Now Sam;
How could the IRS check eBay sales that are not accounted for on 3ABN Books? How do I understand why Tammy got the money for some of 3ABN's items that sold to me? Remember, all the records for those sales don't exist. They only admit to sales since 2002....
Where are the records for sales prior to 2002? Are they gone so those sales will have no record as to where the money went?
Now Fran, I am not unacquainted with either the Chances or the donations dept. I have even helped out in the donations barn at 3abn. So please forgive me for being blunt here, but my view you are going off half cocked, without having all the facts and evidence to look at.
Just because you have not seen the records or paper trail, does not mean that the 3abn bookkeeping department, their auditors and yes even the IRS has not seen them.
I personally know that you have never once contacted, approached, or asked any kind of questions whatsoever of either Bruce or Tammy Chance, (or 3abns bookkeeping dept) as I asked them, and they didn't even know who you were or anything about your concerns, questions nor accusations. Yet here you are finding fault with them and 3abn etc without bothering to consult those you are talking about or even trying to get the whole picture.
You are trying to weave bits and pieces and scraps together and coming up with the wrong pattern.
For these reasons, al though I do not plan on engaging in a discussion or debate here, I have to interject the following and say that I consider you not credible and very wrong. To be blunt again, that is not how we as Christians are to operate.
Even thought you didn't bother to contact her Tammy Shelton Chance did very graciously answer some of your concerns and criticisms here in a letter written to Sam.
I am including it below for those who haven't seen it before, and have bold texted some specific parts for emphasis.
From: Tammy Shelton Chance
Sent: Thu 6/05/08 11:58 AM
I have no problem with answering your questions to the best of my
ability. I will try to go through them one at a time.
Q. Now, 3ABN started selling on eBay in 1998. I made purchases. The
User ID at that time was nan_don! The Store now says it started June
1, 2001, on the information page right now. 3ABN has a total
feedback of 2011; however the feedback SCORE is 1581. What does this
mean? It means that they have bought and sold to 1581 unique
accounts. The difference is for repeat sellers and buyers.
A. At no time was 3abn's user name nan-don. If you will look at the
link that you sent me it says nan_don had over 4000 sales! That
certainly wasn't us. Only a very limited number of items were even
sold on ebay before we created the donation dept and then started the
store. Nan_don had nothing whatsoever to do with 3 Angels. Someone
entirely different. I won't go into answering the rest of the
questions you sent pertaining to nan_don since it is a moot point.
As far as the feedback score, repeat buyers are limited to the amount
of feedback that can be left, and we also must take into account that
some people that purchase don't bother to leave feedback so their
purchase isn't calculated into feedback scores.
Q. Did the store change its name 4 times in less than 2 weeks?
A. Absolutely not! There was no ebay store until I created and
named the store and I have never changed it! I am guessing this is
another error related to the nan_don ID.
Q. The PayPal expense is posted when PayPal charges it. The
eBay/PayPal expenses should be looked at each month to see if you are
loosing money!
A. Though this wasn't a question I will answer. Every sale is logged
into the computer database which connects to the accounting dept. It
is done at the time of the sale and the money from the item goes
directly into 3abn's account as soon as the person pays unless they
use an e check which takes approximately 7 days to clear. We do not
sell items everyday but when we do all is taken care of the day of
sale and again when payment is made. (We have a 3 day payment
policy). Every sold item has a check and balance.
Monthly reports are as follows: A download of all paypal payments
and fees. A download of all auctioned items and store inventory
items as well as, all sold items and all fees pertaining to those
items.
There is a monthly donor "sold item report" which shows the items
that were sold, the donor that gave the items, the donor's
constituent number, the sale date and the amount sold for. These
records are compared with the ebay/paypal records and any receipts
and records of sales outside of ebay.
As items arrive they are logged into the computer with the info of
who sent it, constituent number, date received and a description of
the item or items. A report of those items is made monthly.
Though you didn't ask for a "play by play" directly it may simplify
the process for you if I explain the process.
When an item or items arrive at 3 Angels it arrives at the call
center's shipping and receiving dept. The S/R manager opens the box,
gets the general idea of what is in it (doll, picture, quilt)and
makes a note of the description, who sent it and when it arrived.
These are kept on file.
The box is then brought over to the donation
department where an assistant inventories the box completely and then
logs the contents into the database along with donor and const #,
date received....Then the item or items is tagged or labeled with the
const # of the person who gave it.
Later when it is sold we look up the record by the const # where it
was entered upon arrival and we put the date sold and the amount sold for.
The same process of recording the sold items also applies to the Barn
Sale. Each item is tagged with the correct const # and is recorded
when it sells. When the monthly sale report is printed out it is
given to accounting so that they can receipt the donor for their
items that sold.
Q. Did you ever say on a program that you had brought in 2.4 million
dollars?
A. Absolutely not! Because we haven't. On one program we quoted
that over several years time we had brought in a quarter of a million
and on a later program close to half a million. Again those figures
were over several years. I don't have the exact time period in front
of me but 2.4 never happened and hasn't happened yet. We have faith
that one day we will reach that mark though as we continue to receive
great donations.
Q. What time period did the mock check you presented to Jim G.
represent?
A. One year.
Q. When did you begin using Paypal? Was it because of something you
read on Club Adventist?
A. lol We began using paypal in 2003. I never heard of Club
Adventist until about 8 or 9 months ago and certainly have never been
there.
Q.Is your department audited?
A. Absolutely. The auditor's come to our department with all the
reports in hand. They know our system and the checks and balances
that are in place. Given the complexities of all that is involved, +
a massive paper trail, they give us good marks on our accountability
with the department. Laws change as time goes by so we comply with
everything we are told to do by our CFO and the auditor's. That
results in periodic changes that are implemented into the program and
we do our best to keep up.
I could go into more facts and details than told here but I won't
bore you with everything that is required of us. Suffice it to say
we keep as precise and detailed records as is possible and we
continue to grow as our department grows.
Hope this helps,
Tammy Chance
Yes, I believe they need to be watched to see if they do it right! Sorry, that is just how I feel about it. The facts mentioned above really does not make the situation above board as far as I am concerned.
Fine, then watch, there are no problems with that, but please make sure you look at all in a impartial and unbiased manner, and that you have all the facts and evidence before reporting about it.
The funny thing about those looking to find fault, is that they will always find a way to do so.
I am quite sure none of us here want to be bearing false witness or to become an accuser of the brethren.
Righteous Judgment includes being both Just and Merciful.
Jax
Author
Topic: Gilly opening speaker tonight at ASI Convention (Read 35733 times)
