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[Gailon Arthur Joy]

The IRS doesn't issue "official" letters, but they also do not like or even at times allow commentary by those being investigated - yet they have allowed Atty. Duffy to comment on this issue. Why? Possibly because an effective request was made, based on the fact that your false allegations need to be addressed, and granted.

Mr. Gailon Arthur Joy, yourself, and others have attempted to get others to believe that there is not clearance by the IRS, but time and again, individuals of far greater integrity have substantiated the claims. Even Fran has demonstrated she is afraid to share the information form her inside informants in the IRS (think they could get fired for sharing with her information?)  . . . why is she afraid, maybe because she has already discovered the that the information out there is T R U E! Something you wouldn't ever want to face, much less admit! Get used to having your scurrilously allegations being disproved as it is going to become a regular experience.

You can go ahead and yammer on about what "you" think needs to be addressed, but based on all the information submitted to the IRS by you, Fran, and others . . . somehow it seems impossible that they "missed" anything. It would make sense, when one considers the IRS thorough behavior, that if they thought there was something to dig into they would have dug into it . . . so, IF they found something amiss in the years stated thus far, they would have dug into past, no ALL years concerned . . . but it is evident they didn't find anything amiss, didn't dig into other years and you are left with nothing but your H o l l o w (can you hear the echo) claims that you tenaciously cling to hoping you won't look foolish in the end.

There still is no exoneration from the IRS, according to Duffy's letter. And no explanation for Danny's 2005 claim that he had reported a donation of property as cash on his 2003 return.

And according to Duffy's letter, no documents dealing with the 1998 house deal were produced to the IRS.

Anyman, so pleased to see you. So, why don't you try your hand at the following questions?

Two questions, ANYMAN:

1) Did the IRS issue a file closed letter? And if so, where is it?

2) Since the IRS has "exonerated 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton", would you recommend and expect that they would add the IRS investigators to the 3ABN and DLS Witness list? Since the case is purportedly closed, there is no longer anything secretive and even a Freedom of Information request would have to be answered.

These people of stature most certainly know the value of bringing in the investigative staff to testify on behalf of 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton. Particularly since they "did not find a single thing wrong"

I absolutely would not even debate the relevance of such an important witness, would you, ANYMAN?

Don't be afraid to give direct answers to such simple questions. 

Now this premise that they do not allow comment on active investigations!!! You must be kidding!!! The concern relates to the obstruction of justice. Reporters can report findings as long as it does not obstruct justice. If the file is closed it is not an issue and they do close files. The issue is the claim they have found nothing wrong. It is impossible. Never happens and never will happen.

Oh, yeah, one other thing, I did not contribute one document to the IRS!!! Get it straight!!!

And I will be happy to "yammer" on with the full faith and confidence that we have issues that will withstand the test of a civil trial. Sorry to disappoint you!!! Don't forget your xanax as you will also need it!!!

You and 3ABN have similar problems, you think that we are really idiots and and you can pull the wool over our eyes the way you have so many others. Again, much to your chagrin. we were not born yesterday and we are doing just fine, thank-you.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[anyman]

With each and every comment you make it becomes more and more evident that you are an angry school yard bully who know they are wrong, knows the teacher is coming and they will end up  in the principles office, knows their mom and dad are going to be called in and they are going to be in a world of hurt when it is all over.

Your legal "prowess" has been minimalized on a reoccurring basis and it won't stop where it is - it will merely continue until you have to face the world naked claiming you have the finest gowns wrapped around you. The support roles in for 3ABN, the world is beginning to see you for who you are and what you are about - the TRUTH in this Mr. Gailon Arthur Joy is that you are intent on brining down the final mission of God's last day people. You want to draw as much attention away from the message God desires the people of earth to hear and know . . . you are detracting from God's work, you are attempting to hide and cast shadows over the message of love and grace in the death of the Savior of the people of this planet. You are the stumbling block of many who have listened to you play on their heartaches, their pain, their struggles - you have attacked these in a parasitic manner sucking your life from their pain and personal agony rather than leading people to the Savior, rather than showing the world the love of God you have lead them into a deeper personal hell where their pain and anger and struggles multiply. You are not leading a single soul to the Savior.

Attack me! Spew your meaningless venom against me! Rant, rave, writhe in anger that you have been exposed. Bellow, thump your chest, threaten . . . God will not be mocked and your mockery will come to demise when it plays out its role in the Great Controversy between the Lord of the Universe and the father of lies. Then you will answer for all you have done - not just here, but in all the attacks on those who would do the work of the Lord. You will answer in the courts of the land, but the most important case you will have to testify in is the one where you are asked, "Who have you lead to the foot of the cross?" "Who have you lead into the loving fold of the Good Shepard?" "Who have you brought into the arms of the Savior?" . . . instead you will have to answer by pointing out all that you have chastised, all you have vilified, all you have excoriated, all you have ridiculed, belittled, and attacked in public venues . . . you will have to answer, "I was Saul, I did the work he failed to do." You will continue your argument "I exposed all the personal lives of those who I determined were your enemies."  Instead of being able to answer, "Like the Samaritan who cared for the man who despised him, I sought to lift up my brother to you. I sought to bring those hurting and in pain to your arms to be healed and cared for." you will have to answer that you sought to destroy, to eradicate, to devastate, you will joyously claim to be judge, jury, and executioner . . .

God is love. I have yet to see you demonstrate by word or action that this is even a consideration in your theology. Stop pointing fingers, stop the juvenile "But, he did this . . ." response. Take responsibility for your actions, your words, and apologize for you attacks on those who do the work of the Lord. Apologize to those whose lives you have laid bare for your own enjoyment. Admit your sins publicly as you demand of others, apologize publicly as you demand of others. Do the work that is required of those who walk hand-in-hand with God in these last days and bring the message of love, forgiveness, and salvation to a wonting world in these final days of earths history. You are doing nothing to bring the lost to the Savior. You are not a martyr, but rather a self-absorbed individual who has delusions of grandeur. The humble, loving spirit of the Christ is not evident in your words, your actions. What is evident is self-aggrandizement and narcissism. You display only disdain for your fellow traveler. You despise the children of God. You do not evidence the spirit of God's last day people - love, compassion, understanding. You want it your way, not God's way.

Earlier I posted a comment to the effect that I knew two peple who worked for the IRS.  They had told me that the comments regarding the IRS investigation of 3-ABN having ended accurately described how the IRS Works.

Today I spoke to a male (For those who are interested.) attorney who has worked on litigation against the IRS in his law practice.  [NOTE:  I am saying that this attorney has worked in this area and can therefore be considered to have some knowledge.]  I described to him what is being said by those who say that the IRS criminal/civil investigation is over and that 3-ABN has been cleared and I asked him to comment on those statements.

His comment was:  What you have described is consistent what I have seen my my law practice as I have worked on cases that involved the IRS.  That is how the IRS operates.

Folks, people whom I trust, are not involved in any way with 3-ABN (They are objective), and have personal knowledge as to how the IRS works lead me to blieve that the IRS has cleared 3-ABN of criminal/civil wrong doing.

I believe the issue regarding the IRS is over.  I believe that 3-ABN has been cleared.  Personally I believe that there were two flaws in the charges that people made against 3-ABN and Danny Shelton:

1) The people who made the charges did not know what evidence existed that 3-ABN/Danny Shelton had to rebut the charges.  Folks, a one sided knowledge of an event is not enough to convict someone.  I would say that 3-ABN made this same error in some of their handeling of charges against Linda Shelton.     Now, in my opinion, some who have charged 3-ABN have committed the same error.  One side of the issue is neither fair nor enough to convict.  One must know and understand all sides of an issue before a decision is made.

2) I have been told by competent legal counsel that some of the IRS charges made against 3-ABN (specificly the sale of the house) were based upon a failure to understand the tax consequences of a property transaction that involved a "life estate."  But, once I am told that pople making a specific charge do not properly understand a major aspect of the tax law as it applied to the transaction, I have to assume that those making other charges may (?) not understand other aspects of tax law.


My personal opinon: Folks, like it or not, the IRS tax isssues are over.  3-ABN apears to have been cleared on the criminal and civil front.  Get on with your lives.  In overall summary, while the IRS did not consider other charges not related to tax issues, the failure of the charges related to IRS issues to be sustained is a major wound to the other charges.   If people making the charges can not get right an issue that is founded in established law and written records, most people will begin to question other charges that are more subjective.  If your are wrong in this, who is to say you are correct on other issues?

Two questions, Mr Matthews:

1) Did your "competent counsel" tell you whether the IRS issues a file closed letter? And if so, where is it? Wouldn't you want to see that file closed letter, Mr Gregory, before you came to such a strong opinion?

2) Since the IRS has "exonerated 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton", would you recommend and expect that they would add the IRS investigators to the 3ABN and DLS Witness list? Now that would be a real feather in their cap to bring in the investigative staff to testify on behalf of 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton. Particularly since they "did not find a single thing wrong" Would not even debate the relevance of such an important witness, would you?

Well let me make it clear that we have already added one to our list and that is how certain we are that YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!!!

They are not cleared on the civil front, Mr Matthews, and we are CERTAIN of it!!! I do not have clarity on the criminal question and I am not convinced 3ABN does either and your statements are PURE CONJECTURE at the very best. Your analysis is clearly challenged and based upon incomplete, self induced prejudice and a fear driven need to stay out of the fray. But be sure to ask your "competent legal counsel" if a file simply closes with a request for document return without an inocuous file closed notice? Then analyse again. Practice makes perfect, they say!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Ozzie]

It might be, GrandmaNettie.  But, with the standard you and Sam have set with the way you both address Gailon and Bob, I would say I am NOT EVEN CLOSE to being condescending.  And I might also have to refer you back to your very own "PKB Syndrome"...

Speaking to you as a member and not a moderator, Snoopy, isn't it rather condescending to speak to Sam using "sammy"?  Aren't we endeavoring to  post our opinions respectfully?

Snoopy, try to be kind to Grannie Nettie. She seems to be having a 'bad hair day' today. Don't want her blood pressure going too high unnecessarily, do we? 

She seems confused enough so maybe, we just need to let her acidity go right over the top of our heads today.

Maybe, tomorrow might be a better day for her?

[GrandmaNettie]

My hair is behaving quite well and my blood pressure is just fine.  Your own acidity just rolls off me like water off a duck's back.  I had hoped you might weigh the comments I made in response to the accusations you made in your post.  Apparently you are not going to do so.

How about just proving one of your statements?  Where is your verification for " that scaring his then-wife with a firearm is the hallmark of a loving husband"? 

How did Danny scare his then-wife with a firearm?  What are you basing this allegation on? Do you have documentation?

Anyone reading this statement by you would likely picture a husband, gun in hand, threatening his wife with it; scaring her.  Is that what happened?  That is the picture you are painting.  Such is the nature of gossip.  It tends to evolve into something quite different from the actual event.

[Ozzie]

Intersting point Habanero. I can't really see DS 'approving' AT!

However, he may be 'using' them for his own ends? 

How sad.  It would see Ozzie that you also belong to the cult of Danny Shelton.  Who else would continue to attribute to him such power over others?  Maybe you had better warn AT and Mr. Schwantes you are on to something.  

Wow. At last we have someone acknowledging that DS has a cult-like following. A following that believes that he is anointed by God. That he is like Moses. That even if he is found to be doing evil, that is OK, because he's the 'anointed'.

Refreshing to see you actually posting more than your standard smilie filled, giddily tacit echos and cut downs.

Oh dear Grannie. I can't go spoiling your day, so I need to add the highlights. Maybe, you need to lighten up a bit, take a few steps back and see what colour the sky is and how beautiful the roses smell? 

About time that is is acknowledged that he has a following who believe that evil is good, that black is white;

Applying the breaks to look at your statements a little more closely... Whose thoughts are you parroting? Whose information have you taken as gospel?

I am not known for 'parroting' any one else's ideas Grannie. I am usually known for working things out for myself and acting accordingly. You on the other hand, I have heard from several sources here, seem to vacillate between one idea and then another. It must be an ordeal being so confused?

that trashing one's ex-wife in front of the world is OK;

Not at all okay.... but then, it's okay to turn around and trash him, his chairman and the 3abn BOD, any of his supporters or family members as well as anybody who sees things differently than your leaders do in front of the whole world?

that diddling the books is fine;

This just may not turn out to be true, no matter how often Bob says it is so.  I think we're going to have to wait and see on this one as that whole IRS clearing 3ABN just might be true.

that using donations for God's work to sue fellow Christians is fine;

3abn is a private ministry.  It was built by the Shelton's, both Danny and Linda and others in the family.  It is not a part of the SDA deonomination even though the message they share is the one many conservative SDAs believe in and practice.  The donations they receive are given to support the ministry.  If the ministry must take legal measures, why is it a "sin" to use money that donors have donated to support this private ministry?  Why? Because Bob and Gailon have represented it as a sin to do so.  Our SDA denomination most likely has a budget for legal needs.  Where does that money come from?  Tithes and offerings?  If you step back a bit, Ozzie, perhaps you might see that Bob and Gailon went too far in their campaign to return 3abn to its conservative roots.  There are right ways to handle sin in others and there are wrongs ways as well.  IMO, Bob and Gailon diverted from ethical measures in their crusade and a lot of you bought it, hook line and sinker.
[/quote]

Regardless of what Bob and Gailon did or did not, does that make it right, the way that Danny has sued them? Of course, you are entitles to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. Ethics doesn't seem to be a strong characteristic of DS though.

that scaring his then-wife with a firearm is the hallmark of a loving husband;


Did he brandish this firearm in her face or threaten her with it?  It was in the house.  As I recall this story, Linda was afraid that Danny was getting so unbalanced during the unraveling of their marriage that she was concerned about the gun he had, so she hid it.  

As you stated, Danny was becoming so unbalanced, so why wouldn't his wife be afraid of him, with a weapon in the house? Really enough to call in the legal heavies to get rid of it, in my opinion.

You cannot down-play the statistics of domestic violence Grannie. There are too many 'statistics' who did not want to upset their husband further, by having weapons removed, but who now lie in graves.

Do you want to dispute that reality?

threatening other Christians who might go to a Camp Meeting is quite legit.

Whether it was kind or not, it was certainly legit.  This wasn't a case of Johann and Arild having an entitlement or a right to gather upon public property during that 2004 campmeeting, even though I believe their motives were good.  3ABN is a private ministry and, as such they can determine who they want to allow to attend their campmeetings and who they don't.

Rather strange isn't it that the good doctor and Johann were banned from the meeting. Independent Ministires are usually noted for getting people to their meetings, by whatever means it takes, and these are turning people away and threatening them with legal repercussions if they attempted to attend.

VERY STRANGE indeed.

Yes. So sad that people can follow people like DS, David Koresh and others, but it's good to see that quaddie47 acknowledges that is so.

I can't understand the mentality of cult followers (or their leaders), but it is a relief to know that others are finally seeing it and that he 'uses' those people for his own ends. Thank you for pointing that out quaddie.

As for this Mother Duck, there's no way that I'll be leaning that way nor following like a hypnotised sheep. No siree![/b]

And yet, you have bought everything that Bob and Gailon have been selling.  You probably now believe that Sam is the "miscreant pastor hunter" as Gailon has concluded instead of Sam being Danny as he, and then you, used to espouse.  You probably believe that Gailon is telling the truth about Gregory Matthews betraying him and then Linda, simply because Gailon said so.  

Might be a good idea for you to do some research into understanding the mind of a cult leader so you can start to think and see for yourself.

[/quote]

Oh dear Granny. You do have your feathers in a flap. I'm sorry that you are having such a bad hair day.

I'm so glad that you added 'probably' to some of your assertions above, as you couldn't be more wrong about me. However, by covering your [censored] with 'probably', you can get away with your assumptions and trying to influence people to believe things about me that just aren't true. 

Now Research is one of my favourite activities/topics. While I haven't written a thesis on 'cults and their leaders', it has been quite interesting reading. Such a pity that people get caught up on these things.

Just make sure that you're not backing the wrong side Grannie and remember, that pride goeth before a fall.

[Fran]

Today I was agitated with my church, and members of my church; me included.  It is so discouraging to see what my church has become to me!  This morning, after listening to Jim Gilley and CA Murray as well as a speaker touting how Adventists are greater than others!  Our membership has increased blah, blah.  Adventists are better educated and do things better than others!

I got sick to my stomach!  Then came 3ABN Today and then Brenda Walsh!  I turned it off!  I was so upset!  I sat here thinking about why I am an Adventist anyway.  It all came back to truth.  The message is true.  That is why I am a Seventh-day Adventist!  If it is the true church, why are so many corrupt?  I am speaking for myself here also, so don't take this as only you.

I thought things through and made a decision earlier and let my decision out in the thread about Joel Osteen and unclean meats!  I have been deciding just who will get my offerings now?  It used to be so simple.  They do good, so give!

After all of these past 4 years, things are not what they seem to be!  My thinking is muddied by past experiences within the church.  Sexual Abuse at the hands of the clergy, teachers, elders, deacons and even deaconesses was alive and well!  I was a victim.  I told!  Of course they believed the leader!  I was the liar to everyone else.  Who was OK?  Only God can see the heart!  How many others were there besides me?

One of my molester got teacher of the year!  He was promoted and he became a principal in a new school.  He got a new playground.  So it goes, right?  Just get over it and shut up!  From that day to this, I have seen cover-up after cover-up.  Some things have been blown out of the water, but it never changes!  Just who can be trusted?  Only Jesus!

So since I know of 3ABN's problems, it was easy to stop giving to them, but what about what ASI has been doing to other independent ministries.  Taking away from Polly's Place and the Layman's Ministry in Walla Walla, then giving $150,000.00 to 3ABN to promote Kid's Time on 3ABN.  The program that has Brenda Walsh as the star!  How blatant can you get?

So I decided to give to Polly's Place and the Layman's ministry that lost their money because they let Linda sing!  Any other ministry that is a member of the corrupt ASI Organization  will never receive from me again.  Yeah, that includes Amazing Facts and Maranatha!

They could care less I am sure.  I don't have millions to give.  If that were the case, I would be the one giving all the sinful orders that are being given out as we speak!  Why can't life be simple.  Why can't I just love everybody and go merrily on my way?

Reading all the lies right here are to me a clear sign that Christ has to come soon.  I can't believe what is coming out of the mouths of those people that are not visible.  They come under a shroud of darkness.  They are afraid to identify themselves; they hide under proxies.  They do everything to find our identities and begin to try to ruin all of us.  Not with just bad words, but by attacking the very ID of each one.  They did that to Linda too.  This is the behaviour of the 3ABNites.  If they had not filed a lawsuit we would probably not be here today.

I have had trust issues all my life.  I finally found a pastor that was trustworthy in 1996!  But he got promoted and is now one of the "go for the greater good" crowd.  Trust for pastors hit a new low for me until I spoke to a pastor recently.  I found one!  It was Bob Pickle!  Yeah!  I do not know him.  I have never met him and I have spoken to him only a few times, but this conversation let me see where his christian heart sat at that moment.   Finally my faith was renewed.  I am having to took at my heart really closely to be sure God is first in my life.  Who knows, I can meet him tomorrow.

Then I read IRSpro's post about spiritual adultery and how he/she just leaves those independents alone and looks at the commandments as promises.  I stand there.  I used to have everyone calling me about 3ABN and telling me to go for it.  They gave me a lot of information that is not good.  Gailon and Bob have all of that and hundreds maybe thousands more!  This one thing I do know, I believe Bob does not lie.  I haven't found him in a lie yet!  He may have misread once or twice, but he is telling the truth.  I believe that.

Everyone knows Gailon's past now thanks to those healing broken people at 3ABN.  They set out to ruin him straight away.  They tried to belittle Bob, but it hasn't worked.

Then again we have a pastor's opinion about the civil part being over.  The civil part lives on as I see it.  If this one dies on the vine, I hope Gailon and Bob start a new one and broaden it real big and wide.

So I intend to help the Layman's Ministry & Polly's Places around America so they can help abused wives and children, and yes even abused men too.  ASI may write them off, but they are at the very top of my list!  These are my opinions and not those of another, just me.

[Gregory]

They are not cleared on the civil front, Mr Matthews, and we are CERTAIN of it!!! I do not have clarity on the criminal question and I am not convinced 3ABN does either and your statements are PURE CONJECTURE at the very best. Your analysis is clearly challenged and based upon incomplete, self induced prejudice and a fear driven need to stay out of the fray. But be sure to ask your "competent legal counsel" if a file simply closes with a request for document return without an inocuous file closed notice? Then analyse again. Practice makes perfect, they say!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon you spend a lot of time questioning motives.  I do not have a fear driven need to stay out of the fray.  You make a lot of personal attacks.

If you would remain objective, deal solely with objective facts and lay off of the personal stuff you would be much more believeable.

[irspro]

They are not cleared on the civil front, Mr Matthews, and we are CERTAIN of it!!! I do not have clarity on the criminal question and I am not convinced 3ABN does either and your statements are PURE CONJECTURE at the very best. Your analysis is clearly challenged and based upon incomplete, self induced prejudice and a fear driven need to stay out of the fray. But be sure to ask your "competent legal counsel" if a file simply closes with a request for document return without an inocuous file closed notice? Then analyse again. Practice makes perfect, they say!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Dismiss "the request for document return" as hogwash.  Original taxpayer's documents are generally never removed from taxpayer's location.  Computer based records, even down to PC based, dismissed the need for massive copying  on even my largest banks, insurance companies, ship builders, chemical production and oil refiners, construction of every kind and character, etc.  The IRS has shred-facilities in every office with mandatory rules for disposal of sensitive material.  I'll dismiss the alleged "request for document return" as a ploy for a grain of credibility for closure as cases originating with a field audit agent is not accepted by the Criminal Division without "some" firm evidence of an area of non-compliance per se!  It just doesn't happen as there is too much oversight by both audit as well as criminal investigation managers.  I've never seen such a request in 50 years which included professional tax representation; however, I'll await an explanation of a Guiness record of a potential botched examination procedure.  Memo:  The taxpayers have a legitimate right to complain to their federal representatives if the IRS requested even massive copies of useless documents they thought they needed to return to taxpayers even if the case moves back to the Audit Division from the Criminal Division.  I get a chuckle every time I think of it!

=====

Edited to separate post from quoted post.

[Bob Pickle]

So we have had repeated claims of IRS exoneration in this thread, and still there has been no explanation of Danny's claim that he falsified a figure on his 2003 tax return, and no no explanation of the 1998 real estate deal.

I say "no explanation" because merely asserting that a "life estate" was involved is not an explanation, in my opinion, since there has been no attempt to explain how that changes the effect of 3ABN's reporting the sale of the house on its Form 990 as a loss.

Could Amazing Facts vote to give Doug Batchelor a life estate in a $50 million dollar home, and then later sell him the remainder interest for a pittance, and it wouldn't be considered private inurement? If Amazing Facts had to file 990's, could they then deny that a section 4958 excess benefit transaction took place?

Let's have some explanations!

[Bob Pickle]

Bonnie,

What sort of announcement were you thinking of?

Preachers and members have a God-given right and responsibility to call sin by its right name, suit or no suit. The day will come when laws will be passed in America that will take away that right. Will we cave when that day comes, or will we continue to exercise that God-given right and responsibility?

The suit makes specific claims that puts at issue lots of allegations that the IRS would have no interest is. That being so, the courtroom will have an interest over whether Danny Shelton had biblical grounds for divorce, and, I believe, whether Danny Shelton covered up the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton.

Thus far, no one has produced anything in the way of an IRS ruling. We must remember that.

The court could not care less about biblical grounds for divorce. Not one whit.The court does not lose any sleep over immorality


 The child molestation chages are going to be the same. Obviously there was something going on or TS would not have written that letter.You have the statute of limitation and a lack of any victim coming forward to file charges or a lawsuit.


You will likely never see anything by way of IRS ruling.

Bonnie, since ¶ 50 of the plaintiffs' complaint is all about the divorce, including whether Danny had grounds for divorce, then the court has to consider that question, whether it wants to or not. The morals of society are not a factor. The question is whether the complaint makes that an issue or not.

The statute of limitations is not a factor for the purposes of the lawsuit. Neither is whether any of the alleged victims have sued or filed charges. The question is whether our reporting about Danny's cover up of the allegations against Tommy caused donations to decline. And the question is whether the 3ABN Board handled issues in a responsible manner. Our reporting, allegedly declining donations, and 3ABN Board oversight are all put at issue in the complaint.

[irspro]

So we have had repeated claims of IRS exoneration in this thread, and still there has been no explanation of Danny's claim that he falsified a figure on his 2003 tax return, and no no explanation of the 1998 real estate deal.

I say "no explanation" because merely asserting that a "life estate" was involved is not an explanation, in my opinion, since there has been no attempt to explain how that changes the effect of 3ABN's reporting the sale of the house on its Form 990 as a loss.

Could Amazing Facts vote to give Doug Batchelor a life estate in a $50 million dollar home, and then later sell him the remainder interest for a pittance, and it wouldn't be considered private inurement? If Amazing Facts had to file 990's, could they then deny that a section 4958 excess benefit transaction took place?

Let's have some explanations!

Oral agreements generally accompany such transactions.  "Substance vs form" make it one transaction rather than two for tax purposes.  I've even used written long-term employment agreements and state law to make the alleged employee a shareholder for federal tax purposes when the stock certificates, stock record book, and the corporate minutes could not be produced and the majority shareholder bought out the alleged employee's contract and deducted the payment as wages.  The taxpayer agreed and paid the tax.  The taxpayer then filed a claim which was disallowed on which he sued in federal court where the jury ruled against the taxpayer.

A local city commissioner recently contacted me on a citizen who had given the city a written option to purchase a tract for a park for $500,000.  The citizen approached the city about changing the agreement to sell half the tract for the same $500,000 and he would donate the other half free of charge.   You have a problem with this?

Infomants need to clearly identify themselves for the statutory awards.  I see this a domestic-type dispute among church members and outsider probably care little about the matter.  IMHO the blame can be laid at the feet of local church governance who didn't and probably still don't understand independent ministries without proper internal control!  If a public company will backdate employee stock options, what could you expect of others?

[Bob Pickle]

irspro, your comments are helpful.

Yes, I have a problem with that.

I'm going to start a thread with a question you might be able to help with.

[GrandmaNettie]

So I intend to help the Layman's Ministry & Polly's Places around America so they can help abused wives and children, and yes even abused men too.  ASI may write them off, but they are at the very top of my list!  These are my opinions and not those of another, just me.

Fran, thank you so much for deciding to donate to Polly's Place Network affiliates!  Your donations will be put to good use!  

Due to the destructive vandalism at the Niles, Michigan facility, they are in great need of financial help right now.  There are really many programs that can use financial support from caring people who wish to help those who need to learn to rise above the abuse they have suffered.

I would encourage all to check out the brand new show Empowerment on HOPE Channel.  The Lord has blessed Mable Dunbar and Polly's Place Network with this new vehicle to spread the message of hope and healing to the abused.  It airs each Tuesday night and Friday morning.  PPN is still looking for funds to cover the travel expenses to get people to the studio to tape programs.

Again, Fran, thank you so much for being willing to support such a worthy ministry!

[GrandmaNettie]

irspro, your comments are helpful.

Yes, I have a problem with that.

I'm going to start a thread with a question you might be able to help with.

What are the odds that irspro will say something you don't agree with, Bob?

[Bob Pickle]

How would I know?

What was the purpose of your question?