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[Sam]

ADMIN HAT ON

Sam, you need to watch yourself.  I have edited your post to remove your last sentence which was degrading.

ADMIN HAT OFF

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Even if they are cleared of one allegation, it does not necessarily follow that they are not guilty of the numerous others. Each issue must be dealt with individually. Faulty logic on your part Sam.

Hardly.  The financial reports by the Pickle/Joy team (that would include you) included countless allegations...not one as you stated above. Those countless allegations were wrong and I've yet to see an apology by anyone involved in making those allegations.  Including you.




Post edited by Snoopy to remove Sam's degrading remarks.

[reddogs]

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Thats all fine and good Sam, but my granny always told me where there is smoke there is fire. We all wouldn't be discussing this if there was no substance. I feel something happened in the marriage to start all this, and people get emotional and sometimes make bad decisions which can have consequences, and we certainly have seen the results of their actions...   So someone made a mistake somewhere down the line, and I for one have lost a lot of respect for the people involved, for 3ABN, and for the church for letting this go on. All of them need to be restored at least in my eyes and I am sure in a lot of the Adventist brethrens who have come across this...

And don't forget us 'sisterens' either, Red!   

GrammieT

Yes, the 'sisterens' also, we all need to be made whole by all around confession, repentance, forgiveness and a LOT of love for one another before this thing is done. But we need to begin closing it down now and have love and charity in our hearts, as enough pain and suffering has been spread amoung Gods people to wipe out a small nation............


1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

[Bob Pickle]

Hardly.  The financial reports by the Pickle/Joy team (that would include you) included countless allegations...not one as you stated above. Those countless allegations were wrong and I've yet to see an apology by anyone involved in making those allegations.  Including you.

Please name the allegations that were made, and demonstrate which ones were wrong. Apologies will promptly follow.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Here is a link to the lawyers letter...

http://www.3abntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11

Hey, reddog, thanks for that link. I was so impressed I felt it ought to be shared with critical people such as the General Conference, Douglas Batchelor and of course the lawfirm that produced it!!!

Now, how do you explain the fact that it still has not been shared with the world yet??? Isn't this as close as we will EVER get to a REAL letter? ANd written by the one and only Gerry Duffy of "common law copyright" fame!!!
Now that is credibility!!!

By the way, he has not yet sued me for violating his common law copyright...
well, maybe is time, such as just after we get done with our adversarial proceeding with him?

Great artwork, though and it really needs to make the rounds!!! I think I will help it along!!! Anyone want to help?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Let us consider this rationally, and as you would like to have it.

The IRS takes this to the grand jury asking for an indictment of both Danny Shelton and 3ABN. They are asked for their evidence against them and answer *we destroyed it* ?

 "They went through all of these with a fine tooth comb and after nine months of investigation they recently called, and said; "what do you want us to do with the documents?" And they said "Do you want us to destroy them or return them?"   Now when they call you like that, that means the investigation is over."

Here is a link to the lawyers letter...

Now Jack,

How many were destroyed and how many did they keep? Do you have the numbers for us?

And this reminds me of the time I was investigating an arson case and had the town health officer condemn all the food and booze. I personally watched the deputies load cases upon cases of wines and top rated national and international beer, etc, to go to the town dump where it was to be shot-gunned and buried. Even dropped by the dump and noticed all seemed to be going well. Months later we found much of that inventory in a fish and game locker and a State trooper and the Fish and Game officer were suspended and a fire marshall (the pied piper) went to jail.

So, after that, we inventoried both ends. Can you inventory both ends for me??? What were those numbers again?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Grat, would you really throw Elder Batchelor under the bus just because he didn’t buy into your view of how things should turn out?

Maxey, let me make it perfectly clear, I would through Doug Batchelor under the bus THREE times, if I could prove he has done the same things that I know Danny Lee Shelton has done.

Treble damages for hypocrits!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Now, SAM, my dear, what makes you think we were wrong about our financial allegations? ANd please let me know which one I am wrong on as I would need to correct the evidence to conform to your position...if it is possible, after all, so much of the evidence is already in the record!!!

ANy ideas on what we can do to doctor the evidence so it would suport your supposition? Believe me, that is what it will take!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

And now, an official letter from the 3abn attorney that handled the IRS case.

Would this be the attorney whose team didn't even know that there was an investigation just a few months ago?

Would this be the same firm that Ms Hayes claimed was not representing 3ABN in the criminal investigation? MY, OH MY!!! I DO BELIEVE IT IS!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[reddogs]

Here is a link to the lawyers letter...

http://www.3abntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11

Hey, reddog, thanks for that link. I was so impressed I felt it ought to be shared with critical people such as the General Conference, Douglas Batchelor and of course the lawfirm that produced it!!!

Now, how do you explain the fact that it still has not been shared with the world yet??? Isn't this as close as we will EVER get to a REAL letter? ANd written by the one and only Gerry Duffy of "common law copyright" fame!!!
Now that is credibility!!!

By the way, he has not yet sued me for violating his common law copyright...
well, maybe is time, such as just after we get done with our adversarial proceeding with him?

Great artwork, though and it really needs to make the rounds!!! I think I will help it along!!! Anyone want to help?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon, dont shoot the messenger....

I am only a innocent bystander who 'has no dogs in this hunt'...
If they destroy evidence, God see's it, you cannot hide anything from Him...
If they are innocent God knows it and nothing we do will change that...
Our duty is to go by the process we are given, and forgive as we are told in scripture, and those who love and follow Christ will confess and repent of their sin...its that simple
We do not force anyone to follow what Christ asks and which leads to eternal life or they can choose the other path...


Your brother in Christ
Rick

[Sam]

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Now, SAM, my dear, what makes you think we were wrong about our financial allegations? ANd please let me know which one I am wrong on as I would need to correct the evidence to conform to your position...if it is possible, after all, so much of the evidence is already in the record!!!

ANy ideas on what we can do to doctor the evidence so it would suport your supposition? Believe me, that is what it will take!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Pardon me...I thought you were a little smarter than Pickle concerning the IRS investigation.  Figured you wouldn't risk looking so foolish to deny something that has obviously taken place.  Guess I was wrong.  At this point I guess you are willing to risk anything to try and keep the few supporters that remain.  You have mislead them many times (which is why you are down to so few) and you are misleading them again.  You know it and God knows it.

All the arrogance and sly innuendos in the world won't change the facts.  You have nothing.  You cannot prove something that the IRS couldn't prove and by finding nothing, they had more to lose than anyone.  If the investigation wasn't truly over, they would have been all over 3abn for saying it was.

I guess like Pickle, your power of reasoning and common sense have blown right out the window, along with, your witnessess, your financial allegations and your defense case.   The very fact that you called me "dear" shows me something is baaad wrong.

[Sam]

Here is a link to the lawyers letter...

http://www.3abntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11

Hey, reddog, thanks for that link. I was so impressed I felt it ought to be shared with critical people such as the General Conference, Douglas Batchelor and of course the lawfirm that produced it!!!

Now, how do you explain the fact that it still has not been shared with the world yet??? Isn't this as close as we will EVER get to a REAL letter? ANd written by the one and only Gerry Duffy of "common law copyright" fame!!!
Now that is credibility!!!

By the way, he has not yet sued me for violating his common law copyright...
well, maybe is time, such as just after we get done with our adversarial proceeding with him?

Great artwork, though and it really needs to make the rounds!!! I think I will help it along!!! Anyone want to help?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Hasn't been shared with the world?   Wrong as usual.   It has been on the 3abn website for about 5 days now.  It was also spoken to the world on the LIVE by Jim Gilley.  I'm sure it will be mentioned several more times before it's all said and done.  I hear it was also spoken about (to the world) on a today program with Danny & John L.  Don't know if that one has aired yet, but, it will.

You also failed to mention that the letter by Duffy was written in conjunction with the law firm that handled the IRS.  That makes it totally credible and valid.   

I agree with Maxey.  It's a done deal.  You are just grasping at straws.

[Bob Pickle]

Sam,

Not sure why you are insisting that the IRS exoneration story is a proven fact, when Duffy himself didn't say that the IRS had said it was over. Why are you going out on on a limb like that?

Remember, Duffy is the attorney who claimed common law copyright protection for his letter of January 30, 2007, so he isn't always correct. And as far as his representing 3ABN in the IRS investigation, Jerrie Hayes told us in January that she didn't know who was representing 3ABN in that, and they are from the same law firm.

Again, why are you willing to go out on a limb like that? Are you equally willing to go out on a limb regarding the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton? If not, why not?

[Johann]

Oncer upon a time a man was seriously hurt in a brawl , and he lay there bleeding by the wayside. The first person passing by was a deacon in the church. He slowed down enough to see there had been some kind of a fight, and he realized the man left on the battleground was badly hurt, and yet he did not think a deacon should get involved, since he was only a innocent bystander who has no dogs in this hunt.

Shortly after a pastor passed by. Neither did he think it was appropriate he should get involved. "God sees it," he reasoned, "You cannot hide anything from Him. God knows who is innocent, and nothing I do will change that."

Anything similar to a story Christ once told?

Rick, you state that "our duty is to go by the process we are given," and I agree with you. It so happens that I witnessed how a woman, Linda Shelton, was left bleeding by the wayside by false accusations by her husband and his associates who believed in him. Since I know nothing about taxes, finances, nor the affairs of Tommy, I have nothing to say about those things. An exoneration by the IRS cannot change what I have seen and experienced. Neither what Sam, Ian, nor others who support Danny say, can change that. Yes, forgiveness could change a lot, but as long as there is no word in that direction, an exoneration seems at a far distance.

You have not seen and experiences what I have, and I cannot demand of you that you take my word for it. That is your own choice.

Your brother in Christ
Johann Thorvaldsson, first employed by the SDA church in 1951, and most of the time since then.

[Maxey]

A special welcome to our newest member "irspro."  Waiting with anticipation.

LOL, you just can't make this stuff up.

[Snoopy]

LOL...

I saw that, too, Maxey, and I am very interested to hear from this new member.  Maybe we can get some good info from someone who knows the inside scoop!  Welcome, irspro!!

A special welcome to our newest member "irspro."  Waiting with anticipation.

LOL, you just can't make this stuff up.