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[Gregory]

Earlier I posted a comment to the effect that I knew two peple who worked for the IRS.  They had told me that the comments regarding the IRS investigation of 3-ABN having ended accurately described how the IRS Works.

Today I spoke to a male (For those who are interested.) attorney who has worked on litigation against the IRS in his law practice.  [NOTE:  I am saying that this attorney has worked in this area and can therefore be considered to have some knowledge.]  I described to him what is being said by those who say that the IRS criminal/civil investigation is over and that 3-ABN has been cleared and I asked him to comment on those statements.

His comment was:  What you have described is consistent what I have seen my my law practice as I have worked on cases that involved the IRS.  That is how the IRS operates.

Folks, people whom I trust, are not involved in any way with 3-ABN (They are objective), and have personal knowledge as to how the IRS works lead me to blieve that the IRS has cleared 3-ABN of criminal/civil wrong doing.

I believe the issue regarding the IRS is over.  I believe that 3-ABN has been cleared.  Personally I believe that there were two flaws in the charges that people made against 3-ABN and Danny Shelton:

1) The people who made the charges did not know what evidence existed that 3-ABN/Danny Shelton had to rebut the charges.  Folks, a one sided knowledge of an event is not enough to convict someone.  I would say that 3-ABN made this same error in some of their handeling of charges against Linda Shelton.     Now, in my opinion, some who have charged 3-ABN have committed the same error.  One side of the issue is neither fair nor enough to convict.  One must know and understand all sides of an issue before a decision is made.

2) I have been told by competent legal counsel that some of the IRS charges made against 3-ABN (specificly the sale of the house) were based upon a failure to understand the tax consequences of a property transaction that involved a "life estate."  But, once I am told that pople making a specific charge do not properly understand a major aspect of the tax law as it applied to the transaction, I have to assume that those making other charges may (?) not understand other aspects of tax law.


My personal opinon: Folks, like it or not, the IRS tax isssues are over.  3-ABN apears to have been cleared on the criminal and civil front.  Get on with your lives.  In overall summary, while the IRS did not consider other charges not related to tax issues, the failure of the charges related to IRS issues to be sustained is a major wound to the other charges.   If people making the charges can not get right an issue that is founded in established law and written records, most people will begin to question other charges that are more subjective.  If your are wrong in this, who is to say you are correct on other issues?
 

[Sam]

Earlier I posted a comment to the effect that I knew two peple who worked for the IRS.  They had told me that the comments regarding the IRS investigation of 3-ABN having ended accurately described how the IRS Works.

Today I spoke to a male (For those who are interested.) attorney who has worked on litigation against the IRS in his law practice.  [NOTE:  I am saying that this attorney has worked in this area and can therefore be considered to have some knowledge.]  I described to him what is being said by those who say that the IRS criminal/civil investigation is over and that 3-ABN has been cleared and I asked him to comment on those statements.

His comment was:  What you have described is consistent what I have seen my my law practice as I have worked on cases that involved the IRS.  That is how the IRS operates.

Folks, people whom I trust, are not involved in any way with 3-ABN (They are objective), and have personal knowledge as to how the IRS works lead me to blieve that the IRS has cleared 3-ABN of criminal/civil wrong doing.

I believe the issue regarding the IRS is over.  I believe that 3-ABN has been cleared.  Personally I believe that there were two flaws in the charges that people made against 3-ABN and Danny Shelton:

1) The people who made the charges did not know what evidence existed that 3-ABN/Danny Shelton had to rebut the charges.  Folks, a one sided knowledge of an event is not enough to convict someone.  I would say that 3-ABN made this same error in some of their handeling of charges against Linda Shelton.     Now, in my opinion, some who have charged 3-ABN have committed the same error.  One side of the issue is neither fair nor enough to convict.  One must know and understand all sides of an issue before a decision is made.

2) I have been told by competent legal counsel that some of the IRS charges made against 3-ABN (specificly the sale of the house) were based upon a failure to understand the tax consequences of a property transaction that involved a "life estate."  But, once I am told that pople making a specific charge do not properly understand a major aspect of the tax law as it applied to the transaction, I have to assume that those making other charges may (?) not understand other aspects of tax law.


My personal opinon: Folks, like it or not, the IRS tax isssues are over.  3-ABN apears to have been cleared on the criminal and civil front.  Get on with your lives.  In overall summary, while the IRS did not consider other charges not related to tax issues, the failure of the charges related to IRS issues to be sustained is a major wound to the other charges.   If people making the charges can not get right an issue that is founded in established law and written records, most people will begin to question other charges that are more subjective.  If your are wrong in this, who is to say you are correct on other issues?
 

Finally a voice of reason...it's a miracle.

Thanks GM for passing along the opinion of people who have had some experience with the IRS.  The denial of these findings have left me in shock. If 3abn's announcement that they were cleared were false;

1. The IRS would be all over them

2. The truth would eventually come out and the public would turn on 3abn

3. The law firm that handled the IRS case and dealt directly with the agents involved would be idiots to sign their names to a letter saying the investigation was over if they didn't know that to be a fact.

Now to me, this just appears to be some common sense reasoning.  Obviously others try and reason in a different direction.

[GrandmaNettie]

Intersting point Habanero. I can't really see DS 'approving' AT!

However, he may be 'using' them for his own ends? 

How sad.  It would see Ozzie that you also belong to the cult of Danny Shelton.  Who else would continue to attribute to him such power over others?  Maybe you had better warn AT and Mr. Schwantes you are on to something.  

Wow. At last we have someone acknowledging that DS has a cult-like following. A following that believes that he is anointed by God. That he is like Moses. That even if he is found to be doing evil, that is OK, because he's the 'anointed'.

Refreshing to see you actually posting more than your standard smilie filled, giddily tacit echos and cut downs.

About time that is is acknowledged that he has a following who believe that evil is good, that black is white;

Applying the breaks to look at your statements a little more closely... Whose thoughts are you parroting? Whose information have you taken as gospel?

that trashing one's ex-wife in front of the world is OK;

Not at all okay.... but then, it's okay to turn around and trash him, his chairman and the 3abn BOD, any of his supporters or family members as well as anybody who sees things differently than your leaders do in front of the whole world?

that diddling the books is fine;

This just may not turn out to be true, no matter how often Bob says it is so.  I think we're going to have to wait and see on this one as that whole IRS clearing 3ABN just might be true.

that using donations for God's work to sue fellow Christians is fine;

3abn is a private ministry.  It was built by the Shelton's, both Danny and Linda and others in the family.  It is not a part of the SDA deonomination even though the message they share is the one many conservative SDAs believe in and practice.  The donations they receive are given to support the ministry.  If the ministry must take legal measures, why is it a "sin" to use money that donors have donated to support this private ministry?  Why? Because Bob and Gailon have represented it as a sin to do so.  Our SDA denomination most likely has a budget for legal needs.  Where does that money come from?  Tithes and offerings?  If you step back a bit, Ozzie, perhaps you might see that Bob and Gailon went too far in their campaign to return 3abn to its conservative roots.  There are right ways to handle sin in others and there are wrongs ways as well.  IMO, Bob and Gailon diverted from ethical measures in their crusade and a lot of you bought it, hook line and sinker.

that scaring his then-wife with a firearm is the hallmark of a loving husband;

Did he brandish this firearm in her face or threaten her with it?  It was in the house.  As I recall this story, Linda was afraid that Danny was getting so unbalanced during the unraveling of their marriage that she was concerned about the gun he had, so she hid it.  

threatening other Christians who might go to a Camp Meeting is quite legit.

Whether it was kind or not, it was certainly legit.  This wasn't a case of Johann and Arild having an entitlement or a right to gather upon public property during that 2004 campmeeting, even though I believe their motives were good.  3ABN is a private ministry and, as such they can determine who they want to allow to attend their campmeetings and who they don't.

Yes. So sad that people can follow people like DS, David Koresh and others, but it's good to see that quaddie47 acknowledges that is so.

I can't understand the mentality of cult followers (or their leaders), but it is a relief to know that others are finally seeing it and that he 'uses' those people for his own ends. Thank you for pointing that out quaddie.

As for this Mother Duck, there's no way that I'll be leaning that way nor following like a hypnotised sheep. No siree![/b]

And yet, you have bought everything that Bob and Gailon have been selling.  You probably now believe that Sam is the "miscreant pastor hunter" as Gailon has concluded instead of Sam being Danny as he, and then you, used to espouse.  You probably believe that Gailon is telling the truth about Gregory Matthews betraying him and then Linda, simply because Gailon said so.  

Might be a good idea for you to do some research into understanding the mind of a cult leader so you can start to think and see for yourself.

[ex3abnemployee]

Now to me, this just appears to be some common sense reasoning.  Obviously others try and reason in a different direction.

And others make wild accusations and never produce proof. Still waiting, Sam.

[GrandmaNettie]

Now to me, this just appears to be some common sense reasoning.  Obviously others try and reason in a different direction.

And others make wild accusations and never produce proof. Still waiting, Sam.

Duane, I know it may not help, but I believe you.  I read the email and your statements, as well as your posts, and I believe you were manipulated into doing something you did not want to do by a person in authority that you trusted. 

Sam, for some reason, cannot grasp that a 19-year-old would not be consenting in a situation like this.  Perhaps someday Sam will more fully understand how this can and does happen.

A pastor friend of mine preached a wonderful sermon recentlly about relationships and the parable of the fig tree.  Many have misunderstand this parable and say it relates to the Children of Israel losing their place as God's people, or something along those lines.  Let's look at the verses; Mark 11: 12 - 14:

"12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it. "

What my pastor friend suggested this meant was "If you go to the fig tree when it is not the time for figs, don't be upset when you don't get figs." In other words, don't expect what another cannot give.  For whatever reason, Sam does not grasp that you were a victim, even at the ripe old age of 19.  Perhaps someday Sam will understand.  Just don't expect something from Sam that Sam cannot give.

[Snoopy]

From this post, it appears to me that some here are less concerned with the issues at 3ABN and more concerned with attacking Bob and Gailon.

It reminds me of the time I asked a friend who he was rooting for in a Dallas Cowboys football game.  His answer - "Whoever they are playing."

Intersting point Habanero. I can't really see DS 'approving' AT!

However, he may be 'using' them for his own ends? 

How sad.  It would see Ozzie that you also belong to the cult of Danny Shelton.  Who else would continue to attribute to him such power over others?  Maybe you had better warn AT and Mr. Schwantes you are on to something.  

Wow. At last we have someone acknowledging that DS has a cult-like following. A following that believes that he is anointed by God. That he is like Moses. That even if he is found to be doing evil, that is OK, because he's the 'anointed'.

Refreshing to see you actually posting more than your standard smilie filled, giddily tacit echos and cut downs.

About time that is is acknowledged that he has a following who believe that evil is good, that black is white;

Applying the breaks to look at your statements a little more closely... Whose thoughts are you parroting? Whose information have you taken as gospel?

that trashing one's ex-wife in front of the world is OK;

Not at all okay.... but then, it's okay to turn around and trash him, his chairman and the 3abn BOD, any of his supporters or family members as well as anybody who sees things differently than your leaders do in front of the whole world?

that diddling the books is fine;

This just may not turn out to be true, no matter how often Bob says it is so.  I think we're going to have to wait and see on this one as that whole IRS clearing 3ABN just might be true.

that using donations for God's work to sue fellow Christians is fine;

3abn is a private ministry.  It was built by the Shelton's, both Danny and Linda and others in the family.  It is not a part of the SDA deonomination even though the message they share is the one many conservative SDAs believe in and practice.  The donations they receive are given to support the ministry.  If the ministry must take legal measures, why is it a "sin" to use money that donors have donated to support this private ministry?  Why? Because Bob and Gailon have represented it as a sin to do so.  Our SDA denomination most likely has a budget for legal needs.  Where does that money come from?  Tithes and offerings?  If you step back a bit, Ozzie, perhaps you might see that Bob and Gailon went too far in their campaign to return 3abn to its conservative roots.  There are right ways to handle sin in others and there are wrongs ways as well.  IMO, Bob and Gailon diverted from ethical measures in their crusade and a lot of you bought it, hook line and sinker.

that scaring his then-wife with a firearm is the hallmark of a loving husband;

Did he brandish this firearm in her face or threaten her with it?  It was in the house.  As I recall this story, Linda was afraid that Danny was getting so unbalanced during the unraveling of their marriage that she was concerned about the gun he had, so she hid it.  

threatening other Christians who might go to a Camp Meeting is quite legit.

Whether it was kind or not, it was certainly legit.  This wasn't a case of Johann and Arild having an entitlement or a right to gather upon public property during that 2004 campmeeting, even though I believe their motives were good.  3ABN is a private ministry and, as such they can determine who they want to allow to attend their campmeetings and who they don't.

Yes. So sad that people can follow people like DS, David Koresh and others, but it's good to see that quaddie47 acknowledges that is so.

I can't understand the mentality of cult followers (or their leaders), but it is a relief to know that others are finally seeing it and that he 'uses' those people for his own ends. Thank you for pointing that out quaddie.

As for this Mother Duck, there's no way that I'll be leaning that way nor following like a hypnotised sheep. No siree![/b]

And yet, you have bought everything that Bob and Gailon have been selling.  You probably now believe that Sam is the "miscreant pastor hunter" as Gailon has concluded instead of Sam being Danny as he, and then you, used to espouse.  You probably believe that Gailon is telling the truth about Gregory Matthews betraying him and then Linda, simply because Gailon said so.  

Might be a good idea for you to do some research into understanding the mind of a cult leader so you can start to think and see for yourself.

[ex3abnemployee]

Now to me, this just appears to be some common sense reasoning.  Obviously others try and reason in a different direction.

And others make wild accusations and never produce proof. Still waiting, Sam.

Duane, I know it may not help, but I believe you.  I read the email and your statements, as well as your posts, and I believe you were manipulated into doing something you did not want to do by a person in authority that you trusted. 

Sam, for some reason, cannot grasp that a 19-year-old would not be consenting in a situation like this.  Perhaps someday Sam will more fully understand how this can and does happen.

A pastor friend of mine preached a wonderful sermon recentlly about relationships and the parable of the fig tree.  Many have misunderstand this parable and say it relates to the Children of Israel losing their place as God's people, or something along those lines.  Let's look at the verses; Mark 11: 12 - 14:

"12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it. "

What my pastor friend suggested this meant was "If you go to the fig tree when it is not the time for figs, don't be upset when you don't get figs." In other words, don't expect what another cannot give.  For whatever reason, Sam does not grasp that you were a victim, even at the ripe old age of 19.  Perhaps someday Sam will understand.  Just don't expect something from Sam that Sam cannot give.

Thank you, GrandmaNettie.

I believe Sam knows full well what happened. The insinuation was posted simply to cast doubt on my character. The funny thing is, though, that such posts don't help Tommy, either.

I know the truth. No amount of accusations from Sam or anyone else will change that.

[Sam]

Now to me, this just appears to be some common sense reasoning.  Obviously others try and reason in a different direction.

And others make wild accusations and never produce proof. Still waiting, Sam.

Duane you are not proving a thing by trying to antagonize me.  I know what I read on BSDA on another forum..I believe it was christian forums, could be wrong. In many posts you didn't tell the truth by omission.  Do I want to waste my time by searching for what I know I read? Not hardly. But, I read several post where someone "sympathized" as they had been molested as a child. You answered those posts in an appreciative way without ever mentioning that you were not a child.  As far as I'm concerned that is being dishonest. You did the exact same thing when you first started posting at BSDA by calling yourself ex employee. It gave the impression that you knew what you were talking about in regards to 3abn and day to day operations. You failed to mention that you had not been an employee for 20+ years when you worked at the old original building with a skeleton crew. You didn't mention that you had never sat foot inside the "new"  3abn with a work force of 140 people and therefore had no knowedge of anything that applied to present day 3abn or the people there.

That fact in itself shoots down your other claims that "you know Danny" and you were told "all the Shelton's knew" etc etc.  You don't know someone that you haven't had contact with in 20 years and had very limited contact before that.  You don't know what the Shelton's know or didn't know if you haven't had contact with any of them personally. Not to mention there are a lot of Shelton's but you just group the family together as a whole.  What if I said "All the Clems think you shouldn't have been taken off of the bus ministry".  Maybe some of them do and maybe some of them don't. How could I know when I haven't talked to any of the clems.  People can say anything...doesn't make it so and the public is finding that out.

There are a lot more discrepancies I have seen from you but won't waste time pointing them out.  I've made up my mind about what is truth and your omissions or claims aren't a factor in my conclusions.

[Snoopy]

Well thanks for that tip sammy, but that already came through, LOUD AND CLEAR!!!

By the way, you sound like an exceptionally angry person.  I feel badly for you.

Duane you are not proving a thing by trying to antagonize me.  I know what I read on BSDA on another forum..I believe it was christian forums, could be wrong. In many posts you didn't tell the truth by omission.  Do I want to waste my time by searching for what I know I read? Not hardly. But, I read several post where someone "sympathized" as they had been molested as a child. You answered those posts in an appreciative way without ever mentioning that you were not a child.  As far as I'm concerned that is being dishonest. You did the exact same thing when you first started posting at BSDA by calling yourself ex employee. It gave the impression that you knew what you were talking about in regards to 3abn and day to day operations. You failed to mention that you had not been an employee for 20+ years when you worked at the old original building with a skeleton crew. You didn't mention that you had never sat foot inside the "new"  3abn with a work force of 140 people and therefore had no knowedge of anything that applied to present day 3abn or the people there.

That fact in itself shoots down your other claims that "you know Danny" and you were told "all the Shelton's knew" etc etc.  You don't know someone that you haven't had contact with in 20 years and had very limited contact before that.  You don't know what the Shelton's know or didn't know if you haven't had contact with any of them personally. Not to mention there are a lot of Shelton's but you just group the family together as a whole.  What if I said "All the Clems think you shouldn't have been taken off of the bus ministry".  Maybe some of them do and maybe some of them don't. How could I know when I haven't talked to any of the clems.  People can say anything...doesn't make it so and the public is finding that out.

There are a lot more discrepancies I have seen from you but won't waste time pointing them out.  I've made up my mind about what is truth and your omissions or claims aren't a factor in my conclusions.

[GrandmaNettie]

Speaking to you as a member and not a moderator, Snoopy, isn't it rather condescending to speak to Sam using "sammy"?  Aren't we endeavoring to  post our opinions respectfully?

Duane, Sam, Snoopy... people process things differently.  I learned recently in a seminar given by Ron and Nancy Rockey that one's perception becomes one's reality.  There is much history going on there that won't be resolved here on Adventtalk, IMO. You are eacj important and valuable children of our Creator, whatever has transpired.  Just try to accept and embrace your own value in His eyes and let Him show you how much He loves each of you, sinful or not.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

From this post, it appears to me that some here are less concerned with the issues at 3ABN and more concerned with attacking Bob and Gailon.

It reminds me of the time I asked a friend who he was rooting for in a Dallas Cowboys football game.  His answer - "Whoever they are playing."

Intersting point Habanero. I can't really see DS 'approving' AT!

However, he may be 'using' them for his own ends? 

How sad.  It would see Ozzie that you also belong to the cult of Danny Shelton.  Who else would continue to attribute to him such power over others?  Maybe you had better warn AT and Mr. Schwantes you are on to something.  

Wow. At last we have someone acknowledging that DS has a cult-like following. A following that believes that he is anointed by God. That he is like Moses. That even if he is found to be doing evil, that is OK, because he's the 'anointed'.

Refreshing to see you actually posting more than your standard smilie filled, giddily tacit echos and cut downs.

About time that is is acknowledged that he has a following who believe that evil is good, that black is white;

Applying the breaks to look at your statements a little more closely... Whose thoughts are you parroting? Whose information have you taken as gospel?

that trashing one's ex-wife in front of the world is OK;

Not at all okay.... but then, it's okay to turn around and trash him, his chairman and the 3abn BOD, any of his supporters or family members as well as anybody who sees things differently than your leaders do in front of the whole world?

that diddling the books is fine;

This just may not turn out to be true, no matter how often Bob says it is so.  I think we're going to have to wait and see on this one as that whole IRS clearing 3ABN just might be true.

that using donations for God's work to sue fellow Christians is fine;

3abn is a private ministry.  It was built by the Shelton's, both Danny and Linda and others in the family.  It is not a part of the SDA deonomination even though the message they share is the one many conservative SDAs believe in and practice.  The donations they receive are given to support the ministry.  If the ministry must take legal measures, why is it a "sin" to use money that donors have donated to support this private ministry?  Why? Because Bob and Gailon have represented it as a sin to do so.  Our SDA denomination most likely has a budget for legal needs.  Where does that money come from?  Tithes and offerings?  If you step back a bit, Ozzie, perhaps you might see that Bob and Gailon went too far in their campaign to return 3abn to its conservative roots.  There are right ways to handle sin in others and there are wrongs ways as well.  IMO, Bob and Gailon diverted from ethical measures in their crusade and a lot of you bought it, hook line and sinker.

that scaring his then-wife with a firearm is the hallmark of a loving husband;

Did he brandish this firearm in her face or threaten her with it?  It was in the house.  As I recall this story, Linda was afraid that Danny was getting so unbalanced during the unraveling of their marriage that she was concerned about the gun he had, so she hid it.  

threatening other Christians who might go to a Camp Meeting is quite legit.

Whether it was kind or not, it was certainly legit.  This wasn't a case of Johann and Arild having an entitlement or a right to gather upon public property during that 2004 campmeeting, even though I believe their motives were good.  3ABN is a private ministry and, as such they can determine who they want to allow to attend their campmeetings and who they don't.

Yes. So sad that people can follow people like DS, David Koresh and others, but it's good to see that quaddie47 acknowledges that is so.

I can't understand the mentality of cult followers (or their leaders), but it is a relief to know that others are finally seeing it and that he 'uses' those people for his own ends. Thank you for pointing that out quaddie.

As for this Mother Duck, there's no way that I'll be leaning that way nor following like a hypnotised sheep. No siree![/b]

And yet, you have bought everything that Bob and Gailon have been selling.  You probably now believe that Sam is the "miscreant pastor hunter" as Gailon has concluded instead of Sam being Danny as he, and then you, used to espouse.  You probably believe that Gailon is telling the truth about Gregory Matthews betraying him and then Linda, simply because Gailon said so.  

Might be a good idea for you to do some research into understanding the mind of a cult leader so you can start to think and see for yourself.

Some people are simply concerned about their browny points to avoid potential litigation. And others simply ignore the truth.

Grandma has yet to find the truth...probably because she is too busy trying to play both sides and the middle. But then who can blame her? After all, she is still searching for the truth. What is it that Og Mandino wrote? Something about diamonds right in your own back yard. Maybe, the truth is there as well. Never know until you get a shovel and start digging!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Earlier I posted a comment to the effect that I knew two peple who worked for the IRS.  They had told me that the comments regarding the IRS investigation of 3-ABN having ended accurately described how the IRS Works.

Today I spoke to a male (For those who are interested.) attorney who has worked on litigation against the IRS in his law practice.  [NOTE:  I am saying that this attorney has worked in this area and can therefore be considered to have some knowledge.]  I described to him what is being said by those who say that the IRS criminal/civil investigation is over and that 3-ABN has been cleared and I asked him to comment on those statements.

His comment was:  What you have described is consistent what I have seen my my law practice as I have worked on cases that involved the IRS.  That is how the IRS operates.

Folks, people whom I trust, are not involved in any way with 3-ABN (They are objective), and have personal knowledge as to how the IRS works lead me to blieve that the IRS has cleared 3-ABN of criminal/civil wrong doing.

I believe the issue regarding the IRS is over.  I believe that 3-ABN has been cleared.  Personally I believe that there were two flaws in the charges that people made against 3-ABN and Danny Shelton:

1) The people who made the charges did not know what evidence existed that 3-ABN/Danny Shelton had to rebut the charges.  Folks, a one sided knowledge of an event is not enough to convict someone.  I would say that 3-ABN made this same error in some of their handeling of charges against Linda Shelton.     Now, in my opinion, some who have charged 3-ABN have committed the same error.  One side of the issue is neither fair nor enough to convict.  One must know and understand all sides of an issue before a decision is made.

2) I have been told by competent legal counsel that some of the IRS charges made against 3-ABN (specificly the sale of the house) were based upon a failure to understand the tax consequences of a property transaction that involved a "life estate."  But, once I am told that pople making a specific charge do not properly understand a major aspect of the tax law as it applied to the transaction, I have to assume that those making other charges may (?) not understand other aspects of tax law.


My personal opinon: Folks, like it or not, the IRS tax isssues are over.  3-ABN apears to have been cleared on the criminal and civil front.  Get on with your lives.  In overall summary, while the IRS did not consider other charges not related to tax issues, the failure of the charges related to IRS issues to be sustained is a major wound to the other charges.   If people making the charges can not get right an issue that is founded in established law and written records, most people will begin to question other charges that are more subjective.  If your are wrong in this, who is to say you are correct on other issues?

Two questions, Mr Matthews:

1) Did your "competent counsel" tell you whether the IRS issues a file closed letter? And if so, where is it? Wouldn't you want to see that file closed letter, Mr Gregory, before you came to such a strong opinion?

2) Since the IRS has "exonerated 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton", would you recommend and expect that they would add the IRS investigators to the 3ABN and DLS Witness list? Now that would be a real feather in their cap to bring in the investigative staff to testify on behalf of 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton. Particularly since they "did not find a single thing wrong" Would not even debate the relevance of such an important witness, would you?

Well let me make it clear that we have already added one to our list and that is how certain we are that YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!!!

They are not cleared on the civil front, Mr Matthews, and we are CERTAIN of it!!! I do not have clarity on the criminal question and I am not convinced 3ABN does either and your statements are PURE CONJECTURE at the very best. Your analysis is clearly challenged and based upon incomplete, self induced prejudice and a fear driven need to stay out of the fray. But be sure to ask your "competent legal counsel" if a file simply closes with a request for document return without an inocuous file closed notice? Then analyse again. Practice makes perfect, they say!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Snoopy]

It might be, GrandmaNettie.  But, with the standard you and Sam have set with the way you both address Gailon and Bob, I would say I am NOT EVEN CLOSE to being condescending.  And I might also have to refer you back to your very own "PKB Syndrome"...

Speaking to you as a member and not a moderator, Snoopy, isn't it rather condescending to speak to Sam using "sammy"?  Aren't we endeavoring to  post our opinions respectfully?

[anyman]

It is amazing how you love to leave out information! You have yet to comment on something where you haven't altered commentary, haven't left out key words, phrases, maybe even the majority of an email (yea, go ahead and demand that I comment on things, such as the title, "investigation", gun and other issues you have mangled the emails about so they can be used by yourself and your umpa lumpas to try and make your case).

The IRS doesn't issue "official" letters, but they also do not like or even at times allow commentary by those being investigated - yet they have allowed Atty. Duffy to comment on this issue. Why? Possibly because an effective request was made, based on the fact that your false allegations need to be addressed, and granted.

Mr. Gailon Arthur Joy, yourself, and others have attempted to get others to believe that there is not clearance by the IRS, but time and again, individuals of far greater integrity have substantiated the claims. Even Fran has demonstrated she is afraid to share the information form her inside informants in the IRS (think they could get fired for sharing with her information?)  . . . why is she afraid, maybe because she has already discovered the that the information out there is T R U E! Something you wouldn't ever want to face, much less admit! Get used to having your scurrilously allegations being disproved as it is going to become a regular experience.

You can go ahead and yammer on about what "you" think needs to be addressed, but based on all the information submitted to the IRS by you, Fran, and others . . . somehow it seems impossible that they "missed" anything. It would make sense, when one considers the IRS thorough behavior, that if they thought there was something to dig into they would have dug into it . . . so, IF they found something amiss in the years stated thus far, they would have dug into past, no ALL years concerned . . . but it is evident they didn't find anything amiss, didn't dig into other years and you are left with nothing but your H o l l o w (can you hear the echo) claims that you tenaciously cling to hoping you won't look foolish in the end.

There still is no exoneration from the IRS, according to Duffy's letter. And no explanation for Danny's 2005 claim that he had reported a donation of property as cash on his 2003 return.

And according to Duffy's letter, no documents dealing with the 1998 house deal were produced to the IRS.

[ex3abnemployee]

Duane you are not proving a thing by trying to antagonize me.  I know what I read on BSDA on another forum..I believe it was christian forums, could be wrong. In many posts you didn't tell the truth by omission.  Do I want to waste my time by searching for what I know I read? Not hardly. But, I read several post where someone "sympathized" as they had been molested as a child. You answered those posts in an appreciative way without ever mentioning that you were not a child.  As far as I'm concerned that is being dishonest.

Wow. Talk about grasping at straws.

My statement has been online for quite some time now. I have no way of knowing who has read it and who hasn't. For all I knew the people who posted had read my statement and knew I was 19 when it happened. Why would I try to mislead anyone when my statement had already been out there for awhile?

At NO time did I insinuate that I was a child when the abuse occured. You made a false accusation.

You did the exact same thing when you first started posting at BSDA by calling yourself ex employee. It gave the impression that you knew what you were talking about in regards to 3abn and day to day operations. You failed to mention that you had not been an employee for 20+ years when you worked at the old original building with a skeleton crew.

Again, no dishonesty here. I AM an ex-employee of 3ABN. If anyone reads all that other stuff into it that's their problem, not mine. Do you want me to change my screen name to ex3abnemployeewhohasntworkedthereforover20yearsandhasnoknowledgeofcurrentdaytodayoperations? Would that be "honest" enough?

You didn't mention that you had never sat foot inside the "new"  3abn with a work force of 140 people and therefore had no knowedge of anything that applied to present day 3abn or the people there.

Actually, I HAVE been in the new building on several occasions, but thanks for playing!

That fact in itself shoots down your other claims that "you know Danny" and you were told "all the Shelton's knew" etc etc.  You don't know someone that you haven't had contact with in 20 years and had very limited contact before that.  You don't know what the Shelton's know or didn't know if you haven't had contact with any of them personally. Not to mention there are a lot of Shelton's but you just group the family together as a whole.

I said I was told many of the Sheltons knew, not all. Don't put words in my mouth.

Yes, I know that there are many Sheltons. I also know that some of them don't approve of the way things are being handled at 3ABN currently.

  What if I said "All the Clems think you shouldn't have been taken off of the bus ministry".  Maybe some of them do and maybe some of them don't. How could I know when I haven't talked to any of the clems.  People can say anything...doesn't make it so and the public is finding that out.

Poor attempt at a cheap shot, Sam. I told you before, trying to make me angry and blow up doesn't work anymore. You need to let Tommy know that the next time he suggests something for you to post.

I am working in youth ministry again, as God has called me to do. You're trying to dredge up things in the past that are irrelevant.

There are a lot more discrepancies I have seen from you but won't waste time pointing them out.  I've made up my mind about what is truth and your omissions or claims aren't a factor in my conclusions.

No, you haven't seen more discrepancies. You're still just trying to cast doubt on my character.

I'll tell you this. I have learned to let the Lord fight my battles. He has a way of dealing with false accusations against those who minister for Him. I'm not too concerned about what you or anyone else can do to me.