Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Let's back up a little. I have said that it was wrong for Shelley Quinn and company to trash Alyssa Moore's statement about Danny's alleged sexual assault in global TV while claiming to not be defending themselves. I have definitely made statements like that.

Perhaps there have been times when I have addressed the Danny defenders' language and tone, but I don't recall.

I have stated that certain apologies should be made, and I have demonstrated that I am willing to do that myself.

Worshiping vipers? Yes, I think Gailon should not have said that.

I can go you one better. Gailon was wrong, there is no thinking or two ways about it.

Bonnie,

I do have disdain for those who pretend to look for truth and hobnob with those who support Linda but then secretly work at cross purposes.

I am surprised you did not take exception to Mahta Hari. That implication is clearer and more precise. One who works both sides to their advantage and purposes?

I have never asked anyone to appreciate or agree with my style of tackling issues and I have never complained that anyone filed suit against me. It is true that following the collapse of the ecclesiastical tribunal with ASI that I realized the only option was litigation. Our requests to meet with the board and explain our evidence and concerns has also been spurned. What other option was available as the battle ratcheted up and we met the bully pulpit of the Thursday 3ABNToday Live with a website? It was clear they would try to shut us down. Litigation was the only option...simple analysis. And I did indeed begin preparation to meet the threat head on.

It is also true that I do not fear or avoid litigation...if their is a battle to be fought, then I will fight it. I have made it clear that war has it's casualties. This is a war, a long protracted war that just happens to cross the paths of peace loving and submissive Seventh-day Adventists. I have never fit the mold and while born and bred an SDA I also was inculcated with the premise that if you meet goliath, in or out of the church, challenge him!!!

It is regretable that you find it so objectionable and I have long recognized that SDA's do not appreciate direct conflict and straight talk, clearly you included.

As to the banning of SAM, well I find it a great opportunity to ask questions of a person clearly very close to the seat of power...it is always great to see what the answers will be. A Good intelligence source lost, in my opinion. And frankly, your response was uncalled for. How is that for arrogance!!!

Rest assured, I am non-discriminating. If I do not agree with your view I let you know...I believe that is still constitutional.

On the other hand, I come from a background that allows vigorous debate and then shake hands, eat lunch together go away friends, something that SDA's find impossible.

GailonArthur Joy

[bonnie]

ADMIN HAT ON

A reminder to all that Administrative Staff actions are not to be discussed in public topics; you are to make your concerns known to the Administration by PM.

ADMIN HAT OFF

I do have disdain for those who pretend to look for truth and hobnob with those who support Linda but then secretly work at cross purposes.

Just your explanation in the first sentence is skewed as far as I am concerned. Do you really have such a high opinion of yourself that those you have accused of being turncoats were actually deliberately hobnobbing with you. I don't think that you are that high on the scale. I could be wrong, have been before.
Because someone does not support what you wish, or from the first have had a clear and unchanging agenda you claim disdain. Perhaps you are having a problem because some have come to feel disdain for you
 

I am surprised you did not take exception to Mahta Hari. That implication is clearer and more precise. One who works both sides to their advantage and purposes?

As I told Sam I think it was, you do not need to fear my comprehension of the written word or what some of the more cutesy quotes are referring to. I do quite well in reading comprehension

I have never asked anyone to appreciate or agree with my style of tackling issues and I have never complained that anyone filed suit against me. It is true that following the collapse of the ecclesiastical tribunal with ASI that I realized the only option was litigation. Our requests to meet with the board and explain our evidence and concerns has also been spurned. What other option was available as the battle ratcheted up and we met the bully pulpit of the Thursday 3ABNToday Live with a website? It was clear they would try to shut us down. Litigation was the only option...simple analysis. And I did indeed begin preparation to meet the threat head on.

I have read to many times your comments and those of others referring to your wish to be sued. In that I have not heard you deny that.
Frankly, I think you took the opportunity long before,preparing if you should get your wish and force a lawsuit.
I think you will meet it head on, sideways, from behind, anyway at all to prove what a mighty warrior you are

It is also true that I do not fear or avoid litigation...if their is a battle to be fought, then I will fight it. I have made it clear that war has it's casualties. This is a war, a long protracted war that just happens to cross the paths of peace loving and submissive Sevenths Adventists. I have never fit the mold and while born and bred an SDA I also was inculcated with the premise that if you meet Goliath, in or out of the church, challenge him.

Sometimes if Goliath is headed peacefully in another direction, David might be wise to let him go. I for one do not believe God has bestowed on you the obligation of fighting every battle you can find. You have also IMO made it quite clear you enjoy the idea of causalities. Been a long time, a very long time since anyone used the word submissive to describe me. Because you have declared it a long war, does not necessarily mean that it will be. Or that it should be.
Do I think that there are things wrong concerning 3ABN, you betcha,but it has lost it's focus for many and has become about you and DS.

It is regretable that you find it so objectionable and I have long recognized that Sada's do not appreciate direct conflict and straight talk, clearly you included.

No, Gailon, you and your so called straight talk does not frighten or impress me. I don't find straight talk objectionable. What you put out there in your post was not straight talk, it was demeaning and snarling at one that finds she can no longer support you and your tactics.
Clearly you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about concerning me. Do I appreciate direct conflict,no I am not an idiot. Will I stand my ground in direct conflict brought to me,Yes. Am I going to go out looking for it,find it and then huff and puff as If I am going to blow down the house of the opposition. NO!!!!!!!

As to the banning of SAM, well I find it a great opportunity to ask questions of a person clearly very close to the seat of power...it is always great to see what the answers will be. A Good intelligence source lost, in my opinion. And frankly, your response was uncalled for. How is that for arrogance!!!

Last part of this quote first. Sometimes you believe you are showing a rather proud arrogance when in reality it is something else.  Well, I guess we are even,I believe many things concerning you are uncalled for. That is not meant as arrogance, I will let you revel in that, to me it is just fact.
Nor do I care if Sam is banned or not, as it is quite likely he is here with another identity. BUT, if Sam were banned because of what he said, then it is puzzling why your rudeness and arrogance is so appreciated.

Rest assured, I am indiscriminating. If I do not agree with your view I let you know...I believe that is still constitutional.

I wasn't losing any rest over it. It isn't the letting someone know,it is rudeness ,sarcasm,and scorn heaped on those that are not following in the mighty footsteps in front of them.
Many things are constitutional, has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said, has nothing to do with that making any kind of behaviour acceptable.

On the other hand, I come from a background that allows vigorous debate and then shake hands, eat lunch together go away friends, something that SDA's find impossible.

The problem is when you expect someone to shake your hand before you return them to the vipers they worship. You want people to shake your hand, not after a debate, but a scathing,inappropriate ,nasty exchange.
Others do tend to shy away from conflict, so what is that to you?? Do theydeserve your scorn and disdain because they have a different personality than you approve of.

You may think you are the mighty David with his little rock, but you have some stretching to do. Seems to me David was not as arrogant about it.

[SDAminister]

So, are you saying that Elder Phipps, the founder and president of US Dream Academy, had no input as to how and when the tickets were to be sold, the proceeds of which were to his organization's full benefit?

No, that is not what I said. Had this been brought to his attention beforehand or even after this was planned,I am sure he could have had input. The fact he didn't would tell me he probably was not concerned about the time frame and selling tickest. Or, it could have been a simple oversight in planning.

I don't suppose you'd be interested to know how many times over the past few years such "oversights in planning" have occurred?

SDAminister

[SDAminister]

I have my doubts as to SDA Minister, being a minister of the SDA church. I seriously doubt any SDA minister would have dragged out such a detailed agenda of another pastor.

bonnie,
-My user name is "SDAminister", not "SDA Minister". And for all the world may care I'd could be an optician, guidance counselor, engineer or a truck driver. I might even be a minister! But that's not all the point. What if my user name were "Adam"? Would it make a difference in Elder Phipps conduct or your reaction to it?

-The agenda was not that detailed. The only bit of new information about Elder Phipps was that he held a concert on Sabbath that you had to pay to get into. And the bit about the Sabbath travel. Which reminds me, I spoke with a member of his church on this. According to this member, Elder Phipps usually preaches his sermon at Palm Bay SDA, and then leaves immediately after to catch his flight for that evening's booking.

-And BTW, if you doubt than an SDA minister would not have drug out something on another, please attend a few Executive Committee sessions or Union constituency meetings or GC sessions. You'd be surprised what gets drug out, unfortunately.

blessings,
SDAminister

[bonnie]

I don't suppose you'd be interested to know how many times over the past few years such "oversights in planning" have occurred?

SDAminister

I don't know how many times there has been an error in planning. Further more I really don't care. I believe this is because of the 3ABN and a tie to this pastor.

[SDAminister]

I don't suppose you'd be interested to know how many times over the past few years such "oversights in planning" have occurred?

SDAminister

I don't know how many times there has been an error in planning. Further more I really don't care. I believe this is because of the 3ABN and a tie to this pastor.

Of course it's because of 3ABN. If Elder Gilley started charging admission to hear his Sabbath sermons, wouldn't that hurt the work of 3ABN? Why is it any different with Elder Phipps? Or, do you agree that what Phipps did was wrong but you just believe that I handled it in the wrong way?

[bonnie]

I don't suppose you'd be interested to know how many times over the past few years such "oversights in planning" have occurred?

SDAminister

As I said, I don't really care, but I am sure there is a tally somewhere that keeps score

Of course it's because of 3ABN. If Elder Gilley started charging admission to hear his Sabbath sermons, wouldn't that hurt the work of 3ABN? Why is it any different with Elder Phipps? Or, do you agree that what Phipps did was wrong but you just believe that I handled it in the wrong way?

Would I have set it up that way,NO
And I think you know what I meant. I believe what a lot of people do is wrong, but not my job to straighten everyone out. You would have to talk with the conference office I would imagine. But I doubt seriously they would care.

The opportunity to address or stop some of the alleged serious issues that caused concern over 3ABN has been lost.

The molestation charges, that is not that much of a cause for concern. Our denominational leaders,conference president's have covered up and made it almost impossible for a "victim" to be heard. It is starting to change a very little, but not because of a real concern, but the internet. Victims of this type of behaviour find they are not the only ones.
Divorce, whether by God's guideline or not is a "So What" as is a remarriage without biblical grounds.
LS and the treatment she appears to have received. No one cares. In the minds of most LS has committed adultery,and the ever patient, ever forgiving DS is still at the helm and he will remain as such a time as he shoots himself in the foot big time.
IRS,most will believe that DS was so very special the IRS issued an apology for even doing an audit. I do not believe that,but just a little thing to show how special DS is by DS. What the resolution was I don't  know or care, I also do not believe the "Not One Infraction,Not One.

The followers of DS are alive and well, doing what they can to keep this loving christian man before as many eyes as possible.
Those that feel Gailon is right, has to be more than right to make an impact and that is gone.
What will be seen and create a adverse reaction is something like this.   Or the obvious pleasure and enjoyment that Gailon clearly admits to over this lawsuit.
It is not helpful to answer or make every statement in this mess in overdramatized sarcastic gleeful way.

Nor are you going to impress most with your diligence cataloging every action,every word . Looking under every rock to make sure you got it all.

I am sure many will disagree,but what may have had an impact, has been lost on most people now.

[irspro]

I don't suppose you'd be interested to know how many times over the past few years such "oversights in planning" have occurred?

SDAminister

I don't know how many times there has been an error in planning. Further more I really don't care. I believe this is because of the 3ABN and a tie to this pastor.

Of course it's because of 3ABN. If Elder Gilley started charging admission to hear his Sabbath sermons, wouldn't that hurt the work of 3ABN? Why is it any different with Elder Phipps? Or, do you agree that what Phipps did was wrong but you just believe that I handled it in the wrong way?

Query your specificity as to timing and manner.  It doesn't appear you are being challenged on the subject when some merely attempt to grab the steering wheel and blame the problem on others or change the direction of the discussion to more about "steering over by Sally's house" as I have oft heard.  It has been observed that blaming other for my errors is probably the most effective in "salving my conscience" next to "steering to less important conversation where interested participants may need to find a bit of intospection on their possible similar conduct.

My professional employment and practice worked best when I was able to determine the most facts in a minimum of yet reasonable amount of time before mental capacity was affefted by frustration.  This same success was accomplished in both of my examinations to gain professional status.  Keep in mind that frustrations can be caused by over planning rather than proper planning.  I have found that specific allegations need to be directly connected to the most direct valid proof available rather than peice-mealed where an audiance is likely to be diluted.

SDAminister, you appeared to lose support with being too specific with "appelations" and "travel scheule arrivals" before the "church member" comments you determined of "preaching schedules were associated with travel departures."  I find your final product or overall observations fairly reliable as I used many times in a tax audit where the taxpayer was so chagrined they stated they needed no further professional assistance in my determination of the  additional tax due.

A lot of practcal psychology was developed as I audited taxpayers while you may have thought I examined tax returns.  I soon found you learned more about what was done as well as what wasn't done with an informal atmosphere rather than allowing the taxpayer slip into an antagonistic frame of mind.  It doesn't hurt taxpayer's attitudes to know that the examiner is looked on more rigidly than the examined.  If you  "ass u me"  in an antagonistic environment, you are most likely to do "just that!

A practical example is presented to prove that it is better to let "actions" prove "alleged facts."  The President and sole shareholder of an asphalt paving corporation seemed proup to inform me that the general business model was to to have depend heavily on sub-contractors for an eleven month window while using the last two weeks of December and first two weeks of January for vacations and machine maintenance.   The President had no problem disclosing that he took an around-the-world tour during this four-week window.  All this information was disclosed in the first 15 minutes of our conversation while I mostly listened with an occasional query.  

During the hour's conversiation I was able to compliment on the successful business model he had developed as well as comment on the overall feeling of the public on taxation.  The President and accountant seemed pleased to present me with the corporate monthly general ledger.  In a matter of minutes, I was able to determine a cut-off problem with a December 20 of the prior year mailing of $1,500,000 contract receipt deposited on January 20 and reported that year.  With the greatest of ease, it was determined that the corporation deducted what appeared to be "an around the world trip potentially not reasonably associated with carrying on the asphalt business by the President.  A basic perusal of the corporate tax return noted a sizable credit for Non-Highway Use Fuel Tax.  The corporate books were unique with red-ink entries reducing a "fuel expense account" for fuel sold to sub-contractors which did not allow the corporation to deduct the credit coupled with the assessment of a 200% penalty.  I never discussed the merits of my audit until near the end of the audit so as not to impede cooperation and work flow.

This could easily be one of my last messages as none appeared to be interested in domestic relations, divorce, spiritual adultry, etc under this subject.

[bonnie]

Query your specificity as to timing and manner.  It doesn't appear you are being challenged on the subject when some merely attempt to grab the steering wheel and blame the problem on others or change the direction of the discussion to more about "steering over by Sally's house" as I have oft heard.  It has been observed that blaming other for my errors is probably the most effective in "salving my conscience" next to "steering to less important conversation where interested participants may need to find a bit of introspection on their possible similar conduct.

Let me ask you,Do you have a problem with speaking plainly or do you deliberately phrase things in such a manner that deliberately leaves what is said unclear and rambling

My professional employment and practice worked best when I was able to determine the most facts in a minimum of yet reasonable amount of time before mental capacity was affected by frustration.  This same success was accomplished in both of my examinations to gain professional status.  Keep in mind that frustrations can be caused by over planning rather than proper planning.  I have found that specific allegations need to be directly connected to the most direct valid proof available rather than piecemeal where an audience is likely to be diluted.

Happy to hear you were so successful in your career.

SDAminister, you appeared to lose support with being too specific with "appellations" and "travel schedule arrivals" before the "church member" comments you determined of "preaching schedules were associated with travel departures."  I find your final product or overall observations fairly reliable as I used many times in a tax audit where the taxpayer was so chagrined they stated they needed no further professional assistance in my determination of the additional tax due.

It really doesn't matter how reliable SDAdministers information on travel and preaching schedules were concerned

It was the "With regret" part. It came across to me as With regret I have to inform you that my personal scrutiny and digging for information against 3ABN has yielded  other area's that can be used

A practical example is presented to prove that it is better to let "actions" prove "alleged facts."  The President and sole shareholder of an asphalt paving corporation seemed proup to inform me that the general business model was to to have depend heavily on subcontractors for an eleven month window while using the last two weeks of December and first two weeks of January for vacations and machine maintenance.   The President had no problem disclosing that he took an  tour during this four-week window.  All this information was disclosed in the first 15 minutes of our conversation while I mostly listened with an occasional query.

It really is to bad for those that felt very strongly that IRS illegalities had occurred you were not doing the audit. By the time you were done rambling and talking,DS would more than likely told you more than even you wanted to hear.
 

This could easily be one of my last messages as none appeared to be interested in domestic relations, divorce, spiritual adultery, etc under this subject.

Perhaps you would not find so much disinterest if you began posting in a clearer way.
Your posts are reasonable in length, but in content,you say much that can be taken two ways or more sometime,or to show your superior ability as an auditor.
Some things in your post suggest you may not even be or have been an auditor

spelling corrected

[irspro]

Didn't expect any more from a self-justification type that mostly will tell you more and more about less and less and to the extent you know everything about nothing!

Kinda reminds me of the off-shoot preacher adept at shooting-off  that floated through the community and accused of child rape through hypnotism who responded to a fellow preacher that he was "not convicted" rather than a simple "yes or no!

The same preacher had formerly entered my home, somewhat uninvited, in one door and politely invited to exit through a different door.  The preacher declined my invitation to exit the nearest door and instead displayed in such an inordinate manner that he would only exit through the door he entered.  The preacher is now in an alleged disabled mental state west of the Mississippi River.  I hereby present a query of "superstitious conduct!

Beware of independent ministries alleging new light and heightened morals supported by low education\wit!

[bonnie]

Didn't expect any more from a self-justification type that mostly will tell you more and more about less and less and to the extent you know everything about nothing!

Kinda reminds me of the off-shoot preacher adept at shooting-off  that floated through the community and accused of child rape through hypnotism who responded to a fellow preacher that he was "not convicted" rather than a simple "yes or no!

The same preacher had formerly entered my home, somewhat uninvited, in one door and politely invited to exit through a different door.  The preacher declined my invitation to exit the nearest door and instead displayed in such an inordinate manner that he would only exit through the door he entered.  The preacher is now in an alleged disabled mental state west of the Mississippi River.  I hereby present a query of "superstitious conduct!

Beware of independent ministries alleging new light and heightened morals supported by low education\wit!

Good, I see we really are on the same page. I usually am very wary of independent ministries.  Just as I am with those that enjoy the game, "I Spy Sin, Your It"

You know, I thought Fergus Falls was closed. Perhaps it would be interesting to drop by and see if I can visit him


I am a little confused here, why would you desire a simple yes or no as one that seems incapable or unwilling to resond in that manner

[irspro]

Jumping to conclusions with moronic messages is esentially equivalent to "ass u me!"

[bonnie]

Jumping to conclusions with moronic messages is esentially equivalent to "ass u me!"

I don't think that was nice, do you?? Posting moronic posts that elicit a moronic response might have the same
equivalency.


I am assuming one of us needs to play nice or we could do this all day long. I will let you have this particular sandbox

[SDAminister]

I don't suppose you'd be interested to know how many times over the past few years such "oversights in planning" have occurred?

SDAminister

As I said, I don't really care, but I am sure there is a tally somewhere that keeps score

Twice you've said that you don't care. And nearly every other post in this topic is by you. Are you sure you don't care? Nothing wrong with that mind you. 

SDAminister

[irspro]

Don't assume anything when you put out for public display any message, short of truth.  This warning is heightened when using proper names or specific references.  Even the truth may not save you from the filing of an action; however, it it your only defense, per se!

Don't live in lala land thinking the IRS will ever apologize, even remotely, for any examination period.  Don't feebly mistake my use of the term, "period." I never had a need or opportunity to return even any original document other than that of suspected fraud of "backdating" which can be documented through ink dating.  Let me humbly advise you that any contact with taxpayers while using language such as, this is a "regular" audit.  The taxpayer should be left to draw their own conclusions.

Don't be voodooed into believing any lawyer's letter as an "official conclusion" of any federal tax audit!