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[Cindy]

Ian, you are so out of the loop. The subpoena was untimely served. Her attorney in fact made it clear to Hayes that it was untimely and they need to re-serve or work out an alternate date that was more convenient for his schedule.

Untimely as in she was gone after signing for it? and don't you mean "her schedule"? Did she even contact the 3ABN attorneys or say anything? Was Heal even representing her in regards to the subpoena?

Tell us please, if you are "in the loop"

Since distance and time is an issue, another Illinois based attorney has been approached and may be the counsel of record in both cases before the deposition. And by the way, I believe Heal filed a motion to quash, did he not?...

ummmm... NO.

and what do you mean "both cases before the deposition"?

I heard that the IRS notified you that the investigation was over and 3abn was not faulted in any way?  Is this true? Have they had contact with you? If so, why haven't you made it public?  The more you let "your people" question the findings, claim there isn't a letter and insinuate it is just propaganda, the more ridiculous you will all look when it is posted officially.  If you have inside information why let them stick their necks out, only to be chopped off?

and Joy? what sam just posted? I echo it.   

[Cindy]

I heard that the IRS notified you that the investigation was over and 3abn was not faulted in any way?  Is this true? Have they had contact with you? If so, why haven't you made it public?  The more you let "your people" question the findings, claim there isn't a letter and insinuate it is just propaganda, the more ridiculous you will all look when it is posted officially.  If you have inside information why let them stick their necks out, only to be chopped off?

It would appear that Mr. Joy doesn't like to admit when he is wrong. It has been speculated that he was one of those who might be in line for a cut of ANY monies recovered by the IRS, so of course it makes sense that they would contact him and make him aware of the results - Fran, too.

As far as letting those who have blindly supported him stick their necks out, he let's Mr. Pickle do all the leg work and filings in the suit with 3ABN, that should be enough to indicate that he attempts to insulate himself by doing as little as possible, letting others do his bidding. In other words, that is the way the Joy fiefdom is run.

That seems to go hand in hand with the anyone is expendable for the cause because there are always casualties if war approach.

I don't buy that kind of thing.  As far as I am concerned outside of the game of chess, only The enemy and those he deceives have "pawns" or "patsies"

Yes, that IS my personal opinion, view and conviction and so I stand here with it.

[bonnie]

Sam,
This is one reason I do not take your strident defense of 3ABN as gospel.

It would appear that Mr. Joy doesn't like to admit when he is wrong. It has been speculated that he was one of those who might be in line for a cut of ANY monies recovered by the IRS, so of course it makes sense that they would contact him and make him aware of the results - Fran, too.

You claim speculation in what you are saying. Tells me again, why are you  willing to put things out there that you fault find others for. SPECULATION, not proof. Tell me again how you know what you said is true? Another obvious explaation of who Sam really is.

What makes sense to you is not necessarily what has taken place. Unless it were to go to trial, you have no idea if what you say is true or not. At least if the rules remain the same as they were. The information as to who might have reported with what they considered illegalities,never is relased until and if a trial. Reason is quite simple if you think about it.

As far as letting those who have blindly supported him stick their necks out, he let's Mr. Pickle do all the leg work and filings in the suit with 3ABN, that should be enough to indicate that he attempts to insulate himself by doing as little as possible, letting others do his bidding. In other words, that is the way the Joy fiefdom is run.

Personally I have never seen two sides that are so blind.

[Cindy]

Sam,
This is one reason I do not take your strident defense of 3ABN as gospel.

It would appear that Mr. Joy doesn't like to admit when he is wrong. It has been speculated that he was one of those who might be in line for a cut of ANY monies recovered by the IRS, so of course it makes sense that they would contact him and make him aware of the results - Fran, too.

You claim speculation in what you are saying. Tells me again, why are you  willing to put things out there that you fault find others for. SPECULATION, not proof. Tell me again how you know what you said is true? Another obvious explaation of who Sam really is.

What makes sense to you is not necessarily what has taken place. Unless it were to go to trial, you have no idea if what you say is true or not. At least if the rules remain the same as they were. The information as to who might have reported with what they considered illegalities,never is relased until and if a trial. Reason is quite simple if you think about it.

As far as letting those who have blindly supported him stick their necks out, he let's Mr. Pickle do all the leg work and filings in the suit with 3ABN, that should be enough to indicate that he attempts to insulate himself by doing as little as possible, letting others do his bidding. In other words, that is the way the Joy fiefdom is run.

Personally I have never seen two sides that are so blind.

And yet you consistently keep taking one side only when it comes to your own views, opinions, judgments and posts, and provide no reason or evidence to support what you say except your own thinking but present it all as forgone conclusions and facts as if nothing can be argued or debated.

Blind?


Open your own eyes and WAKE UP!

[bonnie]

And yet you consistently keep taking one side only when it comes to your own views, opinions, judgments and posts, and provide no reason or evidence to support what you say except your own thinking but present it all as forgone conclusions and facts as if nothing can be argued or debated.

Blind?


Open your own eyes and WAKE UP!

You rarely have seen me take a side. You need also to wake up.
DS is the one that represents SDA's to the world. LS no longer is. Does not whitewash or eliminate anything she may have responsibility for. But that does not grab the attention and bring disfavor or scorn on the SDA church. Does not carry the same responsibility.
It is a forgone conclusion for me. Long before I read any post of yours, before I was aware of any IRS investigation.
You watch behaviours long enough and the true character eventually shows thru.
DS conduct in the very beginning told me who he was.
Your actions betray who you really are. You can deny, you can pretend, but in the end it shows.
Had DS treated LS fairly in the beginning,I doubt you would be listening any longer to this soap opera.
From what I have seen and read, she put her heart and soul into 3ABN as well. The public trashing and the gag order leaves much to be desired from the man who represents SDA's around the world
 

[Cindy]

You rarely have seen me take a side. You need also to wake up.
DS is the one that represents SDA's to the world. LS no longer is. Does not whitewash or eliminate anything she may have responsibility for. But that does not grab the attention and bring disfavor or scorn on the SDA church. Does not carry the same responsibility.
It is a forgone conclusion for me. Long before I read any post of yours, before I was aware of any IRS investigation.
You watch behaviours long enough and the true character eventually shows thru.
DS conduct in the very beginning told me who he was.
Your actions betray who you really are. You can deny, you can pretend, but in the end it shows.
Had DS treated LS fairly in the beginning,I doubt you would be listening any longer to this soap opera.
From what I have seen and read, she put her heart and soul into 3ABN as well. The public trashing and the gag order leaves much to be desired from the man who represents SDA's around the world
 

Yes it is a forgone conclusion for you, and that has always been the side you have taken, that is all I have ever seen from you. Don't tell me I haven't seen it, you are doing it even now, wipe away one side as non important or inconsequential or offer excuses and condemn the other. Have you ever once traced all of this talk back and found when it started and with whom it originated? No. for if you had you would already know the FACTS and know that when Danny went on the Live and when Dr Thompson wrote his letter it was a response and reaction to all the publicity and questions and criticisms caused by the side with whom this all originated. Have you ever once researched or tried to find out the facts? NO, for if you had you wouldn't keep posting such nonsense and false testimony.

You say show me, yet refuse to see all that has been shown and keep offering excuses and reasons  such as in this IRS issue, you don't even wait to see the facts you just keep going. why? because you don't want to see or here anything which might cause you to admit fault or error or change your thinking. Yes, That's my opinion.

So I can only repeat what I said before:

And yet you consistently keep taking one side only when it comes to your own views, opinions, judgments and posts, and provide no reason or evidence to support what you say except your own thinking but present it all as forgone conclusions and facts as if nothing can be argued or debated.

Blind?


Open your own eyes and WAKE UP!

I'm done here I have no intention of having this argument be moved to your hidden forum and continuing it there, where all that you browbeat and oppose and disagree with  go, to allow you to continue to insist on your views of them or their opinions being accepted while the posse allows it, and condemns them. Have the last word Bonnie, you are soooo very good at that without ever needing to cool off..



I am not going to convince you, nor you me.. right?

so moving on...

[bonnie]

I'm done here I have no intention of having this argument be moved to your hidden forum and continuing it there, where all that you browbeat and oppose and disagree with  go, to allow you to continue to insist on your views of them or their opinions being accepted while the posse allows it, and condemns them. Have the last word Bonnie, you are soooo very good at that without ever needing to cool off..

Hidden Forum?? If I have such it is news to me. I have no hidden forum, I have no ability to move this discussion or to browbeat anyone.

[bonnie]

Yes it is a forgone conclusion for you, and that has always been the side you have taken, that is all I have ever seen from you. Don't tell me I haven't seen it, you are doing it even now, wipe away one side as non important or inconsequential or offer excuses and condemn the other. Have you ever once traced all of this talk back and found when it started and with whom it originated? No. for if you had you would already know the FACTS and know that when Danny went on the Live and when Dr Thompson wrote his letter it was a response and reaction to all the publicity and questions and criticisms caused by the side with whom this all originated. Have you ever once researched or tried to find out the facts? NO, for if you had you wouldn't keep posting such nonsense and false testimony.

No side was wiped away. I am not a strong supporter of LS, I never have been. She is not the one in the public eye as DS and does not carry the same responsibility. She of course does between her and God, but DS represents SDA's to the world. Far greater impact and damage

The area's that concern me were pretty clear cut.

You say show me, yet refuse to see all that has been shown and keep offering excuses and reasons  such as in this IRS issue, you don't even wait to see the facts you just keep going. why? because you don't want to see or here anything which might cause you to admit fault or error or change your thinking. Yes, That's my opinion.

I don't recall anything being shown in the area's that would concern me in attempting to defend DS. I see speculation, DS said but little else. Same some on the other side is showing you. I couldn't care less about the fact of the IRS and the resolution. Most will never know what took place and how it was resolved. Nor will you confirm or deny the bogus appraisel DS was after. That is flat out illegal if carried thru. You can spin that from now until the second coming and that will not change. You do not choose one area to be dishonest in or ask for the aid of others to help you in that dishonesty,that is who you are.

DS public visibility and conduct should be a concern for all that are SDA.

And yet you consistently keep taking one side only when it comes to your own views, opinions, judgments and posts, and provide no reason or evidence to support what you say except your own thinking but present it all as forgone conclusions and facts as if nothing can be argued or debated.

You seem to have failed to note where I said it came from DS himself. I never offered to provide proof, never said proof was in my hands. I do not accept DS recommendation on how special DS is. Nor do I accept LS recommendation on how special she is,or clueless . But yes, I do form opinons based on people's behavior and that is exactly what I said




I would really like to know where this private forum is that I have. Does it have a name?

[Johann]

Not Working Johann! How about just answering the questions honestly.  Remember avoiding them IS answering them.

Did Johann drive back home that night?
Was that Johann's only visit the week Linda was there?
Did Nathan stay somewhere else?

The wording of questions tells even more about the inquirer.

[Artiste]

Not Working Johann! How about just answering the questions honestly.  Remember avoiding them IS answering them.

Did Johann drive back home that night?
Was that Johann's only visit the week Linda was there?
Did Nathan stay somewhere else?

The wording of questions tells even more about the inquirer.

Agreed, Johann.

[Mary Sue Smith]

The wording of questions tells even more about the inquirer.

Good try.  Here are the questions for a third time Johann,

1.  Did Johann drive back home that night?
2.  Was that Johann's only visit the week Linda was there?
3.  Did Nathan stay somewhere else?

It would be nice if these questions were answered rather than avoided.

[Ozzie]

The wording of questions tells even more about the inquirer.

Good try.  Here are the questions for a third time Johann,

1.  Did Johann drive back home that night?
2.  Was that Johann's only visit the week Linda was there?
3.  Did Nathan stay somewhere else?

It would be nice if these questions were answered rather than avoided.

Please tell me Junebug, why you think that Johann should bow to your demands? I'm afraid that I wouldn't.

[Child_of_God]

What about simple questions, asked nicely, makes them demands?

[Johann]

What about simple questions, asked nicely, makes them demands?

It would be no problem answering simple questions, asked nicely, if there were only honest people reading. But I know from experience that there are people here who are looking for answers to be twisted and turned, because they don't seem to be interested in discovering the truth. So often I have found my clear answers twisted in a different connection and turned into a distortion of truth.

[Mary Sue Smith]

Johann, I have never "twisted and turned" or "distorted" anything you have said.

I asked three simple questions politely. For you not to answer them or to evade answering them tells me a few things.  Because you are not going to answer them, is in essence answering them very plainly.  I would have thought more of a SDA Pastor than this.