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[reddogs]

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

[GRAT]

Bob - Sorry, guess I missed those or was having trouble getting my mind around that DB would write such.  And Maxey, it would not be because he didn't buy into my view but the content of the email and the way it was worded.  When you are a public figure you need to be extra careful what and how you say things.

[Maxey]

Bob - Sorry, guess I missed those or was having trouble getting my mind around that DB would write such.  And Maxey, it would not be because he didn't buy into my view but the content of the email and the way it was worded.  When you are a public figure you need to be extra careful what and how you say things.

OK Grat.  I'll buy that and agree with you that how you say things is just as important as what you say.  FWIW, I received the same e-mail that Daryl posted a few hours before he posted it, so I don't question it's validity.

Peace

[Maxey]

Maxey, I think your comments are uncalled for.

The IRS has not released any news that the investigation is over. It's all based on an attorney's interpretation, from what I can tell.

And we are responsible for thinking for ourselves. Claiming a horse to be cash is still a problem, even if the investigation were over.

That’s fine Bob.  I would ask which comments you found objectionable if I cared.

It’s also fine if you choose to deny that the IRS investigation is over.  I agree that we do need to do our own thinking.  I’m just not sure it is our job to convince the world that our thinking is the only way to think.

Somewhere I got the idea that you and/or Mr. Joy had a direct source for news on the IRS investigation.  If that is the case, what are they telling you in this regard?

If the horse, which turns into cash, hasn’t already been reported to IRS, I think it is your obligation to see that it happens.

[Child_of_God]

What has been forgotten is that those who reported and gave documents to the IRS against 3ABN and Danny were also called and asked if they wanted their documents returned or destroyed. It seems they would have asked questions, and what were the answers given to them. So far they have not reported it to the forums.

[Bob Pickle]

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I can't speak for everyone else, but it sure would suit me fine.

[Sister]

Do you really think that 3ABN is the center of the universe??  All the IRS has to do all day is sit around and read web sights about an investigation they did?  Come on, the IRS is not reading this stuff. 

I wish someone could tell me if DB really wrote that email. Has he admitted to writing it?  If he did, he is not the man I thought he was and I have lost a whole lot of respect for him. 

OK, give me some help here.  It seems that there are some pretty compelling statements made by high profile individuals who should know what they are talking about when it comes to the IRS investigation of 3ABN being finished.  I note the absence of Mr. Joy over the last few weeks as a subjective admission that the financial misconduct leg of their defense is gone.

What I find most interesting is the refusal to accept this news and move on.  Were we only going to be happy if 3ABN/Shelton were found out of compliance with the IRS and led shackled to the police cruisers?  Is our hate so overwhelming that we refuse to deal with reality?

Grat, would you really throw Elder Batchelor under the bus just because he didn’t buy into your view of how things should turn out?

The statement I bolded in the above quote brings to mind when Bill Clinton was president of the United States (definitely a high profile individual who should have known what he was talking about). President Clinton was on network television, looked directly into the camera and said, "I did not have sex with that woman."  Being high profile and having intimate access to information does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that the statement issued is factual.

[Bob Pickle]

That’s fine Bob.  I would ask which comments you found objectionable if I cared.

"What I find most interesting is the refusal to accept this news and move on."

Thus far it's an unconfirmed report which is based on someone's interpretation of what a particular question means.

Somewhere I got the idea that you and/or Mr. Joy had a direct source for news on the IRS investigation.

Not us.

[Maxey]

Do you really think that 3ABN is the center of the universe??  All the IRS has to do all day is sit around and read web sights about an investigation they did?  Come on, the IRS is not reading this stuff. 

I wish someone could tell me if DB really wrote that email. Has he admitted to writing it?  If he did, he is not the man I thought he was and I have lost a whole lot of respect for him. 

OK, give me some help here.  It seems that there are some pretty compelling statements made by high profile individuals who should know what they are talking about when it comes to the IRS investigation of 3ABN being finished.  I note the absence of Mr. Joy over the last few weeks as a subjective admission that the financial misconduct leg of their defense is gone.

What I find most interesting is the refusal to accept this news and move on.  Were we only going to be happy if 3ABN/Shelton were found out of compliance with the IRS and led shackled to the police cruisers?  Is our hate so overwhelming that we refuse to deal with reality?

Grat, would you really throw Elder Batchelor under the bus just because he didn’t buy into your view of how things should turn out?

The statement I bolded in the above quote brings to mind when Bill Clinton was president of the United States (definitely a high profile individual who should have known what he was talking about). President Clinton was on network television, looked directly into the camera and said, "I did not have sex with that woman."  Being high profile and having intimate access to information does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that the statement issued is factual.

Excellent research Sister.  The sex reference is unfortunate but true.  I guess it won’t hurt our hits.

Since we’re invoking the Clinton name you probably remember a few months back when Mrs. Clinton told General Petraeus that his progress report on Iraq required "a willing suspension of disbelief."   In my opinion, we are at that point in this matter.  But that’s just me and I certainly don’t feel the need to convince you or anyone else.

[Sam]

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

[Sister]

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Even if they are cleared of one allegation, it does not necessarily follow that they are not guilty of the numerous others. Each issue must be dealt with individually. Faulty logic on your part Sam.

[Snoopy]

Well, maybe you are right Sam.  I didn't realize Jim Gilley was doing so much traveling and promoting.  What about Dan Shelton?  Is he still promoting and traveling as well?  You do seem to be "in the know" about 3ABN business.  Can you give us an update on Mr. Shelton's upcoming schedule?

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

[Habanero]

And now, an official letter from the 3abn attorney that handled the IRS case.

Would this be the attorney whose team didn't even know that there was an investigation just a few months ago?

[reddogs]

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Thats all fine and good Sam, but my granny always told me where there is smoke there is fire. We all wouldn't be discussing this if there was no substance. I feel something happened in the marriage to start all this, and people get emotional and sometimes make bad decisions which can have consequences, and we certainly have seen the results of their actions...   So someone made a mistake somewhere down the line, and I for one have lost a lot of respect for the people involved, for 3ABN, and for the church for letting this go on. All of them need to be restored at least in my eyes and I am sure in a lot of the Adventist brethrens who have come across this...

[GrammieT]

Grat:

I have seen two replies to your question from two folks at AF, and both said that Doug wrote that email.

RedDogs:

It would be wonderful if 3ABN could be exonerated, but God does require confession, repentance, and restitution as conditions for pardon, and we still need to see that. Even if the IRS had totally exonerated 3ABN and Danny, which is impossible in my opinion, there still need to be some apologies over how the Tommy allegations were handled, for divorcing Linda without biblical grounds, for trashing critics over globally televised broadcasts, and such.

I would say that as long as 3ABN and Danny keep the suit going, they are going to be distracted from their mission.

Bob,

If they repented, confessed and dropped all the lawsuits related to the issues, would the brethren accept them back. I think this is the direction they need to go and see if they can be accepted back into the good graces of the members, as this has been a total disaster for everyone involved and Adventism in general...

In other words what would it take to resolve this overall, and would it be accepted by those affected or hurt by it...?

Rick

I'm wondering what "brethern" you are referring to?  They have the support of the GC, ASI, countless other ministries like AF, Kenneth Cox, etc. The supporters are coming back in droves. That was proven at the TC campmeeting weekend where there was a record attendance.  They have the support of the churches as Jim G. is on the road constantly speaking at those churches.  What few doubts that were still hanging around were doused with the news of the IRS clearance. 

People aren't stupid.  It took awhile for the general public to catch on to what was going on and the tactics being used.  Many changed sides just reading Joy and Pickle's own words and watching their actions.

Remember this....the "repentance" you speak of stems from the accusations by the Pickle Joy team.  They were wrong about all of their financial allegations doesn't it make sense they are wrong about everything else?

Thats all fine and good Sam, but my granny always told me where there is smoke there is fire. We all wouldn't be discussing this if there was no substance. I feel something happened in the marriage to start all this, and people get emotional and sometimes make bad decisions which can have consequences, and we certainly have seen the results of their actions...   So someone made a mistake somewhere down the line, and I for one have lost a lot of respect for the people involved, for 3ABN, and for the church for letting this go on. All of them need to be restored at least in my eyes and I am sure in a lot of the Adventist brethrens who have come across this...

And don't forget us 'sisterens' either, Red!   

GrammieT