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[irspro]

Where this whole thing leaves me cold and it begins to look like "I gotcha" mentality was when you threw in the concern by MN conference.

I never said "MN conference" I said, "members in the Minnesota conference".

SDAminister

Some may have missed your basic theme of BOD ethics as related to the Dacalogue.  Some may have chosen to be a little more discriminating when you added Proper Appelations in the alleged honest facts.  Keep your chin up so long as you understand that "avoidance of sin" is between God, your Creator, and you; whereas, the "avoidance of the appearance of evil is beween you and how your neighbor surmises which God and your Creator was alrady factually aware.

Most of my ethics came from free rulers in school with the Golden Rule imprinted coupled with a grandmother of my friends sticking her finger in each of our faces with the admonition that "be sure your sins will find you out!

=====

Edited to Separate post from quoted post/s.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

1. The concert did not benefit Phipps personally. It was a charity event.
2. Maybe he could have done it differently but this is covered by the first part of the 10 commandments-the ones between God and man not between one person and another. He wasn't being cruel to anyone. Was not oppressing them by forcing them to work on Sabbath. And I think God can take care of himself.
3. If Phipps thought it was wrong, he would probably sneaked around and tried to hide it. He didn't. I am concerned about those who do sneak around and try to hide things while wanting some others to think they do not do these things.
4. I know some people eat out on Sabbath. I don't and do not not feel this is right but I don't gossip about those who do. It is between them and God. Maybe I do things that other people do not do. I get my mail on sabbath and read it. When I was a teenager at home and the only SDA in my family I took the bus to and from meetings at the church on Friday night. It was the only way I could get there. I was a nursing assistant and I worked on Sabbath when I couldn't avoid it.
5. This isn't a Theocracy and we don't stone people do we?
6. If we want people to take our genuine concerns seriously, we have to be fair and reasonable not attributing the worst motives to others. We cannot read minds.

Child,

Take some time and look at those Dream Academy 990's and then DARE to come back here and tell us again that the concert charities do not personally benefit Whintley Phipps!!!

Oh, I get it, he picked up his paycheck on Friday, therefore it dod not benefit him on the Sabbath...is that the argument???

Child, grow up before you get "LEFT BEHIND".

Gailon Arthur Joy

Hypocrisy runs wild, but this is the wildest!!!

[Rosa]

Where this whole thing leaves me cold and it begins to look like "I gotcha" mentality was when you threw in the concern by MN conference.

I never said "MN conference" I said, "members in the Minnesota conference".

SDAminister

Some may have missed your basic theme of BOD ethics as related to the Dacalogue.  Some may have chosen to be a little more discriminating when you added Proper Appelations in the alleged honest facts.  Keep your chin up so long as you understand that "avoidance of sin" is between God, your Creator, and you; whereas, the "avoidance of the appearance of evil is beween you and how your neighbor surmises which God and your Creator was alrady factually aware.

Most of my ethics came from free rulers in school with the Golden Rule imprinted coupled with a grandmother of my friends sticking her finger in each of our faces with the admonition that "be sure your sins will find you out!

Speaking for myself I hope I am "factually aware" and don't fall into the "factually challenged" group.  I didn't miss "the BOD ethics as related to the Decalogue theme"

That would be very hard to do. It is a broken record theme on this forum. Many just grasping at straws and desparately trying to paint 3abn as guilty, this time by attacking Wintley Phipps.

No doubt it's the repetitive theme that has sdaminister sounding just like Pickle now also.

BTW I fixed your reply via guote box. Don't feel bad, many don't quite get it. For example, Daryl is always having to correct Joy's missives also..

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Friends, people, whoever,

Give me a large time break! Wake up!

I am reminded of the time Jesus and his disciples came to town and were there on Sabbath, and after worship service no one, not a one invited them to Sabbath dinner as the rules of hospitality and of the time usually dictated, especially with a visiting Rabbi which jesus certainly was.

So Jesus and his disciples travelled on, and they were hungry, and no wonder! And so his disciples began to pick grain along the way and eat it. Bur because everyone else was minding their business and was having Sabbath dinner and fellowship, no one even saw them or cared???


NO!!!

Those crazy, hypocritical, unmerciful, faultfinding , inhospitable  pharisees. They even spited themselves, they gave up their own family, friends and fellowship dinner to instead  follow Jesus out of town. Those sneaks! waiting and lurking and looking to find either he or his disciples doing something, anything, wrong. And then they pounced and began to accuse and told Jesus "Your disciples are harvesting! that is forbidden on the Sabbath" " Sabbath breakers" "sinners!"

Think about it...    Now how stupid and ridiculous  was that?

And Jesus said something which was so alien to them, and remains so alien to so many, even today.  He said "But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless."

Guiltless. Do you comprehend what that means? That word doesn't mean excused, it doesn't mean forgiven etc..  The context of that underlying Greek word is: without fault, without blame or reproach ---> without sin.

Phipps was traveling on the Sabbath??? so what!?! do you know why he was doing so, or what was going on beforehand making it necessary? I somehow doubt it.... or that it would even matter to some if there was cause.

Next , sponsors sold tickets during Sabbath hours...

And are the sponsors Sabbath keepers? Do they even know or believe or have convictions about it?  Was phipps in charge of ticketsellers or sponsors or when they opened and closed their business?

Somehow I doubt it...

Imagine you are a farmer, You grow corn but are convicted about not working on the Sabbath, so you plow, plant, harvest and then sell it to a local Farmers market and even a cannery all while guarding your special time with the Lord and resting and delighting in him, and not working during the Lord's quality time with you.

Problem the Farmers market is open on Sabbath,  So is the cannery, people working and being paid. Next the product is sold on the Sabbath, stockers stock it on the shelves, shoppers buy it, and Cashiers sell it. ALL  on the Sabbath, wives, mothers and Chefs cook it on the Sabbath, others partake or buy it at their favorite restaurant...

Are you the sinner? Not hardly. You are in charge only of when you buy and sell...

Better question, are the others sinners? Do thy even know about or hold any kind of convictions about it?

God winks ar times of ignorance.. Do his people???

Paul once wrote:

1Cr 5:12- 13 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
 But them that are without God judgeth.



Being both Just and Merciful... what a concept.

I thank God that Jesus has the final say.

Many of you people scare me.

Mat 9:13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jax

There we go...the Three Angels Message no longer applys to the Sabbath because Jesus threshed wheat to eat...but I do not recall him Singing to get paid.

And now the dilution begins by the ministry that is suppose to focus on the "Ten Commandments", but we can disregard the Sabbath now???
So what happened to the motto "to counteract the counterfeit" and to "give the undiluted 3 Angels Message?"

And I wonder, is Whintley drawing a Senior Pastors Salary and a conference tax free housing allowance while he collects $130,000 for singing on the Sabbath? And what about the AMway distributorship? And does this violate NAD working policies regarding GC employement?

I remember a Publishing Director being fired forv running a Cambridge Diet multi-level in Northern New England!!!

Sorry, but this is a firestorm that will not go away easilly.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Maxey]

Where this whole thing leaves me cold and it begins to look like "I gotcha" mentality was when you threw in the concern by MN conference.

I never said "MN conference" I said, "members in the Minnesota conference".

SDAminister

Some may have missed your basic theme of BOD ethics as related to the Dacalogue.  Some may have chosen to be a little more discriminating when you added Proper Appelations in the alleged honest facts.  Keep your chin up so long as you understand that "avoidance of sin" is between God, your Creator, and you; whereas, the "avoidance of the appearance of evil is beween you and how your neighbor surmises which God and your Creator was alrady factually aware.

Most of my ethics came from free rulers in school with the Golden Rule imprinted coupled with a grandmother of my friends sticking her finger in each of our faces with the admonition that "be sure your sins will find you out!

Speaking for myself I hope I am "factually aware" and don't fall into the "factually challenged" group.  I didn't miss "the BOD ethics as related to the Decalogue theme"

That would be very hard to do. It is a broken record theme on this forum. Many just grasping at straws and desparately trying to paint 3abn as guilty, this time by attacking Wintley Phipps.

No doubt it's the repetitive theme that has sdaminister sounding just like Pickle now also.

BTW I fixed your reply via guote box. Don't feel bad, many don't quite get it. For example, Daryl is always having to correct Joy's missives also..

Once again giving proof that the quietest ones are often the smartest ones.  Would you consider renting your intuition out by the hour?  I need help picking some investments.

[bonnie]

For anyone holding their breath waiting for the ax to fall from the MN or GC conference,got a bit of news for you.
If you are leucky this would reach the status of a big yawn without their mouth covered

[Rosa]

Where this whole thing leaves me cold and it begins to look like "I gotcha" mentality was when you threw in the concern by MN conference.

I never said "MN conference" I said, "members in the Minnesota conference".

SDAminister

Some may have missed your basic theme of BOD ethics as related to the Dacalogue.  Some may have chosen to be a little more discriminating when you added Proper Appelations in the alleged honest facts.  Keep your chin up so long as you understand that "avoidance of sin" is between God, your Creator, and you; whereas, the "avoidance of the appearance of evil is beween you and how your neighbor surmises which God and your Creator was alrady factually aware.

Most of my ethics came from free rulers in school with the Golden Rule imprinted coupled with a grandmother of my friends sticking her finger in each of our faces with the admonition that "be sure your sins will find you out!

Speaking for myself I hope I am "factually aware" and don't fall into the "factually challenged" group.  I didn't miss "the BOD ethics as related to the Decalogue theme"

That would be very hard to do. It is a broken record theme on this forum. Many just grasping at straws and desparately trying to paint 3abn as guilty, this time by attacking Wintley Phipps.

No doubt it's the repetitive theme that has sdaminister sounding just like Pickle now also.

BTW I fixed your reply via guote box. Don't feel bad, many don't quite get it. For example, Daryl is always having to correct Joy's missives also..

Once again giving proof that the quietest ones are often the smartest ones.  Would you consider renting your intuition out by the hour?  I need help picking some investments.

I am very sorry but I can't. Suddenly I feel an overwhelming desire to go back into lurk mode again.

[Bob Pickle]

How does Wintley feel about Danny allegedly getting several hundred thousand dollars in royalties from the 2006 TCTR campaign, a campaign that helped put 3ABN $3 million in the red for that year?

Why hasn't the 3ABN Board reined Danny in on issues like that, a board of which Wintley is purportedly a member?

If I were making $130,000 from my own non-profit while also pastoring, I might have trouble getting on Danny's case.

[quaddie47]

How does Wintley feel about Danny allegedly getting several hundred thousand dollars in royalties from the 2006 TCTR campaign, a campaign that helped put 3ABN $3 million in the red for that year?

Do you expect to find an answer here on this forum or do you plan to merely speculate?  Otherwise, what is your purpose in asking this question?

Why hasn't the 3ABN Board reined Danny in on issues like that, a board of which Wintley is purportedly a member?

Is there a question here that is intended to lead to facts or just more speculation to reach your point?

If I were making $130,000 from my own non-profit while also pastoring, I might have trouble getting on Danny's case.

And do you know how much Pastor Phipps accepts in denominational funds for pastoring a church? 

[bonnie]

How does Wintley feel about Danny allegedly getting several hundred thousand dollars in royalties from the 2006 TCTR campaign, a campaign that helped put 3ABN $3 million in the red for that year?

Why hasn't the 3ABN Board reined Danny in on issues like that, a board of which Wintley is purportedly a member?

If I were making $130,000 from my own non-profit while also pastoring, I might have trouble getting on Danny's case.

Quite frankly Bob, this was not one of the finer moments of those that have serious concerns about 3ABN and DS

You can't honestly believe that the life of Pastor Wintley is an unknown either within his own conference or that of MN if as someone said,his name recognition would be quilte high.

I have my doubts as to SDA Minister, being a minister of the SDA church. I seriously doubt any SDA minister would have dragged out such a detailed agenda of another pastor.

Obviously,the conference office is not concerned at the claimed 130,000.00 from a non-profit.
Personally this is why when I donate I do so where I am not supporting a lifestyle that I can't live

[Bob Pickle]

Do you expect to find an answer here on this forum or do you plan to merely speculate?  Otherwise, what is your purpose in asking this question?

Problem is that the Danny clones typically don't try to find answers to questions, so that makes things more difficult.

Is there a question here that is intended to lead to facts or just more speculation to reach your point?

I'd say there is.

And do you know how much Pastor Phipps accepts in denominational funds for pastoring a church? 

No. Do you?

But does he really pastor a church in the usual sense of the word if he is already putting in 40 hours a week in another job?

[bonnie]

But does he really pastor a church in the usual sense of the word if he is already putting in 40 hours a week in another job?

Would you have the same concern if this pastor did not have a affliation with 3ABN. I am sure there are pastor's that could be ferreted out but I doubt they would be of interest without the name 3ABN attached.

3ABN has enough on the dinner plate to clear up, which I doubt they will.Are you now going after any and all that might in some way have their name attached to 3ABN??

You do and it is not going to reflect on 3ABN nearly as much as on you.

[quaddie47]

April 10, 2008
Section: LOCAL/STATE
Edition: Final/All
Page: B03

Church plans an upgrade
RICK NEALE
Staff


RICK NEALE

FLORIDA TODAY


WEST MELBOURNE -- A rapidly growing Palm Bay church is on a pilgrimage to a planned larger chapel on Minton Road.

Palm Bay Seventh-day Adventist Church has outgrown its home on Americana Boulevard.

Sanctuary capacity is 498 people -- but, sometimes, 700 worshippers attend, spilling into an adjacent fellowship hall and other rooms, Associate Pastor Tim Henderson said.

The church wants to move northward to West Melbourne, and build a 24,500-square-foot facility just southwest of Minton Road and Interstate 95. This 14-acre tract, which contains four single-family homes, lies immediately south of the Carriage Gate subdivision entrance.

"We also see it as a community cultural center as well," Henderson said during an interview in his church office. "We believe in outreach, and we believe in cultural programming.
"So, often, edifices like that are not used to the fullest."

Last month, the West Melbourne City Council unanimously approved an initial site plan for the project. The first construction phase calls for a 1,250-seat sanctuary, 318 parking spaces and two retention ponds. An assembly hall may be built in the future.

The property is being rezoned for institutional use.

Jake Wise, a civil engineer with Construction Engineering Group of Melbourne, said a portion of the property fronting Minton Road will remain zoned for commercial purposes.

He said the church eventually may open a gift shop, bookstore or other ventures on the land.

Wise compared Palm Bay Seventh-day Adventist Church's growth to that of Calvary Chapel of Melbourne.

In February, the West Melbourne planning and zoning board unanimously approved the church's construction plans.

Mark Vorce, one of the board members, told council members that no endangered animal species would be threatened.

"I did walk the property. As you know, I'm quite concerned about our wildlife. And all I could find was a few 'mices' and things like that," Vorce joked, drawing laughter from the audience. "There's no turtles out there. I didn't see any Florida panthers. So, I think, from my standpoint, I was satisfied."

Henderson said church officials were scheduled to meet with an architect this week to begin design work.

The pastor of Palm Bay Seventh-day Adventist Church is Wintley Phipps, a two-time Grammy Award nominee.

Phipps founded the U.S. Dream Academy, a nonprofit organization devoted to providing mentors for children whose parents are incarcerated. Oprah Winfrey donated $1 million to the group in May 2005.

-------

Yep, sure sounds like this church is having real problems due to its Pastor not performing up to Bob's standards.  Should we speculate on how other SDA churches would like to have this terrible problem of not enough room?

[Bob Pickle]

Would you have the same concern if this pastor did not have a affliation with 3ABN.

I would think I would ask some of the same questions.

Are you now going after any and all that might in some way have their name attached to 3ABN??

Of course not. Yet in order to come up with ways to prevent such scandals from occurring again, there are legitimate questions that should be asked.

And there is a lawsuit going on, since 3ABN and Danny still have not served their demand to settle, and they are nearly a year past the deadline for that that they themselves set. Thus one has to explore various possibilities as to why there even is a scandal, in order to present a plausible theory to the jury.

It has been said that Danny handpicked his board members. The Nick Miller story definitely alleges that he gets rid of board members who don't do what he wants. So questions regarding board members I would think are definitely appropriate.

[Bob Pickle]

Yep, sure sounds like this church is having real problems due to its Pastor not performing up to Bob's standards.  Should we speculate on how other SDA churches would like to have this terrible problem of not enough room?

So were you going to find some answers to the basic questions, or are you trying to suggest that Job's friends were right that prosperity is absolute proof of God's favor?