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[anyman]

For those inclined to make a determination yourself, you can read a copy of the actually letter, unedited, sans commentary at the following link: http://is.gd/38Sw this supports all of Junebug's claims - and there is no doubt, should be none, that you have a copy of this letter in your possession Mr. Pickle.

Mr. Pickle, post the exact document, in .pdf or .jpg format indicating you have not altered it in any way, by Att'y Kingsbury so that context can be understood. Your claiming that a statement was made and that it was made in the way you insinuate is not substantial because it, more than likely, is based on your strategic manipulation of her words.  There is no credibility to your claims any more, if there ever was.

It would appear as if, by the statement of a licensed, practicing attorney who, if his claims were false risks disbarment, your last comment is fallacious. Junebug insults no one, in fact I would suspect she applauds them for a job well done. Since, according to the above referenced letter from Att'y Duffy indicates that documents from both 3ABN and Danny spanning a six year period, 2000 - 2006 were part of the investigation. His final paragraph is rather definitive:

"The results speak loudly to how well managed 3ABN is and to the dedication of its employees and your Board of Directors. It also speaks loudly to the diligence Danny Shelton uses in conducting his own personal affairs."

Your final claim maybe due to your lack of expertise and understanding of tax law, which is understandable since you are not a tax attorney. The facts of the matter seem to indicate that this issue was investigated and were found to be in order. Why don't you contact the lead investigator and see if she can clear it up for you.

Junebug, since you have failed to produce any evidence to support your mere assertions, I think you are the one who is spinning.

Think about it: Do you really think Kristin Kingsbury would falsely indicate on Sept. 10 that 100,000 pages of documents were still in the IRS's possession if they really were destroyed like Danny Shelton claimed?

And do you really want to insult the dedicated men and women who serve in the IRS by claiming that they didn't think Danny's falsification of a figure on his 2003 tax return was a violation?

[Bob Pickle]

anyman, anyone reading the letter can see that I quoted it correctly.

If you want to read Kingsbury's statement, have a look at PACER. If you want to read our response, it's there too.

Your final comment is utterly ludicrous. Danny claimed that he had reported a donation of a horse or horses as $20,000 in cash on his 2003 Schedule A, and that is a violation, clear and simple. For you to assert otherwise is utterly ludicrous.

Or are you asserting that horses are cash, and that you can go down to the grocery store, buy some things, and the cashier will say, "That will be 5% of a horse please," and then you slice a 20th off your horse and give it to her, and then you head over to the gas station to fill up your car and ....

By the way, once your horse is missing a couple legs and such, how do you haul the rest of the carcass around? And do you have to spend it all before it decays? Or do you use a special preservative? Or can you only spend your cash horse on high ticket items, like new cars or down payments on homes or TV stations?

[bonnie]

I mean really--think about it. Fran and Bonnie and Joy and Pickle turn 3abn and Danny Shelton in to the IRS. (You all know that the IRS pays squealers 10% of the booty right? up to around 5 million dollars!!! They thought they could make some big money!! ). The IRS looked at what they presented and decided to do an inquisition not only of 3abn but also Danny Shelton. And 3abn and Danny complied since they had NOTHING to hide.  ALL Danny's personal financial dealings were closely examined as only the IRS can obviously they had to find something for their troubles.

And what do you know! Nothing illegal turned up!! NOTHING.

JuneBug Think about it is good advice for you before you start throwing names around as if you actually know what you are talking about. The lawsuit was well in progress before I had much of an interest. I did not turn 3ABN into the IRS.
You seem to think that you can call the IRS and accuse someone or a business or other entity of wrongdoing. I have no information other than what has been posted. The IRS would have shrugged off any complaint I would have made had I done so.

The IRS has to have some pretty good information before they begin a very expensive investigation. The fact that they did have an investigation means they either had questions on their own or whoever pursued this complaint had some information that looked credible. I had none. You have nothing to base your accusation on that I was somehow involved in this. Do I believe DS was honest. NO!!!!!!!!!! Do I believe he was ignorant of what he was asking LS and the recipient of the horses to do NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of you seem to like to throw around names without having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Is this the type of accurate information you typically provide??

Had I had credible information concerning DS or his financial dealings of 3ABN,I would have turned him in and you and everyone else would have known I had done so.
I do not hide behind anonymity, nor would I have done so for any reward you say "squealers get".

 

No matter how you all want to spin it--and lie about it--the truth is there for you to see IF you want to see it. But you don't want to see it--so you will continue to spin and spin and spin more.  Like this little hamster going in circles    

So carry on with your spinning.  You are going nowhere like all spinners do. 

Perhaps you have a space reserved for yourself for those going nowhere. Seems you don't worry about accuracy which is what you accuse others of

[bonnie]

I mean really--think about it. Fran and Bonnie and Joy and Pickle turn 3abn and Danny Shelton in to the IRS. (You all know that the IRS pays squealers 10% of the booty right? up to around 5 million dollars!!! They thought they could make some big money!! ). The IRS looked at what they presented and decided to do an inquisition not only of 3abn but also Danny Shelton.

The more I read this the less respect I have for anything you have ever posted.
As for me thinking I would make big money,you are laughable and not truthful. That seems to be the ping pong ball tossed back and forth between the two sides. I saw nothing of substance in what you posted. I saw no reason to believe you were above what you were accusing others of. Quite frankly there are elements on both sides that flat out deserve each other. 

You are completely ignorant when you say the "IRS looked" and decided to do an inquistion.  They don't decide unless they see something of substance.  Then they do something called an audit or investigation.  Nor do they apologize for conducting an investigation. That is their job. That was another totally ignorant statement or a deliberate untruth. Nor can they or do they demand silence from the taxpayer concerning his own financial affairs. That is another untruth.
I do believe there was a resolution but not quite the way DS described.

If the IRS has an IQ that reaches double digits of course they would or will investigate DS personal finances.

Just make sure when you decide to speak for me or tell me and the online community what I have done,you make some attempt at confirming before you run off at the mouth. You won't need to guess, say something that is not true.
I would tell you if you had the integrity to ask before you accuse

[Bob Pickle]

Had I had credible information concerning DS or his financial dealings of 3ABN,I would have turned him in ....

Makes sense to me. In fact, Harold Lance told me that some of these matters are things the authorities are supposed to deal with, not us. What he meant was that we shouldn't be talking about the child molestation allegations, if I recall correctly. I didn't agree with him on that, for I feel we should express our concerns.

But others have told me that the way the mess was going to have to be cleaned up was for the authorities to do it. No one else has any real authority except the Board, and they have had problems doing what needs to be done.

[Snoopy]

It appears that they have had problems just knowing what is going on...   

Makes sense to me. In fact, Harold Lance told me that some of these matters are things the authorities are supposed to deal with, not us. What he meant was that we shouldn't be talking about the child molestation allegations, if I recall correctly. I didn't agree with him on that, for I feel we should express our concerns.

But others have told me that the way the mess was going to have to be cleaned up was for the authorities to do it. No one else has any real authority except the Board, and they have had problems doing what needs to be done.

[Snoopy]

Bonnie, I never got the impression from anything you have posted that you turned 3ABN in to the IRS.  I understood you to have had your own experience with the IRS that you shared with us, along with your obvious expertise with horses and barns and the business side of all that, which I have found very enlightening.  But nothing like what you have been accused of.  Maybe Junebug could post a link to where she came up with that one.

The more I read this the less respect I have for anything you have ever posted.
As for me thinking I would make big money,you are laughable and not truthful. That seems to be the ping pong ball tossed back and forth between the two sides. I saw nothing of substance in what you posted. I saw no reason to believe you were above what you were accusing others of. Quite frankly there are elements on both sides that flat out deserve each other. 

You are completely ignorant when you say the "IRS looked" and decided to do an inquistion.  They don't decide unless they see something of substance.  Then they do something called an audit or investigation.  Nor do they apologize for conducting an investigation. That is their job. That was another totally ignorant statement or a deliberate untruth. Nor can they or do they demand silence from the taxpayer concerning his own financial affairs. That is another untruth.
I do believe there was a resolution but not quite the way DS described.

If the IRS has an IQ that reaches double digits of course they would or will investigate DS personal finances.

Just make sure when you decide to speak for me or tell me and the online community what I have done,you make some attempt at confirming before you run off at the mouth. You won't need to guess, say something that is not true.
I would tell you if you had the integrity to ask before you accuse

[bonnie]

Bonnie, I never got the impression from anything you have posted that you turned 3ABN in to the IRS.  I understood you to have had your own experience with the IRS that you shared with us, along with your obvious expertise with horses and barns and the business side of all that, which I have found very enlightening.  But nothing like what you have been accused of.  Maybe Junebug could post a link to where she came up with that one.

Facts are not necessary by some. Accusations are made without any regard for facts. Or facts or statements are twisted into shape by some that excel in wordsmithing. Unfortunately I have seen both sides do this.

Since I have not participated in the 3AN forums recently, it has been interesting to watch those that like to give this topic a little kick to wake it up and keep it going. All the pious handwringing about gossip is pretty much said for effect.

I am firmly convinced that DS has an ego the size of Texas and needs to be fed. No matter how or what is said if it is about him it serves his purpose. If not he would make it known to the "faithful DS followers" that their participation in this ugly mess souled cease. By doing so much of what the anti -DS crowd presents would fall on deaf ears. Without someone to carry the next round,it wold stop. All the so-called anti gossip crowd would be instrumental in shutting the gossip down. Both sides enjoy it to much to restrict their role and put a stop to it
 I don't think DS minds what he refers to as gossip. Rather I think he is delighted when faithful followers accommodate his wishes. Nor do I think that is one sided.

[anyman]

anyman, anyone reading the letter can see that I quoted it correctly.

Let's be clear here, I did not accuse you of misquoting, but rather manipulating the quote to say something it does not. You are reading intent, suggesting you know what the writer "meant to say" when in fact you don't and are merely offering an analysis that, though incorrect, you use to justify your insinuation.

If you want to read Kingsbury's statement, have a look at PACER. If you want to read our response, it's there too.

Interesting that you are so demanding when it comes to evidence and always attempt to ring yourself around the mulberry bush when someone challenges you to do the same. I posted a link to the full text of the letter referenced by you and Junebug. There it is for all to see. You come along and refuse to document your claims with anything other than an "I said so . . ." Not very convincing, not convincing at all.

Your final comment is utterly ludicrous. Danny claimed that he had reported a donation of a horse or horses as $20,000 in cash on his 2003 Schedule A, and that is a violation, clear and simple. For you to assert otherwise is utterly ludicrous.

Well, you don't seem to have a leg to stand on since the IRS, that agency charged by the Federal Government to check out any potential wrongs in the tax system, didn't find anything wrong. If there was a violation made in any of the tax filings of 3ABN or Danny (and since you have recently focused so much of your time and energy on Danny it appears this has become personal) they would have done something about it. No IRS action = No violations. Again, I think your mistakes here are due to the lack of expertise on the subject and in this area of tax law - again understandable since you haven't trained for it are coming at it from a amateur/novice stand point.

[bonnie]

There it is for all to see. You come along and refuse to document your claims with anything other than an "I said so . . ." Not very convincing, not convincing at all.

You do exactly the same thing,or quote DS's denial. If you cannot prove outside of that why do you insist others offer more than you can or are willing to do. I am not a cheerleader for Gailon and Bob,however what I would demand from them should also include the same demand to you

Well, you don't seem to have a leg to stand on since the IRS, that agency charged by the Federal Government to check out any potential wrongs in the tax system, didn't find anything wrong. If there was a violation made in any of the tax filings of 3ABN or Danny (and since you have recently focused so much of your time and energy on Danny it appears this has become personal) they would have done something about it. No IRS action = No violations. Again, I think your mistakes here are due to the lack of expertise on the subject and in this area of tax law - again understandable since you haven't trained for it are coming at it from a amateur/novice stand point.

You and Bob seem to be trying to stand on the same leg. There are some that claim a great deal of expertise when it comes to the IRS. I do not have that expertise, but during a very lengthy and not very cordial audit my tax attorney (former IRS agent who had conducted many audits) explained some of the rule book an auditor goes by. They are very good at what they do.  Some that circumvent the rules are also quite good at what they do.
As to DS personal audit, you can say what you wish and demand people believe you. Unless there were a trial, no one is going to know what took place. DS is also very good at reasons he can't be more forth coming in this. After all the IRS demanded DS maintain secrecy. That is the biggest whooee that the Pro-3ABN crowd have used to date.
Ranking right behind that is an aopolgy from the IRS for doing their job.
No one is going to know what DS's private finances showed.

No IRS action = No violations. Again, I think your mistakes here are due to the lack of expertise on the subject and in this area of tax law - again understandable since you haven't trained for it are coming at it from a amateur/novice stand point.

Am I to understand that you have this expertise on the subject. Please elaborate because as far as I know you do not.
If that is so, then might someone say to you that you have not been trained in this area of law??


Other than a few words by supposedly reputable people on your side of the aisle, nothing of substance has been offered as far as proof.


We have DS praising DS.We have the attorneys praising DS and 3ABN,we have Doug Batchelor praising DS and 3ABN,  we have several names here doing same.
Can you offer what you demand of others? I would believe the way you take after others you certainly have the proof and are just waiting for someone to ask politely.
I am sure there are others that would join me in saying ,PLease can you show proof of your claims and DS claims

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Junebug, since you have failed to produce any evidence to support your mere assertions, I think you are the one who is spinning.

Think about it: Do you really think Kristin Kingsbury would falsely indicate on Sept. 10 that 100,000 pages of documents were still in the IRS's possession if they really were destroyed like Danny Shelton claimed?

And do you really want to insult the dedicated men and women who serve in the IRS by claiming that they didn't think Danny's falsification of a figure on his 2003 tax return was a violation?

Bob,

Take satisfaction that we have the evidence that will clarify all and puts 3ABN and DLS in defensive mode. Corruption, is corruption. The only remaining issue is just how deep we bury them!!! About 6000 feet down would be good. Don't want any chance these miscreants ever rise to corrupt again!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Anyman,

THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE is simply not that incompetent!!!The issues are now so blatant and such a violation of law, they would have had to work with blinders to be that incioompetent. YOU ARE PATHETICALLY
DELUSIONAL!!!

Be careful, or your wife may have to contribute to this debate!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

anyman, anyone reading the letter can see that I quoted it correctly.

Let's be clear here, I did not accuse you of misquoting, but rather manipulating the quote to say something it does not. You are reading intent, suggesting you know what the writer "meant to say" when in fact you don't and are merely offering an analysis that, though incorrect, you use to justify your insinuation.

If you want to read Kingsbury's statement, have a look at PACER. If you want to read our response, it's there too.

Interesting that you are so demanding when it comes to evidence and always attempt to ring yourself around the mulberry bush when someone challenges you to do the same. I posted a link to the full text of the letter referenced by you and Junebug. There it is for all to see. You come along and refuse to document your claims with anything other than an "I said so . . ." Not very convincing, not convincing at all.

Your final comment is utterly ludicrous. Danny claimed that he had reported a donation of a horse or horses as $20,000 in cash on his 2003 Schedule A, and that is a violation, clear and simple. For you to assert otherwise is utterly ludicrous.

Well, you don't seem to have a leg to stand on since the IRS, that agency charged by the Federal Government to check out any potential wrongs in the tax system, didn't find anything wrong. If there was a violation made in any of the tax filings of 3ABN or Danny (and since you have recently focused so much of your time and energy on Danny it appears this has become personal) they would have done something about it. No IRS action = No violations. Again, I think your mistakes here are due to the lack of expertise on the subject and in this area of tax law - again understandable since you haven't trained for it are coming at it from a amateur/novice stand point.

[anyman]

You do exactly the same thing,or quote DS's denial. If you cannot prove outside of that why do you insist others offer more than you can or are willing to do. I am not a cheerleader for Gailon and Bob,however what I would demand from them should also include the same demand to you

I posted a link to an unedited document that contained no analysis. It wasn't from Mr. Shelton, it was from Att'y Duffy. Following that, Mr. Pickle made a reference to comments made by another attorney - without even so much as a link to an article that could be read. Why  you ask? I am guessing because Mr. Pickle has taken the attorney's words out of context and presented them as saying what they do not - he has done it time and again for two years now. Mr. Pickle knows it is too dangerous to allow his followers to read the documents because they may arrive at a different understanding and that wouldn't be beneficial to his keeping his followers talking on point - to hard to manage the propaganda machine if you allow them to read and think for themselves.

Am I to understand that you have this expertise on the subject. Please elaborate because as far as I know you do not.
If that is so, then might someone say to you that you have not been trained in this area of law??

No, I am not certified in tax law and code. However, I do believe the statements made by Att'y Duffy - I have no reason to disbelieve him and no reason to believe Fran or Mr's Joy or Pickle. Fran's inside contacts have failed her and she seems to have not been able to get the IRS to return her calls. We'll see what the judge says about the subpoena to the IRS and if the IRS will comply should the judge approve. Don't hold your breath, I am sure the judge is getting rather tired of the misuse of process being foisted on the system with Mr's Joy and Pickle's endless antics. Thus feel no concern making the statement that the IRS levied no fines, filed no suit, and cleared both 3ABN and Danny Shelton of the accusations against them.

[bonnie]

I posted a link to an unedited document that contained no analysis. It wasn't from Mr. Shelton, it was from Att'y Duffy. Following that, Mr. Pickle made a reference to comments made by another attorney - without even so much as a link to an article that could be read. Why  you ask? I am guessing because Mr. Pickle has taken the attorney's words out of context and presented them as saying what they do not - he has done it time and again for two years now. Mr. Pickle knows it is too dangerous to allow his followers to read the documents because they may arrive at a different understanding and that wouldn't be beneficial to his keeping his followers talking on point - to hard to manage the propaganda machine if you allow them to read and think for themselves.

Those that follow Mr Pickle are going to do so in spite of what you say. The few on either side that has sincere interest for the right reasons will have already formed their opinion.
Many lawyers do not give me the warm fuzzies or instill a great deal of confidence as to their integrity.
After six years and watching the attorney's for our denomination spin many things to their advantage until they could no longer do so. Ending with the attorney for the denomination speaking to the media had this to say "It is their time, L and D are in love". 

No, I am not certified in tax law and code. However, I do believe the statements made by Att'y Duffy - I have no reason to disbelieve him and no reason to believe Fran or Mr's Joy or Pickle. Fran's inside contacts have failed her and she seems to have not been able to get the IRS to return her calls. We'll see what the judge says about the subpoena to the IRS and if the IRS will comply should the judge approve. Don't hold your breath, I am sure the judge is getting rather tired of the misuse of process being foisted on the system with Mr's Joy and Pickle's endless antics. Thus feel no concern making the statement that the IRS levied no fines, filed no suit, and cleared both 3ABN and Danny Shelton of the accusations against them.

That is your problem, one among other things. You do not have first hand information,you are basing what you say because of a faith in the attorney. So what?? Others do not give him much credit because he is the counsel for 3ABN. Would they lie,probably not. Would they spin, most assuredly.

Give the first hand account of anyman of what you say.  You would never know what the outcome of any personal audit of DS was. Nor if he was fined would you be made aware.

[Bob Pickle]

I am firmly convinced that DS has an ego the size of Texas and needs to be fed.

You sure have a way with words!