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Author Topic: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation  (Read 175036 times)

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Snoopy

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2008, 10:13:26 PM »

Sounds like a great question to ask in court, don't you think??


Quote
I guess Danny wouldn't need that equipment if 3ABN just "happened" to have it!!  And maybe 3ABN just "happened" to have a horse trailer, too! 


If he hauls hay it cam be done with a pickup but rather tedious as it requires more trips.

Why would 3abn have farm equipment


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bonnie

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2008, 10:16:03 PM »

Quote
Sounds like a great question to ask in court, don't you think??


Quote
Snoopy
[I guess Danny wouldn't need that equipment if 3ABN just "happened" to have it!!  And maybe 3ABN just "happened" to have a horse trailer, too! 


Quote
If he hauls hay it cam be done with a pickup but rather tedious as it requires more trips.

Why would 3abn have farm equipment



I don't think 3abn could explain a baler. Possibly the rest of it.

It would be more likely he bought hay.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 10:23:41 PM by bonnie »
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Snoopy

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #152 on: August 22, 2008, 10:22:43 PM »

I'm thinking there will be several topics 3ABN might not be able to explain in court.  I happen to know an employee (still there, I believe) who was involved in building a barn for Danny, at Danny's residence on Hwy 34, on company time, with supplies purchased by 3ABN.  Go figure.


I don't think 3abn could explain a baler. Possibly the rest of it.

It would be more likely he bought hay.
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Habanero

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #153 on: August 22, 2008, 10:23:25 PM »

Quote
I guess Danny wouldn't need that equipment if 3ABN just "happened" to have it!!  And maybe 3ABN just "happened" to have a horse trailer, too! 


If he hauls hay it cam be done with a pickup but rather tedious as it requires more trips.

Why would 3abn have farm equipment


Might 3ABN have farm equipment because it had acres of hay fields that are now lawn? A 3/4 ton flatbed truck with a low trailer would be alot better for transporting hay than a pickup would be, don't you think? And the tedium would be relieved if a number of employees cut, raked, baled, bucked and stacked the hay in the loft.
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Snoopy

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #154 on: August 22, 2008, 10:27:29 PM »

Hhmm - were these employees on the clock when they were haying?  And, whose loft was this hay stacked in?  Does 3ABN have a loft??


Quote
I guess Danny wouldn't need that equipment if 3ABN just "happened" to have it!!  And maybe 3ABN just "happened" to have a horse trailer, too! 


If he hauls hay it cam be done with a pickup but rather tedious as it requires more trips.

Why would 3abn have farm equipment


Might 3ABN have farm equipment because it had acres of hay fields that are now lawn? A 3/4 ton flatbed truck with a low trailer would be alot better for transporting hay than a pickup would be, don't you think? And the tedium would be relieved if a number of employees cut, raked, baled, bucked and stacked the hay in the loft.
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bonnie

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #155 on: August 22, 2008, 10:29:25 PM »

Quote
I guess Danny wouldn't need that equipment if 3ABN just "happened" to have it!!  And maybe 3ABN just "happened" to have a horse trailer, too! 


Quote
Might 3ABN have farm equipment because it had acres of hay fields that are now lawn? A 3/4 ton flatbed truck with a low trailer would be alot better for transporting hay than a pickup would be, don't you think? And the tedium would be relieved if a number of employees cut, raked, baled, bucked and stacked the hay in the loft.

He could but a baler only serves one purpose and that baling hay.  A 3/4 ton flatbed would be preferable to a pickup.

If that much had been cut it would have required a baler he could have baled once or until they quit using and just kept short



edited to correct error
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 10:33:45 PM by bonnie »
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Fran

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #156 on: August 23, 2008, 01:14:37 AM »

There is so much falsehood being spoken by the "other" side that I can't see the hay for the bales!

Was this there only crop?   :ROFL:   :dunno:

Hemp is grown on a farm.  Some farms produce "grass".  What else was in that barn?  We got a horse business.  A hay business.  A business in construction.  3ABN pays for the materials and the labor. Hum.  $$ Cha ching $$.  What can we say.  How can anyone do ALL that on $94,000 a year!  Who bought all of the large farming equipment?  That stuff ain't cheap!

Bonnie, how much do you figure that equipment would run?

I know!  Maybe that is where the nan_don eBay money went?  Naw, I believe it went to people "here, and over there."

Someone told me that Danny's maid service and gardener were back to 3ABN to do 3ABN work.  I can see why they built a smaller home!  Cleaning all that square footage takes a LOT!

Well, I guess I can go back to eBay for a while. 
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bonnie

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #157 on: August 23, 2008, 06:19:26 AM »

There is so much falsehood being spoken by the "other" side that I can't see the hay for the bales!

Was this there only crop?   :ROFL:   :dunno:

Hemp is grown on a farm.  Some farms produce "grass".  What else was in that barn?  We got a horse business.  A hay business.  A business in construction.  3ABN pays for the materials and the labor. Hum.  $$ Cha ching $$.  What can we say.  How can anyone do ALL that on $94,000 a year!  Who bought all of the large farming equipment?  That stuff ain't cheap!

Bonnie, how much do you figure that equipment would run?

I know!  Maybe that is where the nan_don eBay money went?  Naw, I believe it went to people "here, and over there."

Someone told me that Danny's maid service and gardener were back to 3ABN to do 3ABN work.  I can see why they built a smaller home!  Cleaning all that square footage takes a LOT!

Well, I guess I can go back to eBay for a while. 



The farm equipment would run many.many thousands unless bought second hand at auction or private party.


It is possible to have other crops as well,but you are starting to talk about a lot of land and then of course a lot more money for additional equipment. Can't see them doing that.
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bonnie

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #158 on: August 23, 2008, 07:00:11 AM »

There is so much falsehood being spoken by the "other" side that I can't see the hay for the bales!

Was this there only crop?   :ROFL:   :dunno:

Hemp is grown on a farm.  Some farms produce "grass".  What else was in that barn?  We got a horse business.  A hay business.  A business in construction.  3ABN pays for the materials and the labor. Hum.  $$ Cha ching $$.  What can we say.  How can anyone do ALL that on $94,000 a year!  Who bought all of the large farming equipment?  That stuff ain't cheap!

Bonnie, how much do you figure that equipment would run?

I know!  Maybe that is where the nan_don eBay money went?  Naw, I believe it went to people "here, and over there."

Someone told me that Danny's maid service and gardener were back to 3ABN to do 3ABN work.  I can see why they built a smaller home!  Cleaning all that square footage takes a LOT!

Well, I guess I can go back to eBay for a while. 




 nan_don( 4107)    10 years 5 months    TX, United States     

Is this the same I assume it almost has to be


The first item listed is a "risque" item or so described
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Sister

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #159 on: August 23, 2008, 08:49:25 AM »

There is so much falsehood being spoken by the "other" side that I can't see the hay for the bales!

Was this there only crop?   :ROFL:   :dunno:

Hemp is grown on a farm.  Some farms produce "grass".  What else was in that barn?  We got a horse business.  A hay business.  A business in construction.  3ABN pays for the materials and the labor. Hum.  $$ Cha ching $$.  What can we say.  How can anyone do ALL that on $94,000 a year!  Who bought all of the large farming equipment?  That stuff ain't cheap!

Bonnie, how much do you figure that equipment would run?

I know!  Maybe that is where the nan_don eBay money went?  Naw, I believe it went to people "here, and over there."

Someone told me that Danny's maid service and gardener were back to 3ABN to do 3ABN work.  I can see why they built a smaller home!  Cleaning all that square footage takes a LOT!

Well, I guess I can go back to eBay for a while. 

On another forum comments were made in regard to Fran's comment in bold above:

Quote

I wonder if it would be a sin to hire a gardener or a housekeeper? As I recall EGW hired a gardener and also housekeepers when she lived in California after coming home from Australia. I have friends and relatives who have hired people to help out in the garden and also clean house.

Is it a sin to do such a thing? Is it a sin to buy farming equipment too if it is needed? Of course not...


To summarize a number of posts: All of the work mentioned was done by 3ABN employees, on the 3ABN clock. It was not done by individuals that Danny personally employed and paid for out of his own pocket. Farming equipment was bought and paid for by 3ABN, not by Danny Shelton out of his own pocket. What use would a TV station have for farm equipment to bale hay? Hay was cut and baled by 3ABN employees while working on the 3ABN clock. It was delivered and stacked by 3ABN employees working on the 3ABN clock. Danny Shelton's barn was constructed by 3ABN employees working on the 3ABN clock. Dave Everett and Larry Welch both took care of Danny's horses while on the 3ABN clock. It appears that a pattern is developing. Is 3ABN a Shelton family private business where there is no division between private and ministry function in regard to the work of employees and supporting Danny's private interests? If, as Danny has claimed, "3ABN is the Lord's ministry", is Danny Shelton picking the Lord's pockets?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 09:01:31 AM by Sister »
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bonnie

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #160 on: August 23, 2008, 10:36:12 AM »

On another forum comments were made in regard to Fran's comment in bold above:

Quote

I wonder if it would be a sin to hire a gardener or a housekeeper? As I recall EGW hired a gardener and also housekeepers when she lived in California after coming home from Australia. I have friends and relatives who have hired people to help out in the garden and also clean house.



I don't care who does the twisting, when I read something like this, the poster has just told me he/she will pretend ignorance,or worse try to phrase comments in such a way as to take the attention from the comment to the opponent.

I do not believe that the poster author was in any way confused,but a neat way to turn the attention. The concern was over using 3abn funds for personal gain





Quote
Is it a sin to do such a thing? Is it a sin to buy farming equipment too if it is needed? Of course not

No of course it isn't, it is however to exaggerate , lie and pretend you didn't know what was meant to put the other in a bad light
 But from my perspective the 3ABN defenders have answered for me. Instead of saying no he doesn't or yes he does,and this is why,no answer, Shifting attention. I would not be afraid at this point to assume DS does indeed have this equipment and his defenders are reluctant to go down that path,instead hoping it can be diverted to the blame of the fanatics that oppose God by opposing DS

Quote
To summarize a number of posts: All of the work mentioned was done by 3ABN employees, on the 3ABN clock. It was not done by individuals that Danny personally employed and paid for out of his own pocket. Farming equipment was bought and paid for by 3ABN, not by Danny Shelton out of his own pocket. What use would a TV station have for farm equipment to bale hay? Hay was cut and baled by 3ABN employees while working on the 3ABN clock. It was delivered and stacked by 3ABN employees working on the 3ABN clock. Danny Shelton's barn was constructed by 3ABN employees working on the 3ABN clock. Dave Everett and Larry Welch both took care of Danny's horses while on the 3ABN clock. It appears that a pattern is developing. Is 3ABN a Shelton family private business where there is no division between private and ministry function in regard to the work of employees and supporting Danny's private interests? If, as Danny has claimed, "3ABN is the Lord's ministry", is Danny Shelton picking the Lord's pockets?

Answers to this will be interesting IF forthcoming



formatting error edited
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 11:13:03 AM by bonnie »
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irspro

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #161 on: August 23, 2008, 10:58:50 AM »

Fran, when you sit within spitting distance in a campmeeting during the begging stage and make some observations, you are not surprised that internal control could become a problem in business.  Internal control in our personal lives is indicative to me that we do not accept the Ten Commandments as promises rather than prohibitions no matter what we say or how many times the teacher makes us write it or how many times we may co-author it for profit!  My position has to be, whether I like it or not, that our internal feelings will be written all over our external conduct as others see us.

FYB and to allay any of your concerns, the following discussion is all about moral conduct rather than employment or investing:

Some see smoke while others demand fire. In business settings, I used smoke only for directions to fire.  Allegations of fire by others may, in reality, be nothing but smoke.   In business, there are unique ways for finding smoke which can lead to queries which make fire obvious. In re taxes here, many are hay-stacking for "specific items" when it may have been better for an agent to do a simple "source and application or "net worth."  

Many may laugh from lack of experience just as some preachers may preach against a self-assessment tax system's depending upon "informants" to lend credence to that system of taxation about my allegation's to all that ever came into the confines of my public service.  Depending upon the individual matters before me, I emphasized the fact that I was there to "help" them.  You are invited to have a belly-laugh on that one, including all saints and preachers.

Would you think it appropriate for an Internal Revenue Agent to query a taxpayer about known errors discovered since filing?  Much to the dismay of possibly some, this modus has worked many wonders.  In fact,  many times these disclosures are through workpapers prominently displayed for the agent's access or through professionals  that were not involved in the preparation and filing.

I'm reminded of a matter where the wide open spaces did not visually display certain underground fixed-asset improvements to a shipyard.  With the aid of engineering assistance, a number of different agents over an extended period, successfully recommended the capitalization of millions from ordinary expenses and cost of sales.  The taxpayer used the completed-contracts method of accounting where they successfully worked their long-termed contracts to the hilt by tacking-on.  Eventually, the conservative use of recognizing income and liberal use of deducting costs led them into a "deductible net-operating loss brick wall" due to the "back 3\forward 5" provisions of the then law.  Due to this unique, yet not so rare, incident, the taxpayer attempted to show that both the taxpayer as well as the government were wrong in the methods of accounting which would have capitalized additional costs and expenses in earlier years to pull income into later years that would offset a "non-deductible net-operating loss carry-back or carry-forward which would be forever lost.  This example is presented only to show that hidden conduct is not always obvious to the public, at first blush.

The employment of my skills were first attempted in the least labor-intensive manner for the concerned parties.  I remember Johnny's Army Store on which the Schedule C attached to the tax return appeared correct in all respects. The nature of the business, the customer base, and locations spoke to me about audit methods. That being the case, I elected to simply add 12 total deposits from the applicable bank statements for the tax year.  The results were potentially shocking yet not conclusive as an indicator.  I found an optimum time and atmosphere to query Johnny in a non-accusitive manner about any possible difference that could exist between total bank deposits and sales reported such as deposits of funds from loans or re-deposits of bad checks or similar amounts.  Johnny didn't appear to care to try to explain that he didn't have a need to borrow an funds or to re-deposit any type of transactions in his explanations.  He simply cut to the chase and stated,  "It could be caused where I "cut" sales too much."  I didn't spook the taxpayer as that was left to the IRS reprsentative from the Criminal Division which caused Johnny to pass out while we three were seated on a bench in the shoe department.  I'll not get into the grooming of a net-worth, source and applications, or a specific adjustments type exam which was finally and adequately preformed in a reasonable time frame and resolved to the satisfaction of all concerned.  During the settlement phase, Johnny queried how he could pay the deficiency which included additional tax, applicable penalties, and interest.  Johnny's wife suggested to him that he just give the government the d... stores.  Johnny never dealt with me as his enemy and, at the end, displayed a humble rather than antagonistic attitude far after any further changes would be attempted.

As an investor, I am reminded of the former president of a bankrupt corporation  that made recent history.   While an investor, I read where the president divorced his wife and later married an employee working in the investor relations section of his employer where common travel would not be unusual.  A later criminal conviction and effective term for life was the final results where even some professionals saw was not warranted under the facts and circumstances where the state attorney general that maneuvered the prosecution of the matter was caught up in a prostitution matter in Washington, DC and resigned with no apparent jail term consequence.  But, that is life! Don't be concerned with my going to sleep on investments no more than appurtant morals about my investments!  I entered that one at $14s and exited at $46s only to miss the $50s and $60s like a favorite cousin.  I was a day-trader on that one at $2s where a buy order was filled at $2 when the S&P downgraded the bonds to junk-status that sent it to $1.85 where I sensed trouble.  Fortunately, I was not concerned with the morals of other on message boards in re independent ministries to the extent my DSL was not communicative minute by minute for a company conference call which took the second leg up to exit me at $2.15 which was my last trade ever for that entity for its short remaining history until bankrupcy after many were voodooed, much to their dismay through trading prices in the pennies!

I still look for opportunities to help my neighbors and church brethren.  Some have come by this week to pick Florida Giant Speckled butterbeans which are loaded but not fully developed.  I didn't send them away empty-handed.  I suggested they get all the tomatos, okra, and bell pepper they needed.  They left some for other neighbors and I presented them with a frozen package less than a month old for their enjoyment.  I don't remember whether they thanked me or not as I am not the type like my spouse who has always tried to teach morals in actions as well as in words.   I could have chided my neighbor that I warned him to put a tablespoon of epsom salts under his tomatos when he planted them, but, I didn't.  I could have reminded him of the waterpump for which he expected pay, but, I didn't.  Hopefully, I have proven to myself that a merry heart doeth good like a medicine.






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Snoopy

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #162 on: August 23, 2008, 01:24:44 PM »

irspro,

Is there a statute of limitations on IRS actions/audits?
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Sister

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #163 on: August 23, 2008, 05:42:25 PM »

There is so much falsehood being spoken by the "other" side that I can't see the hay for the bales!

Was this there only crop?   :ROFL:   :dunno:

Hemp is grown on a farm.  Some farms produce "grass".  What else was in that barn?  We got a horse business.  A hay business.  A business in construction.  3ABN pays for the materials and the labor. Hum.  $$ Cha ching $$.  What can we say.  How can anyone do ALL that on $94,000 a year!  Who bought all of the large farming equipment?  That stuff ain't cheap!

Bonnie, how much do you figure that equipment would run?

I know!  Maybe that is where the nan_don eBay money went?  Naw, I believe it went to people "here, and over there."

Someone told me that Danny's maid service and gardener were back to 3ABN to do 3ABN work.  I can see why they built a smaller home!  Cleaning all that square footage takes a LOT!

Well, I guess I can go back to eBay for a while. 

On another forum comments were made in regard to Fran's comment in bold above:

Quote

I wonder if it would be a sin to hire a gardener or a housekeeper? As I recall EGW hired a gardener and also housekeepers when she lived in California after coming home from Australia. I have friends and relatives who have hired people to help out in the garden and also clean house.

Is it a sin to do such a thing? Is it a sin to buy farming equipment too if it is needed? Of course not...


To summarize a number of posts: All of the work mentioned was done by 3ABN employees, on the 3ABN clock. It was not done by individuals that Danny personally employed and paid for out of his own pocket. Farming equipment was bought and paid for by 3ABN, not by Danny Shelton out of his own pocket. What use would a TV station have for farm equipment to bale hay? Hay was cut and baled by 3ABN employees while working on the 3ABN clock. It was delivered and stacked by 3ABN employees working on the 3ABN clock. Danny Shelton's barn was constructed by 3ABN employees working on the 3ABN clock. Dave Everett and Larry Welch both took care of Danny's horses while on the 3ABN clock. It appears that a pattern is developing. Is 3ABN a Shelton family private business where there is no division between private and ministry function in regard to the work of employees and supporting Danny's private interests? If, as Danny has claimed, "3ABN is the Lord's ministry", is Danny Shelton picking the Lord's pockets?


For those who find the names Dave Everett and Larry Welch unfamiliar, perhaps a little history 3ABN history is in order. Dave Everett and his wife were both employed at 3ABN: ET, the head of the 3ABN music studios, and Dave did various jobs around 3ABN, anything from seeding grass, to construction and taking care of Danny’s horses. Included in their perks was a rent free apartment in the music complex which ET helped design and decorate.  Neither Dave or ET are Seventh-day Adventists. When the school complex was built and a beautiful gym floor was put down, Dave was one of the guys that Danny pulled off of their regular duties to come and play basketball with him in the afternoons on 3ABN’s dime.

Larry Welch is also an interesting case. Previously, before Larry became a part of the 3ABN pastoral staff, he oversaw construction. Actually, he didn’t do all that much, but he was paid double the salary of other 3ABN workers with similar levels of responsibility. In addition to his other duties Larry has been a long time member of the 3ABN Board of Directors. One of his main qualifications was to back up everything Danny said at board meetings and horse duty. His wife worked in the accounting department.

There is much more that could be said, but this is intended to be just a little introduction...

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bonnie

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Re: Approved SDA Media Outlet Publishes an Article about the IRS Investigation
« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2008, 05:56:42 PM »

Quote

For those who find the names Dave Everett and Larry Welch unfamiliar, perhaps a little history 3ABN history is in order. Dave Everett and his wife were both employed at 3ABN: ET, the head of the 3ABN music studios, and Dave did various jobs around 3ABN, anything from seeding grass, to construction and taking care of Danny’s horses. Included in their perks was a rent free apartment in the music complex which ET helped design and decorate.  Neither Dave or ET are Seventh-day Adventists. When the school complex was built and a beautiful gym floor was put down, Dave was one of the guys that Danny pulled off of their regular duties to come and play basketball with him in the afternoons on 3ABN’s dime.

I am a little lost here. Does 3ABN have a school??

Quote
Larry Welch is also an interesting case. Previously, before Larry became a part of the 3ABN pastoral staff, he oversaw construction. Actually, he didn’t do all that much, but he was paid double the salary of other 3ABN workers with similar levels of responsibility. In addition to his other duties Larry has been a long time member of the 3ABN Board of Directors. One of his main qualifications was to back up everything Danny said at board meetings and horse duty. His wife worked in the accounting department.

How does someone go from a construction sup to a pastoral staff position? Many good,very bright people work in all sorts of jobs,but how can you be part of the pastoral staff without being a pastor?

Or are the duties at 3ABN different than I am taking "pastoral staff"



« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 06:03:45 PM by bonnie »
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