceeded a Sabbath day's journey?


This is all such a joke. You need to stop embarrassing yourself.

[bonnie]

 

First, I am not a hob nobber!!! I have never hob nobbed with Grandma!!! I have never had the money to HOBNOB but rather fit the Hoi Poloi...keeps the conflicts of interest to a minimum. And that eliminates the reticence of dealing with issues.

You seem to have this idea that any that do not follow in your foot steps and agree with all you do and say has some reticence about dealing with you or YOUR issues,or somehow has a conflict of interest.

Personally,I find my daddy more right as the years go by. Watch how your friends treat those they are in conflict with,their actions good or bad, are the actions they will use against you when the time is right or you have failed them in someway

Second, I think I have made it clear that I have had a problem with this perpetual premise that Grandma is looking for the truth. The truth is staring her in the face and she still has no clarity. It is farsical. She knows the truth. SAM knows the truth. Many know the truth but ignore it for the comforting none-reality of peace and
safety. Or they simply have financial conflicts. Grandma subscribes to peace and safety as we are told so many many will. And what do you subscribe to?

The truth is staring her in the face and she still has no clarity. This may be because her clarity has improved over time. Maybe she has come to the conclusion that clarity has to be used for both sides. You may want to explain who the many are or how you come up with that.

Non-reality of peace doesn't really seem to be the question. We are not to go about deliberately agitating,seeing what sins we can find and then yelling it from the housetops. I have frequently seen those that do this and when faced with the consequence of their actions, they have that "bible promise that the saints will be persecuted, see it is happening to me because people are afraid of the truth"


And what do you subscribe to?  
I do not subscribe to your way, so am assuming that places me in the camp of those you disdain.  But most that know me, know I do not back up easy. But I also don't do it for fun and call it God's work.

Third, I find your arrogance a more than equal match, so arrogate on. Should be a fun exchange!!!

Am I supposed to be flattered that you find me a match for your "awesome wit and nastiness towards others"??


There is nothing fun about this whole mess. NOTHING, and the fact that you keep acknowledging it is fun shows so much about you. I think you and 3ABN deserve one another.
It is unfortunate that you are so eager to take others with you

[bonnie]

If 3ABN did not come across as being a Seventh-day Adventist channel in my community, then maybe, maybe this would be an appropriate position. But since 3ABN affects my ability to witness in my community if its leadership engages in unbiblical  divorce, lies, private increment, and cover ups, then there is nothing wrong with my voicing my concerns.

Bob,
Read what you are saying, really read it. Do you go around your area making sure every adventist is keeping the sabbath according to your dictates? I can flat out guarantee you that there are those within your community going against what you would want the non-SDA community to see.

How long has it been since the divorce and remarriage?? That didn't even warrent a blip anywhere except what a few have struggled to do.
Voicing your opinion is one thing,I think you have done more than voice an opinion.

Plus remember, I was responsible for promoting 3ABN on billboards and in multiple newspapers around here. Thus I have supported 3ABN.

And that should mean what??  That everyone in your area remembers or knows that you were instrumental for bringing 3ABN to your area. Or they hold you personally accountable for how DS handled his divorce and remarriage.
You are way out of line with some of this stuff, I think you know it and haven't a clue how either to get it back on track or extradite yourself from it. As there is no one going to be willing to let you back on track, you hopefully will think of another alternative.

My point is independent of judges or lawsuits. If there were no judges or lawsuits in the entire world, my point would still be valid.

You are entitled to your opinion. You also can set yourself up as the vanguard of adventism, but don't be surprised when others resent it and come along and knock you off the pedestal that you and Gailon have erected for yourself.

[Bob Pickle]

If 3ABN did not come across as being a Seventh-day Adventist channel in my community, then maybe, maybe this would be an appropriate position. But since 3ABN affects my ability to witness in my community if its leadership engages in unbiblical  divorce, lies, private increment, and cover ups, then there is nothing wrong with my voicing my concerns.

Bob,
Read what you are saying, really read it. Do you go around your area making sure every adventist is keeping the sabbath according to your dictates? I can flat out guarantee you that there are those within your community going against what you would want the non-SDA community to see.

How long has it been since the divorce and remarriage?? That didn't even warrent a blip anywhere except what a few have struggled to do.
Voicing your opinion is one thing,I think you have done more than voice an opinion.

Plus remember, I was responsible for promoting 3ABN on billboards and in multiple newspapers around here. Thus I have supported 3ABN.

And that should mean what??  That everyone in your area remembers or knows that you were instrumental for bringing 3ABN to your area. Or they hold you personally accountable for how DS handled his divorce and remarriage.
You are way out of line with some of this stuff, I think you know it and haven't a clue how either to get it back on track or extradite yourself from it. As there is no one going to be willing to let you back on track, you hopefully will think of another alternative.

My point is independent of judges or lawsuits. If there were no judges or lawsuits in the entire world, my point would still be valid.

You are entitled to your opinion. You also can set yourself up as the vanguard of adventism, but don't be surprised when others resent it and come along and knock you off the pedestal that you and Gailon have erected for yourself.

1) I know of no Adventists in this area who have sponsored tributes to alleged pedophiles and then beamed that tribute over cable TV into the living rooms of the people of my community.

2) You suggested that those who don't support should not say anything. That's why I brought it up.

3) This has nothing to do with anyone in particular being a vanguard for Adventism. We have a right as members of our church to voice our concerns about some too-powerful, unaccountable fellow bringing disrepute upon our faith. And John Lomacang ought to do his job and call him to account in a church business meeting.

[Bob Pickle]

This is another part of the story I do not buy........


With great regret that I am constrained to share the following info with the Advent Talk forum.

. 


I think it was with great delight instead of regret. About the only thing you left out was what they had for breakfast and what time.

I don't read 'any regret' here either Bonnie.

Sounded more to me like another 'Gotcha this time!'

Incidentally, have you never travelled on Sabbath? How do you get to Church? These days, travel can be a lot more complicated than just walking to Church - or hadn't anyone else noticed? 

I personally do not travel to church on a commercial jet, a church service that no one can attend unless they purchase tickets.

Does this sound familiar, Mr Pickle?

"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."



It was a sponsored event not the Sabbath worship service. My understanding is it started at 7pm on both Saturday and Sunday nights.

I don't know, but somehow I think it would have been very difficult for Phipps to either walk or hitch up his horse and buggy after giving the sermon at his own church and arrive on time...

And Pickle think, iis it just because it was a plane? (or that you don't fly anywhere or have people willing to purchase tickets as a benefit for others just to hear you? ) Many also travel by trains or automobiles, or (gasp) even a bus or a subway.. to do the Lord's work, to witness, or to attend Church. What about them? Let's just condemn them all! After all an internal combustion engine is lighting a fire on the Sabbath, and all involves buying gas and or a ticket, so let's just assume that all traveling on the Sabbath  (ncluding Phipps) purchased those things during Sabbath hours..

Maybe that's offbase? Nothing wrong with any of them doing such as long as finances were taken care of before sundown Friday night?

Well then what is Phipps being condemned for? Traveling too many miles? He exceeded a Sabbath day's journey?


This is all such a joke. You need to stop embarrassing yourself.

Aren't you changing the subject a bit? Ossie talked about traveling to church on the Sabbath, and I was responding to that point.

[bonnie]

1) I know of no Adventists in this area who have sponsored tributes to alleged pedophiles and then beamed that tribute over cable TV into the living rooms of the people of my community.

And how many of those living rooms had the knowledge of the allegations concerning TS??
Exactly what is it you think you can do after drawing the attention to it you have so far??

I watched for a year the praise, the slaps on the back,the amens to the pastor's words,with the conference president sitting in the pew. With knowledge of my complaint and as we found out other knowledge in the personal file doing absolutely nothing.
This is not going to ruffle to many feathers. You have put it out there,nothing more you can do.
There should have been an uproar from parents  of students at AUC that could be heard in every conference. Barely a flutter.
This is not current as in yesterday,attention spans are short on this, it is typically it is called forgivness. And if you don't offer blanket forgivness, tough for you, the masses won't listen



2) You suggested that those who don't support should not say anything. That's why I brought  it up.

I doubt I am the reason you brought this up. The ones that support DS with money have the most to say. It is the interest of SDA's in general concerning the alleged wrongs, but first and this you cannot seem to grasp, most will not care at this point. If the IRS has exonerated 3ABN, that is all that will matter. Personal conduct is not a biggy.


3) This has nothing to do with anyone in particular being a vanguard for Adventism. We have a right as members of our church to voice our concerns about some too-powerful, unaccountable fellow bringing disrepute upon our faith. And John Lomacang ought to do his job and call him to account in a church business meeting.


We also have a obligation not to be digging for so much dirt on any and all that might in some way be connected or support 3ABN. Be careful that you are not the one that is as guilty of what you accuse 3ABN of and bringing disrepute upon our faith

[bonnie]

I personally do not travel to church on a commercial jet, a church service that no one can attend unless they purchase tickets.

No, we don't trave to church on a commercial jet because there is no need.

This whole topic was transparent from the get go. It was not the best move to be making if you wanted to keep what support you have left.
I may not keep the sabbath according to you dictates, I may even not keep according to you in front of non-SDA's. Absolutely none of your business. If it bugs you  enough take it to my church elders and the conference.

[Fair Havens]

Reading these posts, what seemed to me started as a light chuckle has grown into a raucous rabbit jumping arm flailing guffaw     welling deep up from the bowels of a certain DS! It's really disappointing. Seems Bob and Gailon will have to 'Stand like the brave' and 'Go, valiantly go' all by their twosome!

[Chrissie]

This is another part of the story I do not buy........


With great regret that I am constrained to share the following info with the Advent Talk forum.

. 


I think it was with great delight instead of regret. About the only thing you left out was what they had for breakfast and what time.

I don't read 'any regret' here either Bonnie.

Sounded more to me like another 'Gotcha this time!'

Incidentally, have you never travelled on Sabbath? How do you get to Church? These days, travel can be a lot more complicated than just walking to Church - or hadn't anyone else noticed? 

I personally do not travel to church on a commercial jet, a church service that no one can attend unless they purchase tickets.

I guess the 'purchasing tickets' is the sticking point. I have had to fly on Sabbath, but those tickets have been purchased on line and in advance, and it's not something that I make a practice of doing.

There is a phrase I often hear in Australia, and that is "the tyranny of distance". I think that other Ozzies here could back that up. City living is very different to 'country living' and while one tries to avoid such travelling, there are Pastors who have such long distances between appointments, that is the only way they can reach the 'outback'.

[Ozzie]

This is another part of the story I do not buy........


With great regret that I am constrained to share the following info with the Advent Talk forum.

. 


I think it was with great delight instead of regret. About the only thing you left out was what they had for breakfast and what time.

I don't read 'any regret' here either Bonnie.

Sounded more to me like another 'Gotcha this time!'

Incidentally, have you never travelled on Sabbath? How do you get to Church? These days, travel can be a lot more complicated than just walking to Church - or hadn't anyone else noticed? 

I personally do not travel to church on a commercial jet, a church service that no one can attend unless they purchase tickets.

Does this sound familiar, Mr Pickle?

"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican."



It was a sponsored event not the Sabbath worship service. My understanding is it started at 7pm on both Saturday and Sunday nights.

I don't know, but somehow I think it would have been very difficult for Phipps to either walk or hitch up his horse and buggy after giving the sermon at his own church and arrive on time...

And Pickle think, iis it just because it was a plane? (or that you don't fly anywhere or have people willing to purchase tickets as a benefit for others just to hear you? ) Many also travel by trains or automobiles, or (gasp) even a bus or a subway.. to do the Lord's work, to witness, or to attend Church. What about them? Let's just condemn them all! After all an internal combustion engine is lighting a fire on the Sabbath, and all involves buying gas and or a ticket, so let's just assume that all traveling on the Sabbath  (ncluding Phipps) purchased those things during Sabbath hours..

Maybe that's offbase? Nothing wrong with any of them doing such as long as finances were taken care of before sundown Friday night?

Well then what is Phipps being condemned for? Traveling too many miles? He exceeded a Sabbath day's journey?


This is all such a joke. You need to stop embarrassing yourself.

Back again Rosa? Long time, no see!

And... you have taken what Bob said, totally out of context.

Was he not referring to my point about travel? 
 
Guess you reply is about what one can expect from your ilk though. 

[Snoopy]

You bring up a question I have struggle with for many years now, Chrissie.

I grew up in a very conservative SDA family.  I am very blessed, and I don't want this post to be misconstrued as complaining!  But I have never quite understood this mentality, whereby as long as one purchases their tickets to an event or for travel or whatever, prior to the Sabbath hours that all is OK.  I am NOT finding fault with those who think that way, please understand.  But I just don't get it.  The Fourth Commandment tells us not to do any work on the Sabbath - not only us, but our sons, daughters, manservants, maidservants, our animals...even the stranger within our gates.  It doesn't say "thou shalt not transact money on the Sabbath" or that "as long as you pay for something ahead of time it doesn't matter if someone else has to work during the Sabbath hours to make it happen".  Regardless of when I might pay for something like an airline ticket or even going to the zoo, it doesn't change the fact that someone else (ie, "the stranger within my gates") has to work to provide me that service.  In the zoo example, obviously someone has to care for the animals over the Sabbath (an "essential" service) just like hospital staff, but just because I might have bought my ticket on Thursday, a zoo employee still has to be there to accept my ticket and let me in to the grounds.  Aren't they working?  And regardless of when a commercial airline ticket is purchased, if the flight takes place on Sabbath aren't the "strangers within my gates" working to provide me a service?  This continues to puzzle me...

I guess the 'purchasing tickets' is the sticking point. I have had to fly on Sabbath, but those tickets have been purchased on line and in advance, and it's not something that I make a practice of doing.

There is a phrase I often hear in Australia, and that is "the tyranny of distance". I think that other Ozzies here could back that up. City living is very different to 'country living' and while one tries to avoid such travelling, there are Pastors who have such long distances between appointments, that is the only way they can reach the 'outback'.

[Chrissie]

You bring up a question I have struggle with for many years now, Chrissie.

I grew up in a very conservative SDA family.  I am very blessed, and I don't want this post to be misconstrued as complaining!  But I have never quite understood this mentality, whereby as long as one purchases their tickets to an event or for travel or whatever, prior to the Sabbath hours that all is OK.  I am NOT finding fault with those who think that way, please understand.  But I just don't get it.  The Fourth Commandment tells us not to do any work on the Sabbath - not only us, but our sons, daughters, manservants, maidservants, our animals...even the stranger within our gates.  It doesn't say "thou shalt not transact money on the Sabbath" or that "as long as you pay for something ahead of time it doesn't matter if someone else has to work during the Sabbath hours to make it happen".  Regardless of when I might pay for something like an airline ticket or even going to the zoo, it doesn't change the fact that someone else (ie, "the stranger within my gates") has to work to provide me that service.  In the zoo example, obviously someone has to care for the animals over the Sabbath (an "essential" service) just like hospital staff, but just because I might have bought my ticket on Thursday, a zoo employee still has to be there to accept my ticket and let me in to the grounds.  Aren't they working?  And regardless of when a commercial airline ticket is purchased, if the flight takes place on Sabbath aren't the "strangers within my gates" working to provide me a service?  This continues to puzzle me...

I guess the 'purchasing tickets' is the sticking point. I have had to fly on Sabbath, but those tickets have been purchased on line and in advance, and it's not something that I make a practice of doing.

There is a phrase I often hear in Australia, and that is "the tyranny of distance". I think that other Ozzies here could back that up. City living is very different to 'country living' and while one tries to avoid such travelling, there are Pastors who have such long distances between appointments, that is the only way they can reach the 'outback'.

I HEAR what you're saying Snoopy and understand what you're saying.

There was a time when our children were small, that I thought it was so terribly wrong to rinse out their blankets or dress or whatever, if they had vomited on it. I'm not talking about a full 'laundry cycle', but rather just rinsing the 'sick' off it and leaving it till after Sabbath for the 'proper cleanup'. I no longer believe that such basic hygiene is going to see me burn for eternity.

Likewise, in regard to travel, I do not think that is OK if it is for social purposes, to 'pay in advance' as you are indicating. However, as I've lived in the far outback of Australia for so many years, I realise that if the Word of God is to be preached in various areas, where there may only be one Pastor/Elder/Preacher assigned to such a vast, barren area, more unusual actions need to be taken.

Most try to arrange their schedules to make sure that they travelling in that way on Sabbath, but I know of specific Ministires, which in the past have had only one leader for Australia, and it was absolutely impossible for him to cover all of Australia, had he not at times taken a flight in between towns or even states. How for example, does a Pastor or other worker who has Sabbath duties in (for example) Western Australia, manage to arrive in Melbourne for a 9am Sunday morning meeting in Melbourne and then perhaps, be in Brisbane by Monday morning? Absolutely impossible, unless one travels.

[GrandmaNettie]

3) This has nothing to do with anyone in particular being a vanguard for Adventism. We have a right as members of our church to voice our concerns about some too-powerful, unaccountable fellow bringing disrepute upon our faith. And John Lomacang ought to do his job and call him to account in a church business meeting.

I think it would be far more appropriate for the pastor in Gailon's home church, rather than Pastor John Lomacang, to call this unaccountable fellow to account for bringing disrepute upon our faith.   Other than that, yes, I would agree with you.  Gailon is way out of control.

If you do not financially support 3ABN,if you do not sit on the board,you have nothing to say about how it operates, once you have made your problems with 3ABN clear to the board or whoever.

If 3ABN did not come across as being a Seventh-day Adventist channel in my community, then maybe, maybe this would be an appropriate position. But since 3ABN affects my ability to witness in my community if its leadership engages in unbiblical divorce, lies, private inurement, and cover ups, then there is nothing wrong with my voicing my concerns.

Plus remember, I was responsible for promoting 3ABN on billboards and in multiple newspapers around here. Thus I have supported 3ABN.

The SOP is not a mandatory law. Many disregard EW as anything from delusional to you name it. It is not something you can force thru this lawsuit. Doesn't matter who started it, much of this a judge will not even hear I don't think.

My point is independent of judges or lawsuits. If there were no judges or lawsuits in the entire world, my point would still be valid.

Bob, give people of the world who view 3abn a little more credit for having the ability to observe, think and draw their own conclusions. .  If they are unable to do so, they will be blown about by any wind of doctrine anyway.  Faith is a journey that each individual begins in their own sphere and follows at their own pace.  You don't have to tell them what to think or spoon feed them your interpretation of our standards or doctrines.  The Holy Spirit has that covered.  Your job, anyone's job, is to reflect God's character as we love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds and spirits and love those around us (including the sinful) as we love ourselves.

"Adventism" is not a one-size-fits-all king of religion.  We have conservatives, liberals, traditionals, progressives, historics, pew warmers, those on fire, those reaching back into the Old Testament to follow the Jewish rituals and festivals and everything in between, including sinners.... lots of sinners.

If I was not strong in my own faith and connection with God, the behavior I have seen from you, Gailon and others who feel it is okay to treat fellow believers with such contempt would start me looking for another denomination.  The face of adventism you are modeling to whatever bit of the world is reading here is truly a sad one.

You worry about the example of 3abn.... far better to worry about  your own example and the negative impact you are having on others.

[Snoopy]

What a haughty, holier-than-thou statement to make, GrandmaNettie.  Did it ever occur to you that YOU might have the same impact on others that you accuse Bob of??  The term "hypocrite" comes to mind...

Bob, give people of the world who view 3abn a little more credit for having the ability to observe, think and draw their own conclusions. .  If they are unable to do so, they will be blown about by any wind of doctrine anyway.  Faith is a journey that each individual begins in their own sphere and follows at their own pace.  You don't have to tell them what to think or spoon feed them your interpretation of our standards or doctrines.  The Holy Spirit has that covered.  Your job, anyone's job, is to reflect God's character as we love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds and spirits and love those around us (including the sinful) as we love ourselves.

"Adventism" is not a one-size-fits-all king of religion.  We have conservatives, liberals, traditionals, progressives, historics, pew warmers, those on fire, those reaching back into the Old Testament to follow the Jewish rituals and festivals and everything in between, including sinners.... lots of sinners.

If I was not strong in my own faith and connection with God, the behavior I have seen from you, Gailon and others who feel it is okay to treat fellow believers with such contempt would start me looking for another denomination.  The face of adventism you are modeling to whatever bit of the world is reading here is truly a sad one.

You worry about the example of 3abn.... far better to worry about  your own example and the negative impact you are having on others.

[Artiste]

Thank you, Snoopy...