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[Ozzie]

Petunia - What does ***** stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

No GRAT. You are not the only one who noticed it. I physically 'winced' as I read that, as it sickens me when I hear/see people take the name of the Lord in vain.

If one so blatantly breaks that commandment, what's to stop them from breaking others just as blatantly?

=====

Edited inappropriate abbreviation, as it was also removed from original post.

[Sister]

Petunia - What does ***** stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

No GRAT. You are not the only one who noticed it. I physically 'winced' as I read that, as it sickens me when I hear/see people take the name of the Lord in vain.

If one so blatantly breaks that commandment, what's to stop them from breaking others just as blatantly?

I agree, it sickens me also to hear members on a Christian forum take the Lord's name in vain. So much for the defenders of 3ABN...

=====

Edited quoted post.

[Child_of_God]

Quote from: Bob Pickle on Today at 06:53:26 AM
....
Why do we keep seeing similarities between this saga and those of the Vatican? Why did both Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell and Walt Thompson meet with the alleged perpetrators and/or their relative but not with the alleged victim(s)? Why did Walt Thompson approach this situation like Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell rather than in the way I would think the average Seventh-day Adventist would expect him to?



Ian responded--Because that is what you choose to see and say?


Quote
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Possible way to win 3ABN critics.
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:04:53 -0600
From: Walt Thompson

Dear Bob,

Thank you for you attempt to understand my sensitivity and that of 3abn administratin and board. We believe we have acted responsibly and wisely, appropriate to the circumstances. While one can always be criticized after the fact and without all of the evidence then available for consideration, often those same critics would have made similar judgments had they been there......

Subsequently, after this issue has been brought back to the forefront (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attentionm, and that person was then on the board and voted with the concensus) I contacted the only person from the Chruch of God that I could find that knew about the situation, and who had been present and witness to the events. (Accept for pastor Dryden\'s personal accounts, there are apparently no other records of the allegations) The picture that was painted by that leader of the Church was exactly as portrayed earlier by Danny. Dryden was jealous of Tommy and was out to get him - a jealousy that has continued to the present. I was again informed that the DA knew about the allegations and not finding a basis, refused to act against Tommy......


Quote from: Ian on Today at 07:45:29 AM
Because that is what you choose to see and say?

Pickle responded--No, because it\'s the truth.

Are you ready yet to return to the ranks of conservativism and take a stand for righteousness? Are you ready to say that Walt should have spoken with the alleged victims and not just the alleged perpetrator and his brother?

I wonder what you would think if the police routinely spoke only with the alleged murderer, the alleged thief, the alleged rapist, and never the alleged victims, and took the alleged perpetrator\'s word for it that everything was fine.


Bob Pickle, I know what my opinion is of you and what you stated above by its contents.

1.   Ian was correct in saying your stance is one you choose to see and say and you did it again when you totally ignored what Dr. Thompson said in the quote Ian gave from him. Also he did not make the decision all on his own.
2.   You wanted Dr. Thompson to do as you do. Hear something and rashly move on it by trying to find anyone or anything that might back up the alleged allegations instead of being open to all the information and possibilities within the limits set upon him and prayerfully considering all of it. You seem to think that he should have put aside what the police and prosecutor investigation ascertained and just move on what he had heard to begin with. You seem to think that he should have put aside what the church that was involved ascertained too. And through all of it spread the alleged allegations far and wide stating it to be the truth.  If I were being accused of anything I would rather have Dr. Thompson looking into it in a Christian and ethical way over one such as you that chooses to be a pawn and mouthpiece for the accuser of the brethren.
3.   It has been stated before that you are or were at the time of these alleged allegations a pastor. Then as a pastor it was your responsibility to contact the appropriate legal persons over and rather than 3ABN, if you were really concerned about the alleged victims.  It does not take any courage at all to spread around alleged allegations and let others take up the cause for you. That way if things do not go as you want you can slip out and let the others take the responsibility and consequences for your actions as well as their own.

By the way I agree with what Petunia said in post #225.

 This is exactly why I think it was wisdom for Walt Thompson to make the choices he did, regarding the contact from Dryden.  There is an appropriate manner in which these types of issues should be handled, for the sake of both the alleged victims and the alleged abuser.  To build a case on words or gossip alone is not only fruitless, it is dangerous.  I\'ve seen so much of that happening with some of the issues being discussed here on Adventtalk.  Opinion becomes treated as fact without the benefit of due process.

[ex3abnemployee]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Possible way to win 3ABN critics.
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:04:53 -0600
From: Walt Thompson

-- snip --

I contacted pastor Dryden and heard his side of the story

-- snip --

But here's the point everyone seems to be missing. Glenn Dryden DOESN'T HAVE A "SIDE OF THE STORY"!!! He was not abused, nor were his sons to my knowledge. He wasn't even in West Frankfort when it took place. He's a Johnny-come-lately who for some reason feels "left out" because he isn't involved. Talking to Glenn Dryden is in NO WAY investigating abuse by Tommy Shelton.

Gregory, to answer your question from another post, yes, Illinois has mandatory reporting for clergy. In fact, I was told by someone in law enforcement that it doesn't even matter if you are ordained or not. If you are in a position serving as a minister, ordained or not, paid or volunteer, you are a mandated reporter. Pastor Dryden did not go to the authorities as far as I know. All he did was mail out a bunch of letters, by his own admission. That's not trying to help, that's being a tale bearer.

Walt Thompson never talked to me or any of the other victims as far as I know. He says he talked to Danny. What did he think Danny was going to say? 

All I know is this: It was a lot easier to go through life before Glenn Dryden ran his mouth about this garbage. I know I eventually would have had to deal with it, but I needed to do it in my own time. Now for the past couple of years I've had to relive this all over again. Glenn Dryden is no hero, and not much of a pastor either as far as I'm concerned.

[Bob Pickle]

1.   Ian was correct in saying your stance is one you choose to see and say and you did it again when you totally ignored what Dr. Thompson said in the quote Ian gave from him.

What specifically did I ignore?

You seem to think that he should have put aside what the police and prosecutor investigation ascertained and just move on what he had heard to begin with.

Did the police or prosecutor look into Roger Clem's allegations at all? He had recently come forward. Which allegations had they looked into and when? Are you taking the position that an investigation should never be reopened, or that no one should ever ask for one to be reopened unless they are a policeman or prosecutor?

You seem to think that he should have put aside what the church that was involved ascertained too.

Pardon me, but didn't the church ascertain that there definitely was a problem? If not, why was Tommy's ordination suspended, and why did Ezra issue a signed apology or some such?

And through all of it spread the alleged allegations far and wide stating it to be the truth.

When have I ever done that?

If I were being accused of anything I would rather have Dr. Thompson looking into it in a Christian and ethical way ...

That's my whole point. He to this day has refused to do so.

3.   It has been stated before that you are or were at the time of these alleged allegations a pastor. Then as a pastor it was your responsibility to contact the appropriate legal persons over and rather than 3ABN, if you were really concerned about the alleged victims.

What is your basis for saying this? Walt and Danny had a responsibility to handle this appropriately in order to safeguard 3ABN and the Illinois Conference. They instead chose to cover up or not properly investigate the allegations. How would calling up the cops and telling them what Danny and Walt had failed to do help matters?

By the way I agree with what Petunia said in post #225.

Then I suggest you spend some time seeking the Lord and asking Him if you are really seeing things clearly. Defending those who have refused to properly deal with child molestation allegations, defending those who hire attorneys to write nasty letters to those concerned about child molestation allegations, defending those who refuse to apologize for such reprehensible behavior, and using the username Child_of_God, that sounds a bit contradictory.

[Child_of_God]

I should never have tried to talk to you. I forgot that you think you are the prosecutor, judge and jury.

[Child_of_God]

Why would any of you three want to even consider that it was what Petunia meant? I have never said that in my whole life and I have never heard a SDA Christian say it, so why would one think that is what Petunia meant by those initials in a SDA forum. It could just as easily have meant oh my goodness. That is exactly what I thought it meant. Others may have too if you hadn\'t assumed it meant something so horrible. Why always look for the worst?

Petunia - What does ***** stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

No GRAT. You are not the only one who noticed it. I physically \'winced\' as I read that, as it sickens me when I hear/see people take the name of the Lord in vain.

If one so blatantly breaks that commandment, what\'s to stop them from breaking others just as blatantly?

=====

Edited quoted post.

[Bob Pickle]

I should never have tried to talk to you.

If you want to defend folks who lie, or who jeopardize the reputation or financial security of 3ABN or of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, or who cover up child molestation allegations, then, as Sister White put it, "Silence is eloquence."

[Sister]

Why would any of you three want to even consider that it was what Petunia meant? I have never said that in my whole life and I have never heard a SDA Christian say it, so why would one think that is what Petunia meant by those initials in a SDA forum. It could just as easily have meant oh my goodness. That is exactly what I thought it meant. Others may have too if you hadn\'t assumed it meant something so horrible. Why always look for the worst?

Petunia - What does ***** stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

No GRAT. You are not the only one who noticed it. I physically \'winced\' as I read that, as it sickens me when I hear/see people take the name of the Lord in vain.

If one so blatantly breaks that commandment, what\'s to stop them from breaking others just as blatantly?

Even if it meant "Oh my goodness", that is just veganized swearing. What is the goodness of a Christian? It is God... so, what is the difference? It is wise too think before using certain "expressions", especially in writing.

=====

Edited quoted post.

[Gregory]

Gregory, to answer your question from another post, yes, Illinois has mandatory reporting for clergy. In fact, I was told by someone in law enforcement that it doesn't even matter if you are ordained or not. If you are in a position serving as a minister, ordained or not, paid or volunteer, you are a mandated reporter. Pastor Dryden did not go to the authorities as far as I know. All he did was mail out a bunch of letters, by his own admission. That's not trying to help, that's being a tale bearer.

Walt Thompson never talked to me or any of the other victims as far as I know. He says he talked to Danny. What did he think Danny was going to say? 

All I know is this: It was a lot easier to go through life before Glenn Dryden ran his mouth about this garbage. I know I eventually would have had to deal with it, but I needed to do it in my own time. Now for the past couple of years I've had to relive this all over again. Glenn Dryden is no hero, and not much of a pastor either as far as I'm concerned.

I have no knowledge as to what IL law is on this point.  Thank you for your comment.

Il law is correct.  It should not matter whether the clergy person is ordained, or not, paid, volunteer or whatever.  The law should apply to that person simply because of the office or function performed.  i.e.  It should apply to all who act as such.

I can well immagine that all of the publicity has not been easy for you.  Only the people who haved gone through the experience can know what the experience was like.

[guide4him]

From what I have heard from others higher up in acedamia Goodness=God. So to me also it means the same thing.

BTW I am offended also. I would expect to see that remark from a non-christian message board or chat room but not this one.

[Snoopy]

I noticed it, too.

Petunia - What does ***** stand for?  Is that a breaking of one of the 10 commandments?  (am I the only one that bothers or is it just not important how we use the name of God?)

=====

Edited quoted post.

[Snoopy]

I didn't even bother to try to read this, as it is very difficult to follow.  Please, people - learn how to use the quotes here on AdventTalk.  It really is not that hard!!!

Quote from: Bob Pickle on Today at 06:53:26 AM
....
Why do we keep seeing similarities between this saga and those of the Vatican? Why did both Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell and Walt Thompson meet with the alleged perpetrators and/or their relative but not with the alleged victim(s)? Why did Walt Thompson approach this situation like Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell rather than in the way I would think the average Seventh-day Adventist would expect him to?



Ian responded--Because that is what you choose to see and say?


Quote
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Possible way to win 3ABN critics.
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:04:53 -0600
From: Walt Thompson

Dear Bob,

Thank you for you attempt to understand my sensitivity and that of 3abn administratin and board. We believe we have acted responsibly and wisely, appropriate to the circumstances. While one can always be criticized after the fact and without all of the evidence then available for consideration, often those same critics would have made similar judgments had they been there......

Subsequently, after this issue has been brought back to the forefront (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attentionm, and that person was then on the board and voted with the concensus) I contacted the only person from the Chruch of God that I could find that knew about the situation, and who had been present and witness to the events. (Accept for pastor Dryden\'s personal accounts, there are apparently no other records of the allegations) The picture that was painted by that leader of the Church was exactly as portrayed earlier by Danny. Dryden was jealous of Tommy and was out to get him - a jealousy that has continued to the present. I was again informed that the DA knew about the allegations and not finding a basis, refused to act against Tommy......


Quote from: Ian on Today at 07:45:29 AM
Because that is what you choose to see and say?

Pickle responded--No, because it\'s the truth.

Are you ready yet to return to the ranks of conservativism and take a stand for righteousness? Are you ready to say that Walt should have spoken with the alleged victims and not just the alleged perpetrator and his brother?

I wonder what you would think if the police routinely spoke only with the alleged murderer, the alleged thief, the alleged rapist, and never the alleged victims, and took the alleged perpetrator\'s word for it that everything was fine.


Bob Pickle, I know what my opinion is of you and what you stated above by its contents.

1.   Ian was correct in saying your stance is one you choose to see and say and you did it again when you totally ignored what Dr. Thompson said in the quote Ian gave from him. Also he did not make the decision all on his own.
2.   You wanted Dr. Thompson to do as you do. Hear something and rashly move on it by trying to find anyone or anything that might back up the alleged allegations instead of being open to all the information and possibilities within the limits set upon him and prayerfully considering all of it. You seem to think that he should have put aside what the police and prosecutor investigation ascertained and just move on what he had heard to begin with. You seem to think that he should have put aside what the church that was involved ascertained too. And through all of it spread the alleged allegations far and wide stating it to be the truth.  If I were being accused of anything I would rather have Dr. Thompson looking into it in a Christian and ethical way over one such as you that chooses to be a pawn and mouthpiece for the accuser of the brethren.
3.   It has been stated before that you are or were at the time of these alleged allegations a pastor. Then as a pastor it was your responsibility to contact the appropriate legal persons over and rather than 3ABN, if you were really concerned about the alleged victims.  It does not take any courage at all to spread around alleged allegations and let others take up the cause for you. That way if things do not go as you want you can slip out and let the others take the responsibility and consequences for your actions as well as their own.

By the way I agree with what Petunia said in post #225.

 This is exactly why I think it was wisdom for Walt Thompson to make the choices he did, regarding the contact from Dryden.  There is an appropriate manner in which these types of issues should be handled, for the sake of both the alleged victims and the alleged abuser.  To build a case on words or gossip alone is not only fruitless, it is dangerous.  I\'ve seen so much of that happening with some of the issues being discussed here on Adventtalk.  Opinion becomes treated as fact without the benefit of due process.

[Artiste]

Why would any of you three want to even consider that it was what Petunia meant? I have never said that in my whole life and I have never heard a SDA Christian say it, so why would one think that is what Petunia meant by those initials in a SDA forum. It could just as easily have meant oh my goodness.

OMG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Oh My G*D, commonly abbreviated to OMG, as an Internet slang phrase"

=====

I thought of editing out OMG here, but decided to leave it, as it contained information relative to the inappropriate use of OMG in Petunia's post. - Daryl Fawcett, Administrator.

[anyman]

Did it dawn on you or any one of the other pious collection of bishops here that maybe Petunia is a new convert, someone who left and is considering returning to the faith, or someone working in concert with the Savior to change their lives? Did even ONE of you contact her via PM and broach the issue? I am guessing the answer is NO across the board . . . instead you take your arrogance and attack her publicaly . . . patently unChristian!

From what I have heard from others higher up in acedamia Goodness=God. So to me also it means the same thing.

BTW I am offended also. I would expect to see that remark from a non-christian message board or chat room but not this one.