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[GrandmaNettie]

Hmmmmm.... That's a rather nasty thing to say for someone who is often on the  receiving end of similar accolades from her "side".  Ad hominem statements such as this one are not only rude, they also reek of hypocrisy.

Sam, you and anyman spend so much time patting each other on the back, you must be developing calluses on your palms to match those that have deadened your consciences.

There is so much back-patting going on here at Adventtalk that it was rather ludicrous for you to have pointed the spotlight on an instance of this behavior from those who don't share your stance on the 3abn issues.  I spent just a few minutes checking out old posts, after reading your post this morning, and gathered a small selection of examples from various members:

 

Amen, Gailon, well said!

Posted on: Today at 07:21:26 PM Posted by: Bob Pickle

So what does Division leadership there think about the various 3ABN issues? Do you know?

Good question, Bob!   That's the Euro-African Division, right?

I love Gailon's word choices!

Fran,

You are so precious!

First, we observe administrators at BSDA get frustrated and close the 3ABN subforum "for a few weeks" to give everyone, particularly them, "a break".

During that "few week break" this new, friendly forum sprang up to give folks another venue for discussion.  Almost immediately thereafter, the BSDA 3ABN subforum abruptly ended its "few week break" after only a few days.  However, the 3ABN-related documents and letters that had been "pinned" were unpinned.

Whatever term they choose to use, the "unpinning" of these documents has effectively buried these firsthand accounts in the depths of BSDA making it necessary for a reader to know they are there and go in search of them, rather than have them displayed prominently for members, lurkers or new readers to see.

Thanks for that comprehensive and clear-headed summation, Snoopy!

I also have wished that those various items were pinned here at AdventTalk!

Daryl, that would be great if you brought them over here!

Daryl is going on vacation???  Oh NO!!

Just kidding!  From what I have witnessed just in the last couple of weeks, it is a well-deserved one!!  Have a wonderful time Daryl!!  Hopefully you will not be taking a computer!!  Oh yes - thank you for getting these all important letters and documents here and handy!  I for one really appreciate it.

I also want to thank Daryl publicly for all his hard work and effort. This Forum is one that 'had to be'.

Johann, thanks for explanations from someone who actually knows something about it!

And again the mention of an alternate mission entity, independent of the church.

[Sam]

Sam, you and anyman spend so much time patting each other on the back, you must be developing calluses on your palms to match those that have deadened your consciences.

At least we still have a conscience. Yours seems to have jumped ship some time ago.

[irspro]

irspro,

Does what you are saying go for both civil and criminal audits?

You mention original documents, while Duffy's letter refers to copies instead of original documents. Any thought on that?

Bob, I seldom respond to speculation; however, this may be a situation where speculation may allay the situation until some pertinent request may be filled with more concrete information or even more concrete speculations.

Has anyone on these threads speculated that the "hoped-for-closing" is nothing more than a closing-out by the Criminal Division for full responsibility back to the Audit Division for the case going forward on the basis that no "BADGES OF CRIMINAL FRAUD" were determined by that division?  To advise you fully, the Audit Division has the final responsibility for determination of any applicable deficiency and applicable civil fraud or negligence penalties?

Keep in mind that I have no dog in this fight while my very successful stock trading platform suffers to a slight degree from attention in feebly attemping to allay their concerns.

My real concerns drift more to a rumor that a well known and apparently well respected church member with a PhD from a local theological seminary has just drawn a 4 year term with an exact name showing on the internt with an unspecified term with "violence" shown in the charges, not characteristic of one occupying the pulpit on a number of occasions.  But, my church started in the early 1900s finally folded by the conference while was serving both the hispanic and biracial attendance.  Once the conference executive committee decided that certain changes would be made in the ministerial responsibilities in the districts, the church was totally dissolved and merged with the nearest city church suffering with anticipated debt in failure to move earlier from a blighted section of the city to another highly inflated area in the suburbs.  The city church invested $100,000 in another highly inflated suburb with the opportunity to sell that parcel for $1,150,000 after ten years.  Those voting for merger attributed the merger as the country church was not strategically located which may have been factual to some extent as the property hasn't sold since an anticipated hispanic deal flopped after about 3 years when they left owing a $200 power bill and a lot of repairs and renovations needed.  I am able to buy the $270,000 edifice which one of the responsible leader jumped at with the response that the city church could work into its program after evangelism in an ethnicarea are some 20 miles removed from the county church.  I have yet to make a move.  Some time after the country church was merged with the city church, an outspoken and somewhat off-beat member was note with a possible diamel(sp) in one ear without comment other than he was working at a local Pilot truck stop.  I spoke and bid him adieu only to read in the local county legal records that he had been meted out a life sentence for sexually abusing certain of his grandchildren with romors surrounding similarly abusing certain of his children and parent of the grandchildren.

I'll get back to my very profitable trading mostly in pharams, health care, and REITS where my DD into some pharms as not being kosher even though possibly accredited as being kosher as recombinants of certain unclean animals, mouse genes, Chinese guinea pig ovary genes\w\snake venom activators, bovine plasma and who know what other substances some of which we have been advised to not even touch.

I'll get on with my rat-killing and await those feebly attempting to jerk my chain which makes me feel right at home with my former work of showing the 97% honest citizenship of the US how much more successful they were than first thought and for some strange reason a few didn't seem to fully appreciate, even some in the ministry and school teachers!

[Sister]

GrandmaNettie, it appears you have appointed and anointed yourself as the unofficial conscience of AdventTalk. Lately the majority of your posts concern figuratively taking those who disagree with the Defenders of Danny Shelton out to the wood shed for a "whuppin". You are not my Grandmother and I am not in need of your self righteous discipline. Your recent posts scolding others have been both insensitive, as in the case of Bonnie, and meanspirited as in regard Bob Pickle. Perhaps it is time for you to retire to your rocking chair and take up knitting before you embarrass yourself further on this forum.

[Bob Pickle]

3. The law firm that handled the IRS case and dealt directly with the agents involved would be idiots to sign their names to a letter saying the investigation was over if they didn't know that to be a fact.

Are you speaking of the law firm whose lead attorney in the 3ABN matter denied in early 2008 that there was an investigation? In court and on the record? Is that the firm who put their signatures to a letter saying that an investigation had been ongoing since 2007? One in which they "handled the IRS case and dealt directly with the agents involved"?

Actually no.  Though Duffy composed the letter and helped where needed, it was another firm that handled the IRS case face to face. His name is definitely on the letter as he is the one that had direct contact.

Sam, your answer is a little confusing. Duffy in his letter claimed to have represented 3ABN along with Max Carr-Howard. Are you saying that wasn't true?

[Ozzie]

Hmmmmm.... That's a rather nasty thing to say for someone who is often on the  receiving end of similar accolades from her "side".  Ad hominem statements such as this one are not only rude, they also reek of hypocrisy.

Sam, you and anyman spend so much time patting each other on the back, you must be developing calluses on your palms to match those that have deadened your consciences.

There is so much back-patting going on here at Adventtalk that it was rather ludicrous for you to have pointed the spotlight on an instance of this behavior from those who don't share your stance on the 3abn issues.  I spent just a few minutes checking out old posts, after reading your post this morning, and gathered a small selection of examples from various members:

 

Amen, Gailon, well said!

Posted on: Today at 07:21:26 PM Posted by: Bob Pickle

So what does Division leadership there think about the various 3ABN issues? Do you know?

Good question, Bob!   That's the Euro-African Division, right?

I love Gailon's word choices!

Fran,

You are so precious!

First, we observe administrators at BSDA get frustrated and close the 3ABN subforum "for a few weeks" to give everyone, particularly them, "a break".

During that "few week break" this new, friendly forum sprang up to give folks another venue for discussion.  Almost immediately thereafter, the BSDA 3ABN subforum abruptly ended its "few week break" after only a few days.  However, the 3ABN-related documents and letters that had been "pinned" were unpinned.

Whatever term they choose to use, the "unpinning" of these documents has effectively buried these firsthand accounts in the depths of BSDA making it necessary for a reader to know they are there and go in search of them, rather than have them displayed prominently for members, lurkers or new readers to see.

Thanks for that comprehensive and clear-headed summation, Snoopy!

I also have wished that those various items were pinned here at AdventTalk!

Daryl, that would be great if you brought them over here!

Daryl is going on vacation???  Oh NO!!

Just kidding!  From what I have witnessed just in the last couple of weeks, it is a well-deserved one!!  Have a wonderful time Daryl!!  Hopefully you will not be taking a computer!!  Oh yes - thank you for getting these all important letters and documents here and handy!  I for one really appreciate it.

I also want to thank Daryl publicly for all his hard work and effort. This Forum is one that 'had to be'.

Johann, thanks for explanations from someone who actually knows something about it!

And again the mention of an alternate mission entity, independent of the church.

GrannyNettie
You do really seem testy these past few days. May I suggest that you take you Premarin, rest for a while, and see if you get up in a better mood? It really might help, you know.

There is help available. 

[bonnie]

Being a little realistic may help and not end up with so many ruffled feathers.


I would like someone to step back take a look and tell me what there is about faceless, anonymous posters that I or others not directly involved should believe. The anonymous poster's that so ardently defend DS could be the most honest on earth, whether or not they are agreed with by others. Or they may be the most bold faced liars on the planet. Or they are conned by DS.They could be DS or any of the Shelton family. They could be one poster posing as three poster's.
Faceless, anonymous people are hard to put a great deal of faith in. One forum member that we dealt with had 10 identities when we were dealing with him. Ten that we knew off.

A couple of us here know about internet harrassment, the middle of the night phone calls on a private cell phone. Had we kept it anonymous why on earth would we have expected total strangers to  believe us ,the proxy ip's etc.

The truth of Bob and Gailon's claims will come out in the wash of the trial if it gets that far. The truth or lie of anonymous supporters will never come out in the wash. Still nameless and faceless,no idenity,no responsibility ,no accountability. Just nameless and faceless accuations and support for DS

[Bob Pickle]

Yet the truth of some of what the anonymous folks have said has already come out.

For example, Sam asserted that in 1998 Danny and Linda made a mere pittance, which somehow justified 3ABN selling them a house for $6,139, and them selling it to a 3ABN supporter for $135,000 one week later. (Bear in mind that that same 3ABN supporter had given them 18 acres just a few months before as well, the same land they built their new house on.)

But the mere pittance ended up, according to the Form 990, being more than $94,000 combined income, and Sam still hasn't explained how that was a mere pittance.

Reminds me a bit of when Joe Smith (believed to be Ronnie Shelton) on BSDA asserted that Linda now lives in a mansion with a huge pool. So I decided to check that one out, and Joe ended up saying that any pool is huge to someone who doesn't have one.

I wish Sam would take me up on my request to name the allegations he thinks I need to retract.

[bonnie]

Yet the truth of some of what the anonymous folks have said has already come out.

For example, Sam asserted that in 1998 Danny and Linda made a mere pittance, which somehow justified 3ABN selling them a house for $6,139, and them selling it to a 3ABN supporter for $135,000 one week later. (Bear in mind that that same 3ABN supporter had given them 18 acres just a few months before as well, the same land they built their new house on.)

But the mere pittance ended up, according to the Form 990, being more than $94,000 combined income, and Sam still hasn't explained how that was a mere pittance.

Reminds me a bit of when Joe Smith (believed to be Ronnie Shelton) on BSDA asserted that Linda now lives in a mansion with a huge pool. So I decided to check that one out, and Joe ended up saying that any pool is huge to someone who doesn't have one.

I wish Sam would take me up on my request to name the allegations he thinks I need to retract.

As long as the salary received was upfront and they lived within those means I don't care how much they made.

I know from raising expensive purebred animals for 17 years, I would have had a hard time buying and maintaining over a dozen horses. To say nothing of hiring stable help because as has been said here, they were on the go non stop.  I do have a good idea what that costs and 100,000.00 a year would have had a very sizable chunk taken out.  You take the purchase of very expensive animals, farrier, vet,worming,hay, grain and then stable help it is very expensive. If the horses were a business then part of the salary should reflect that. If the less than 100,000.00 a year was strictly salary from 3ABN, how was this done.

94,000 is not a mere pittance but neither would it have been out of line for two working full time.

I am not going to take the time to go back and look it up, but the horse deal and the e-mail, didn't that include a request for a donation receipt of x number of dollars instead of an appraised value??
As far as I know you can not write off a "donation" to a private individual. So was this conversation dealing with 3ABN and the horses or a private horse business of DS and LS.

Out of curoisty I would like to know how this was all accommplished but not a biggy. What both sides are saying will hopefully be explained in full at trial if no one wants to settle

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

So I intend to help the Layman's Ministry & Polly's Places around America so they can help abused wives and children, and yes even abused men too.  ASI may write them off, but they are at the very top of my list!  These are my opinions and not those of another, just me.

Fran, thank you so much for deciding to donate to Polly's Place Network affiliates!  Your donations will be put to good use!  

Due to the destructive vandalism at the Niles, Michigan facility, they are in great need of financial help right now.  There are really many programs that can use financial support from caring people who wish to help those who need to learn to rise above the abuse they have suffered.

I would encourage all to check out the brand new show Empowerment on HOPE Channel.  The Lord has blessed Mable Dunbar and Polly's Place Network with this new vehicle to spread the message of hope and healing to the abused.  It airs each Tuesday night and Friday morning.  PPN is still looking for funds to cover the travel expenses to get people to the studio to tape programs.

Again, Fran, thank you so much for being willing to support such a worthy ministry!

Too bad HOPE Channel would not show the Linda Shelton tapings, huh, Grandma Nettie? What can we do to get that changed?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Bob Pickle]

I am not going to take the time to go back and look it up, but the horse deal and the e-mail, didn't that include a request for a donation receipt of x number of dollars instead of an appraised value??

Was to total $40,000 for two horses for 2004, and totaled $20,000 for a horse or horses for 2003.

As far as I know you can not write off a "donation" to a private individual. So was this conversation dealing with 3ABN and the horses or a private horse business of DS and LS.

It was donations allegedly made by Danny to Stephen Lewis' ministry.

[ex3abnemployee]

I wish Sam would take me up on my request to name the allegations he thinks I need to retract.

Don't hold your breath, Bob. Sam is just another one of the dime-a-dozen anonymous posters who come in here under the cover of a screen name and post wild accusations with nothing to back them up. I find it fascinating that there are those who come in here anonymously and attack those of us who sign our real names to our posts, yet they want to be taken seriously.

It reminds me of what often happens on the CB radio when I'm out driving. Every so often you'll hear a driver talking smack about other people, threatening to fight everyone, etc. When someone finally figures out which truck they're in and tells everyone else, the "tough guy" backs down. We refer to them as "Radio Rambos". They're really big and bad when they think no one knows who they are.

It reminds me of all the threats of legal action from those who are hiding here.

[irspro]

3. The law firm that handled the IRS case and dealt directly with the agents involved would be idiots to sign their names to a letter saying the investigation was over if they didn't know that to be a fact.

Are you speaking of the law firm whose lead attorney in the 3ABN matter denied in early 2008 that there was an investigation? In court and on the record? Is that the firm who put their signatures to a letter saying that an investigation had been ongoing since 2007? One in which they "handled the IRS case and dealt directly with the agents involved"?

Actually no.  Though Duffy composed the letter and helped where needed, it was another firm that handled the IRS case face to face. His name is definitely on the letter as he is the one that had direct contact.

Sam, your answer is a little confusing. Duffy in his letter claimed to have represented 3ABN along with Max Carr-Howard. Are you saying that wasn't true?

Bob, my interest here lies entirely now in the academics of the matter to inform all interested parties of every kind or character of the fact that the criminal matter are the only aspects of the case that would be discussed by the Justic Department, aka AG or Attorney General.  Until you begin to see matters discussed with the Treasury Department about tax deficiencies, civil penalties(if any), and interest on deficiencies, you will then see the civil matters in the final stages.  I've trained too many Justice Department attorneys who represented the IRS on many of my assessment that have been made where the taxpayer paid the tax, filed a claim which I would disallow so the taxpayer could sue in Federal District Court where the District Director of IRS would be represented by a lawyer from the Tax Division of the Justice Department.  Don't get confused by your minister of the Gospel on tax or criminal matter with the Feds as they are required to study an hour on each minute's length of their weekly sermon so I've been told.

Remember, you need to hear some Treasury Department rumors in the future rather than the Justice Department rumors in the past, so just let other sound ignorant about discussion of any Justice Department rumors.

My local church folded and hasn't sold in going-on five years when it was used as a spring-board for Advent preachers to get their PhDs from the local seminary with one I remember being in Time Management.

[Cindy]

I am not going to take the time to go back and look it up, but the horse deal and the e-mail, didn't that include a request for a donation receipt of x number of dollars instead of an appraised value??

Was to total $40,000 for two horses for 2004, and totaled $20,000 for a horse or horses for 2003.

2 horses for 40,000.00 ?

Then why does Linda say she needs acknowledgment for the 2 horses she is claiming in 2004, and appraisals for them?

And why does Danny say that they will each get two reciepts each?

Sure it wasn't 4 horses for 20,000.00??

Not that it matters as when DS talked to his accountant he found out they couldn't file like that, so didn't...
As His and Linda's tax returns show and the accountant can verify...


Just one more example of your shoddy reporting...

-------- Original Message --------
From:     Linda Shelton
To:     Danny Shelton
Date:     Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:15:42 AM

My accountant tells me that it is required to have an acknowledgement from ****** that he received the two horses (which I am claiming as a tax deduction), also the two appraisals of the horses. I cannot finish my tax returns without these items. I appreciate your help in these matters.

LS


------- Original Message --------
From:     Danny Shelton
To:     Linda Shelton
Subject:     RE:
Date:     Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:02 PM

LS,

I will call ****** today and try to take care of this. I need them also.

DS



-------- Original Message --------
From:     Danny Shelton
To:     Linda Shelton
Date:     Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:39 AM

I left a phone message to ****** of what we need. He did get the horses and we will each get two tax write offs for $10,000 @

Mr. Shelton

As far as I know you can not write off a "donation" to a private individual. So was this conversation dealing with 3ABN and the horses or a private horse business of DS and LS.

It was donations allegedly made by Danny to Stephen Lewis' ministry.
[/quote]

[Bob Pickle]

2 horses for 40,000.00 ?

Then why does Linda say she needs acknowledgment for the 2 horses she is claiming in 2004, and appraisals for them?

You'd have to ask her why she insisted on that, but the IRS requires appraisals for donations of property worth more than $5000.

And why does Danny say that they will each get two reciepts each?

Feel free to ask him.

Not that it matters as when DS talked to his accountant he found out he couldn't file like that, so didn't...
As His and Linda's tax returns show and the accountant can verify...

My question has been why Danny would have to talk to his accountant about this since he had already been running a major 501(c)3 organization for 20 years, and thus he sure should have known that such was breaking the rules. If he didn't know, he had no business running 3ABN.

But I must ask you, have you seen Danny and Linda's returns for 2004? Have you talked to the accountant?

And what do the 2004 returns have to do with the 2003 return? And with his stating that there was no guarantee what they would appraise for?

Just one more example of your shoddy reporting...

How was this an example?