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[Bob Pickle]

anyman, why don't you demonstrate your familiarity with Christian principles by seeking common ground where there should be some.

Sam accused us of having never talked personally to some of the players in this saga. That accusation is patently false. Despite your assertion, I am not wrong about that, and you know it.

I have never manipulated Walt's honest communication that he never contacted any of the alleged molestation victims of Tommy Shelton. I took his word for it that he was telling the truth on that one, for he certainly had no reason to prevaricate on such a point that would make him look so irresponsible.

I again request an apology from you for your unkind and inappropriate remark that only I would consider Sam's accusation a lie.

[anyman]

Hhhmm . . . this might make a good addition to the Wikipedia page on the Jesuit tactic of "reservatio mentalis" or maybe Sophistry . . . you know this comment is meant to mislead and create a perception that is not true . . . and your constant repetition of it, and others, is certainly your use of your NLP training.

I have never manipulated Walt's honest communication that he never contacted any of the alleged molestation victims of Tommy Shelton. I took his word for it that he was telling the truth on that one, for he certainly had no reason to prevaricate on such a point that would make him look so irresponsible.

[Bob Pickle]

Don't know what you're talking about. Never had NLP training.

Let's get down to basics. We both agree that Dryden invited Walt to contact Tommy's alleged molestation victims, do we not?

We both agree that he should have done so in order to safeguard 3ABN from any potential liability, do we not?

We both agree that he admitted that he never did so, do we not?

We both agree that Walt himself personally told me that he never did, and that he has never retracted his position, do we not?

So what exactly do we disagree about?

I have also spoken with Walt at least twice on the phone, and thus Sam's statement is patently false. He should apologize for making a false statement.

[anyman]

First, let's start with this . . . don't assume I agree with you on anything. Your suggestion, via another misleading post, is that we have talked and we agree . . . just to clarify for the reading public, we haven't and we don't.

Secondly, to clarify for those guests reading here, Dr. Thompson did everything he was required to do. Mr. Robert Pickle's insinuation that he was negligent in his duties is purely Mr. Robert Pickle's attempts at disparagement - not to mention his insinuations and allegations in regards to Danny, Doug Bachelor, Dr. Thompson, Jim Gilley, etc. while occassionally not outright lies are perfect examples of casuistry and amphibology.

So it is obvious I am not going to agree with you as your goal here is not to present the truth and I will not agree with your manufactured reality.

You want an apology from people - set an example and apology for foisting this charade on the world.

Don't know what you're talking about. Never had NLP training.

Let's get down to basics. We both agree that Dryden invited Walt to contact Tommy's alleged molestation victims, do we not?

We both agree that he should have done so in order to safeguard 3ABN from any potential liability, do we not?

We both agree that he admitted that he never did so, do we not?

We both agree that Walt himself personally told me that he never did, and that he has never retracted his position, do we not?

So what exactly do we disagree about?

I have also spoken with Walt at least twice on the phone, and thus Sam's statement is patently false. He should apologize for making a false statement.

[Bob Pickle]

So it should be patently clear to the reading public that on some of the most basic points, Danny Shelton's defenders reveal some serious problems.

1) anyman can't even bring himself to say that he agrees that Dryden's letter invited Walt to contact the alleged victims of Tommy Shelton. Why not?

2) anyman can't even bring himself to say that he agrees that Walt admitted that he never contacted any of the alleged victims.

3) anyman can't even bring himself to say that he agrees that Walt personally told me he never did, and that he has never retracted his position.

4) anyman can't even bring himself to say that he agrees that Walt should have contacted the alleged victims in order to safeguard 3ABN from potential liability.

I would guess that he would also have trouble agreeing that Christian courtesy would dictate that he should have contacted those alleged victims. And that Riva should never have sent that nasty letter to Dryden. And that Riva should apologize to Dryden for his unchristlike conduct.

And all this highlights the weirdness of this whole situation, where a ministry claims to be spreading the 3 angels' message into all the world which includes a call to obey the 10 Commandments, and that ministry's defenders can't even bring themselves to say that the board chairman should have talked with the alleged victims of alleged pedophile Tommy Shelton to get their side of the story.

[Petunia]

Don't know what you're talking about. Never had NLP training.

Let's get down to basics. We both agree that Dryden invited Walt to contact Tommy's alleged molestation victims, do we not?

We both agree that he should have done so in order to safeguard 3ABN from any potential liability, do we not?

We both agree that he admitted that he never did so, do we not?

We both agree that Walt himself personally told me that he never did, and that he has never retracted his position, do we not?

So what exactly do we disagree about?

I have also spoken with Walt at least twice on the phone, and thus Sam's statement is patently false. He should apologize for making a false statement.

As I have read here, some of your statements have raised some questions.

How many of Tommy's alleged victims have filed charges against him?  As Pastor Dryden and you have attempted to build a case as to the guilt of Tommy Shelton, it seems that the most proper procedure would instead be for alleged victims to address this situation in the justice system. 

I have read the information from Dryden and I had to wonder if this pastor reported the allegations to the authorities.  Isn't it the law that pastors, counselors, teachers, etc, must report such things? 

I understand that it is often very difficult for victims to report abuse, but if they were bold enough to report it to a pastor and other members of the congregation, why not take the next logical step and take it to the proper authorities?  Once guilt is established, then one could reasonably be critical of a board chairman for not responding to such a letter.  Whose job is it to investigate such things?

[ex3abnemployee]

Don't know what you're talking about. Never had NLP training.

Let's get down to basics. We both agree that Dryden invited Walt to contact Tommy's alleged molestation victims, do we not?

We both agree that he should have done so in order to safeguard 3ABN from any potential liability, do we not?

We both agree that he admitted that he never did so, do we not?

We both agree that Walt himself personally told me that he never did, and that he has never retracted his position, do we not?

So what exactly do we disagree about?

I have also spoken with Walt at least twice on the phone, and thus Sam's statement is patently false. He should apologize for making a false statement.

As I have read here, some of your statements have raised some questions.

How many of Tommy's alleged victims have filed charges against him?  As Pastor Dryden and you have attempted to build a case as to the guilt of Tommy Shelton, it seems that the most proper procedure would instead be for alleged victims to address this situation in the justice system. 

I have read the information from Dryden and I had to wonder if this pastor reported the allegations to the authorities.  Isn't it the law that pastors, counselors, teachers, etc, must report such things? 

I understand that it is often very difficult for victims to report abuse, but if they were bold enough to report it to a pastor and other members of the congregation, why not take the next logical step and take it to the proper authorities?  Once guilt is established, then one could reasonably be critical of a board chairman for not responding to such a letter.  Whose job is it to investigate such things?

One of Tommy's victims DID press charges and somehow Tommy was able to smooth talk his way out of being prosecuted.

For most of us, the statute of limitations has run out. There is a bill pending in the Illinois Senate that would open a window for criminal charges to be filed. I contacted our state senator, Gary Forby, and he didn't even have the courtesy to answer my email. He is a worthless coward. Believe me, if the statute ever opens up, I will be the first to press charges.

I reported what happened to me because I have since been told that nearly the entire Shelton family, including Tommy's wife Carol, knew the abuse was going on and did nothing to stop it. In fact, after our statements were made, both Tommy and Carol sent out blistering letters complaining about how bad they have been treated. No denying the charges, but no apologies or remorse, either.

As far as Glenn Dryden goes, he delights in sticking his nose into things that cause controversy. He isn't interested in a resolution, he just wants to mail out letters and spread gossip. He has done it for years and I don't anticipate any change in that.

[Snoopy]

Good for you, Duane!!  You are truly a courageous individual.  Please don't interpret this post as trying to intrude in to your business or tell you what to do, but might I respectfully suggest that you not give up your case with one cowardly senator.  Write to someone else.  Maybe the other senator.  Maybe a Representative.  Maybe a media troubleshooter.  Do all in your power to get your story out on the table.  Remember, the squeaky wheel theory!!  What about Dr. Phil?  Or Oprah?  I'm serious!!  It will take someone with your backbone to push this ugly story into the public eye and FORCE someone, somewhere to take action.  This whole mess is absolutely disgusting.

One of Tommy's victims DID press charges and somehow Tommy was able to smooth talk his way out of being prosecuted.

For most of us, the statute of limitations has run out. There is a bill pending in the Illinois Senate that would open a window for criminal charges to be filed. I contacted our state senator, Gary Forby, and he didn't even have the courtesy to answer my email. He is a worthless coward. Believe me, if the statute ever opens up, I will be the first to press charges.

I reported what happened to me because I have since been told that nearly the entire Shelton family, including Tommy's wife Carol, knew the abuse was going on and did nothing to stop it. In fact, after our statements were made, both Tommy and Carol sent out blistering letters complaining about how bad they have been treated. No denying the charges, but no apologies or remorse, either.

As far as Glenn Dryden goes, he delights in sticking his nose into things that cause controversy. He isn't interested in a resolution, he just wants to mail out letters and spread gossip. He has done it for years and I don't anticipate any change in that.

[Chrissie]

Good for you, Duane!!  You are truly a courageous individual.  Please don't interpret this post as trying to intrude in to your business or tell you what to do, but might I respectfully suggest that you not give up your case with one cowardly senator.  Write to someone else.  Maybe the other senator.  Maybe a Representative.  Maybe a media troubleshooter.  Do all in your power to get your story out on the table.  Remember, the squeaky wheel theory!!  What about Dr. Phil?  Or Oprah?  I'm serious!!  It will take someone with your backbone to push this ugly story into the public eye and FORCE someone, somewhere to take action.  This whole mess is absolutely disgusting.

One of Tommy's victims DID press charges and somehow Tommy was able to smooth talk his way out of being prosecuted.

For most of us, the statute of limitations has run out. There is a bill pending in the Illinois Senate that would open a window for criminal charges to be filed. I contacted our state senator, Gary Forby, and he didn't even have the courtesy to answer my email. He is a worthless coward. Believe me, if the statute ever opens up, I will be the first to press charges.

I reported what happened to me because I have since been told that nearly the entire Shelton family, including Tommy's wife Carol, knew the abuse was going on and did nothing to stop it. In fact, after our statements were made, both Tommy and Carol sent out blistering letters complaining about how bad they have been treated. No denying the charges, but no apologies or remorse, either.

As far as Glenn Dryden goes, he delights in sticking his nose into things that cause controversy. He isn't interested in a resolution, he just wants to mail out letters and spread gossip. He has done it for years and I don't anticipate any change in that.

Duane, I know that this is a decision that only you can make, but I certainly endorse everything that Snoopy has said here; particularly about the 'squeaky wheel'.

There has to be people out there who care enough to investigate and support you. Investigative journalism is a specialty area as I understand it, but there are people who are interested in helping get to the nuts and bolts of these cases. Dr Phil sounds like a good person who would be particularly interested in this too.

'LateLine' blew apart allegations of sexual abuse just a few days before the Pope arrived in Australia. Many people didn't like it, but those 'victims/survivors' got their message across. Of course the Catholic Church came up with an idea about 'how they would handle it in house', but it got people that have the ability to investigate, on the job.

I was furious when I heard and saw Cardinal Pell say that he hoped it would all be over and done with before 'World Youth Day' (a week after this was first aired), but he didn't do himself or the Catholic Church any favours by such statements. What it did do, was raise the ire of many people, who demanded justice. It also brought forward 'legal eagles' who provided some useful advice to victims about where to go to get help - and that was not to the Church, but to the appropriate legal authorities.

Take care Duane. I admire your courage and perseverance.

[Bob Pickle]

Once guilt is established, then one could reasonably be critical of a board chairman for not responding to such a letter.

Are you telling me that if you were on a jury and listened to heartbroken mothers and their children tell horrendous stories, and heard the board chairman say that he never bothered to talk to the alleged victims even when invited to, and that it enough evidence was brought out to demonstrate that the alleged perpetrator was indeed a perpetrator, that you would not reward one penny to the alleged victims on grounds of extreme negligence?

Where is your head at? How can you even say such a thing?

Have you not read about the huge judgments against the Catholic Church even in cases where no charges were filed?

[Bob Pickle]

I was furious when I heard and saw Cardinal Pell say that he hoped it would all be over and done with before 'World Youth Day' (a week after this was first aired), but he didn't do himself or the Catholic Church any favours by such statements.

Was it Pell or another Catholic official who had taken the position that a minor was consenting, but after the publication of a transcript of a phone call was maybe going to take a different position since the priest in that phone call had admitted that it wasn't consensual?

Yes, it was Pell: http://www.missionandjustice.org/pell-stands-by-consensual-decision/

As if consensual makes any difference!

The caption under the picture at http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/09/2299355.htm?section=australia says that Pell met with the priest but not with the alleged victim. Sound familiar?

Why do we keep seeing similarities between this saga and those of the Vatican? Why did both Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell and Walt Thompson meet with the alleged perpetrators and/or their relative but not with the alleged victim(s)? Why did Walt Thompson approach this situation like Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell rather than in the way I would think the average Seventh-day Adventist would expect him to?

[Cindy]

....
Why do we keep seeing similarities between this saga and those of the Vatican? Why did both Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell and Walt Thompson meet with the alleged perpetrators and/or their relative but not with the alleged victim(s)? Why did Walt Thompson approach this situation like Roman Catholic Cardinal Pell rather than in the way I would think the average Seventh-day Adventist would expect him to?

Because that is what you choose to see and say?

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Possible way to win 3ABN critics.
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:04:53 -0600
From: Walt Thompson

Dear Bob,

Thank you for you attempt to understand my sensitivity and that of 3abn administratin and board. We believe we have acted responsibly and wisely, appropriate to the circumstances. While one can always be criticized after the fact and without all of the evidence then available for consideration, often those same critics would have made similar judgments had they been there......

Subsequently, after this issue has been brought back to the forefront (I think there is only one person who could have known about this and brought it to world wide attentionm, and that person was then on the board and voted with the concensus) I contacted the only person from the Chruch of God that I could find that knew about the situation, and who had been present and witness to the events. (Accept for pastor Dryden's personal accounts, there are apparently no other records of the allegations) The picture that was painted by that leader of the Church was exactly as portrayed earlier by Danny. Dryden was jealous of Tommy and was out to get him - a jealousy that has continued to the present. I was again informed that the DA knew about the allegations and not finding a basis, refused to act against Tommy......

[bonnie]

Didn't TS write a letter that was pretty damning against him and left little doubt that he was guilty

[Bob Pickle]

Didn't TS write a letter that was pretty damning against him and left little doubt that he was guilty

He's written more than one.

[Bob Pickle]

Because that is what you choose to see and say?

No, because it's the truth.

Are you ready yet to return to the ranks of conservativism and take a stand for righteousness? Are you ready to say that Walt should have spoken with the alleged victims and not just the alleged perpetrator and his brother?

I wonder what you would think if the police routinely spoke only with the alleged murderer, the alleged thief, the alleged rapist, and never the alleged victims, and took the alleged perpetrator's word for it that everything was fine.