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[Ozzie]

I know I am not the only one that received this. It is not a confidential email as far as I can tell. It is one that confirms my ever growing cynical viewpoint in the integrity of those that represent the denomination in some way.
Hi bonnie,

Turns out the Rumourmongers did NOT have it right.

http://adventistforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/175187

Well, UNTIL I see a letter from the IRS, stating that 3abn is as clean as a whistle, I'll remain a 'doubting Thomas'.

I noticed Stan patting himself on the back, praising himself that he hadn't engaged in any rumormongering! Such self  Adulation doesn't really impress me.

I'm still waiting to see THE letter of exoneration.

[bonnie]

Well, UNTIL I see a letter from the IRS, stating that 3abn is as clean as a whistle, I'll remain a 'doubting Thomas'.

I noticed Stan patting himself on the back, praising himself that he hadn't engaged in any rumormongering! Such self  Adulation doesn't really impress me.

I'm still waiting to see THE letter of exoneration.[/b]

Many seem to take the "high road". Gossip and rumourmongering shall not pass these lips, but excuse me while I keep abreast of all the rumourmongering. That is just so I can educate myself to the sins of "those others".

Thank you God I am not like those others.  When I blame and name names without facts, except for verification by my reliable source,mine is righteous anger at those that gossip without the facts I possess.

[Ozzie]

Well, UNTIL I see a letter from the IRS, stating that 3abn is as clean as a whistle, I'll remain a 'doubting Thomas'.

I noticed Stan patting himself on the back, praising himself that he hadn't engaged in any rumormongering! Such self Adulation doesn't really impress me.

I'm still waiting to see THE letter of exoneration.[/b]

Many seem to take the "high road". Gossip and rumourmongering shall not pass these lips, but excuse me while I keep abreast of all the rumourmongering. That is just so I can educate myself to the sins of "those others".

Thank you God I am not like those others.  When I blame and name names without facts, except for verification by my reliable source,mine is righteous anger at those that gossip without the facts I possess.

That summary is EXACTLY as I would have described it Bonnie, had I had the words to express myself.  I wonder where the whips are for the flagellation?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

For someone who claims to have such a grasp on the law and insight into how governmental agencies operate it is strange that you just can't grasp (or maybe you just like the bliss of ignoring it) the idea that the IRS found nothing wrong with the financial dealings and supporting documents they obtained from 3ABN and Danny Shelton.

Now, you can continue to hide behind the thin veil of "knowing it all" but it is growing more thread bare as the days pass . . . wonder how you will respond when the other shoe drops and you are left with nothing to support you and the people you have used to get to this point no longer stand at your side . . .

So, when are you reposting your revised 990's to bring them into compliance??? And you are telling me the feds are telling the State they were all wet?

SAM, go back and check those sources!!! Need Carol Maces' number? Probably better luck getting a response from the US Attorney and can't wait to see those letters!!!

If I need to go and Kiss the popes ring and pay pennance on the stairs I need to know as soon as possible. I'll even let you take pictures!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Anyman, I can read and have enough accounting experience to know that there is a failure to properly disclose, there are clearly issues relating to the real property transactions, there are clearly issues relating to the relationship between 3ABN, DLS, PPA and Remnant publications.

Now the blood soaked and shrunken glove may not fit, but I also know that Simpson was guilty of murder. It took a civil trial to prove it.

SO stay tuned and produce a copy of this "exoneration" letter for us all to see!!!

I fear it is as elusive as the evidence against Linda. Maybe it will just get "lost"!!!

SO, ANYMAN, produce the "exoneration" letter. Simple thing to do if it exists!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

A word on the self-appointed exonerator known as STAN JENSON: The only reliable information he has given the world is that his source is reliable, that he has finally come out of the closet as a true blue DANNYITE, a specific prejudice I have accused him of in the past, and has joined his Fish in the fishbowl....turn the spotlight on the fishbowl and you will understand the level of Stan's OPINION!!!

Stan is like many adventist administrators, he is looking and searching diligently for more butter for his bread, but can't find the butter when it is right under his nose. The obvious is just too obvious for Stan. Besides, ignorance is Bliss!!!

But, STAN, still waiting for the evidence that gave a basis for the divorce...and it is still missing...
Now we wait patiently for the IRS EXONERATION letter. Dare I say it???Here we go again???

Oh, that's right, ANYMAN has made it clear that in their arrogance they WILL TRY to introduce the evidence when it suits them. Well, your suit time is running out, Stan and ANYMAN. After that. Linda is exonerated and Brenda will find herself walking a short plank with an evolving story that is, shall we say,
factually challenged. When one tells a story, one should tell the same story twice!!!

But watch out, there is another shoe coming down any minute. Wonder if it has as many holes in it as the first one had???

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Habanero]

Stan Jensen has raised an interesting point over on the Yahoo thing.

"One has to wonder why 'they' are always attacking the accounting staff at 3ABN.

Do they think Danny does all of the entries? That the 3ABN external auditor is
not competent?

It would appear that some of the major complainers have never run a business,
successful or
not, yet they seem to be al knowing on running an international multimillion
dollar organization.

Am I missing something? Does Danny do all the accounting etc?"

[Habanero]

I wonder if Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay did all the accounting entries for ENRON. Or John Rigas at Adelphia. I understand that Arthur Anderson was one of the most credible and prominent accounting/auditing firms in the US.

(Oops, big spelling error.)

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I wonder if Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay did all the accounting entries for ENRON. Or John Rigas at Adelphia. I understand that Arthur Anderson was one of the most credible and prominent accounting/auding firms in the US.

EMPHASIS ON THE "WAS"!!! And where can you find them all today???

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Jack Indabocks]

For someone who claims to have such a grasp on the law and insight into how governmental agencies operate it is strange that you just can\'t grasp (or maybe you just like the bliss of ignoring it) the idea that the IRS found nothing wrong with the financial dealings and supporting documents they obtained from 3ABN and Danny Shelton.

Now, you can continue to hide behind the thin veil of \"knowing it all\" but it is growing more thread bare as the days pass . . . wonder how you will respond when the other shoe drops and you are left with nothing to support you and the people you have used to get to this point no longer stand at your side . . .

So, when are you reposting your revised 990\'s to bring them into compliance??? And you are telling me the feds are telling the State they were all wet?

SAM, go back and check those sources!!! Need Carol Maces\' number? Probably better luck getting a response from the US Attorney and can\'t wait to see those letters!!!

If I need to go and Kiss the popes ring and pay pennance on the stairs I need to know as soon as possible. I\'ll even let you take pictures!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Anyman, I can read and have enough accounting experience to know that there is a failure to properly disclose, there are clearly issues relating to the real property transactions, there are clearly issues relating to the relationship between 3ABN, DLS, PPA and Remnant publications.

Now the blood soaked and shrunken glove may not fit, but I also know that Simpson was guilty of murder. It took a civil trial to prove it.

SO stay tuned and produce a copy of this \"exoneration\" letter for us all to see!!!

I fear it is as elusive as the evidence against Linda. Maybe it will just get \"lost\"!!!

SO, ANYMAN, produce the \"exoneration\" letter. Simple thing to do if it exists!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Hey Gailon,

How sure are you?

What do you think the chances are that 3ABN will produce the Exoneration letter from the IRS?

50/50?   20/80 ?

[Habanero]

Hey Gailon,

How sure are you?

What do you think the chances are that 3ABN will produce the Exoneration letter from the IRS?

50/50?   20/80 ?

I could be wrong on this, but didn't Danny say that there was no IRS investigation happening? I know his lawyer did in court just a few months ago. Wouldn't a statement that the investigation cleared him imply that there had been an investigation that he knew about?

[Eduard]

A word on the self-appointed exonerator known as STAN JENSON: The only reliable information he has given the world is that his source is reliable, that he has finally come out of the closet as a true blue DANNYITE, a specific prejudice I have accused him of in the past, and has joined his Fish in the fishbowl....turn the spotlight on the fishbowl and you will understand the level of Stan's OPINION!!!

Stan is like many adventist administrators, he is looking and searching diligently for more butter for his bread, but can't find the butter when it is right under his nose. The obvious is just too obvious for Stan. Besides, ignorance is Bliss!!!

But, STAN, still waiting for the evidence that gave a basis for the divorce...and it is still missing...
Now we wait patiently for the IRS EXONERATION letter. Dare I say it???Here we go again???

Oh, that's right, ANYMAN has made it clear that in their arrogance they WILL TRY to introduce the evidence when it suits them. Well, your suit time is running out, Stan and ANYMAN. After that. Linda is exonerated and Brenda will find herself walking a short plank with an evolving story that is, shall we say,
factually challenged. When one tells a story, one should tell the same story twice!!!

But watch out, there is another shoe coming down any minute. Wonder if it has as many holes in it as the first one had???

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon,

As one who has known Stan Jensen for many years, I believe that his only "expertise" is in FAST FOOD.

Eduard

[bonnie]

Gailon,

As one who has known Stan Jensen for many years, I believe that his only "expertise" is in FAST FOOD.

Eduard

I think it obvious I am not a friend or fan of Stan Jensen,but some of the comments are way over the top, concerning both he and Gregory Matthews, who I do consider a TRUSTED friend.

They are not necessary/cute .The "expertise in fast food" reflects more on the poster than anyone else.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even in this mess.  Stan has made it clear that he would not allow "anyone" to engage in speculation or negative comments concerning DS and 3ABN, while at the same time making it clear that his own personal speculation and negative comments about others was not only proper but funny to boot. On several occasions he has deliberately brought into a discussion "those others" that engage in speculation and rumormongering. Pretending humor several attempts were made to bring in gossip, with his approval, as long as it was concerning the "others".
He made a very definitive comment concerning his part in destroying LS chance of a ministry. For this reliable ,factual information he seems to rely on DS. As well as "he hears" LS feels the same. Lacking the maturity to either stand by his unnecessary public statements, he waltzes the mulberry bush. Perhaps he  overstated a bit.
Did Gregory do as charged or did he not? A Christian that professes so much deliberately made an ambiguous statement so that he neither had to retract or apologize. Fueling the very gossip he pretends to abhore. Maybe LS should get a grip and follow where everyone claims to know God is leading ,as in another ministry. I have often wondered if God is amused or dumbfounded by all the people that "KNOW" his will for another.
If God is leading, I for one believe LS better be willing to follow. Not tell God where she wants him to take her.

However that has nothing to do with the malicious cracks being made. Nothing to do with accusations that you cannot back up and are pulling out of the air for the entertainment of those that you feel support you. Again, that seems to be a part of the script for both sides in this whole sorry mess
The two sides seem to be getting so close together in conduct that they are blurring into one.

[Eduard]

Gailon,

As one who has known Stan Jensen for many years, I believe that his only "expertise" is in FAST FOOD.

Eduard

I think it obvious I am not a friend or fan of Stan Jensen,but some of the comments are way over the top, concerning both he and Gregory Matthews, who I do consider a TRUSTED friend.

They are not necessary/cute .The "expertise in fast food" reflects more on the poster than anyone else.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even in this mess.  Stan has made it clear that he would not allow "anyone" to engage in speculation or negative comments concerning DS and 3ABN, while at the same time making it clear that his own personal speculation and negative comments about others was not only proper but funny to boot. On several occasions he has deliberately brought into a discussion "those others" that engage in speculation and rumormongering. Pretending humor several attempts were made to bring in gossip, with his approval, as long as it was concerning the "others".
He made a very definitive comment concerning his part in destroying LS chance of a ministry. For this reliable ,factual information he seems to rely on DS. As well as "he hears" LS feels the same. Lacking the maturity to either stand by his unnecessary public statements, he waltzes the mulberry bush. Perhaps he  overstated a bit.
Did Gregory do as charged or did he not? A Christian that professes so much deliberately made an ambiguous statement so that he neither had to retract or apologize. Fueling the very gossip he pretends to abhore. Maybe LS should get a grip and follow where everyone claims to know God is leading ,as in another ministry. I have often wondered if God is amused or dumbfounded by all the people that "KNOW" his will for another.
If God is leading, I for one believe LS better be willing to follow. Not tell God where she wants him to take her.

However that has nothing to do with the malicious cracks being made. Nothing to do with accusations that you cannot back up and are pulling out of the air for the entertainment of those that you feel support you. Again, that seems to be a part of the script for both sides in this whole sorry mess
The two sides seem to be getting so close together in conduct that they are blurring into one.

“bonnie,”

I don’t want to be offensive (although you probably know that I can), but it seems to me that you have adopted a PATRONIZING attitude towards me. I want to assure you that you have no special authority to produce statements such as the ones above. You are entitled ONLY to a MERE OPINION or INTERPRETATION in matters such as the ones we are discussing now.

I don’t know how many messages you have exchanged with Stan Jensen, but I have exchanged quite a lot of them with him.  I will stop here with my comments on Stan Jensen because I don’t want to get into conflict with the administration of the forum. Please, do not interpret my comments on Stan as malicious, but as true statements about his value as a man and as an SDA.


As for Gregory, he may be your “TRUSTED friend,” but he is not MY TRUSTED FRIEND. Because I don’t know him personally, I base my judgments (And I am entitled to such judgments!) on his messages.  His messages are DOUBLE TALK, and many others in the forum have doubts about where he stands on the issues related to Danny Shelton.

Your impression that I have tried to be “cute,” when I wrote the note about Stan amuses me. If you knew me you would know that I never try to be “cute,” and neither do I try to make comments “for the entertainment of those that you feel support me.” Again, you are assuming too much. I don’t need anyone’s approval for my opinions and perspectives. I have learned to stand on my own.

You seem to be venturing into unknown territory. That is, for some reason you appear to think that you can read minds. You cannot. Keep that in mind when you write messages like the one I am responding to.

Eduard

[bonnie]

Gailon,

As one who has known Stan Jensen for many years, I believe that his only "expertise" is in FAST FOOD.

Eduard

I think it obvious I am not a friend or fan of Stan Jensen,but some of the comments are way over the top, concerning both he and Gregory Matthews, who I do consider a TRUSTED friend.

They are not necessary/cute .The "expertise in fast food" reflects more on the poster than anyone else.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even in this mess.  Stan has made it clear that he would not allow "anyone" to engage in speculation or negative comments concerning DS and 3ABN, while at the same time making it clear that his own personal speculation and negative comments about others was not only proper but funny to boot. On several occasions he has deliberately brought into a discussion "those others" that engage in speculation and rumormongering. Pretending humor several attempts were made to bring in gossip, with his approval, as long as it was concerning the "others".
He made a very definitive comment concerning his part in destroying LS chance of a ministry. For this reliable ,factual information he seems to rely on DS. As well as "he hears" LS feels the same. Lacking the maturity to either stand by his unnecessary public statements, he waltzes the mulberry bush. Perhaps he  overstated a bit.
Did Gregory do as charged or did he not? A Christian that professes so much deliberately made an ambiguous statement so that he neither had to retract or apologize. Fueling the very gossip he pretends to abhore. Maybe LS should get a grip and follow where everyone claims to know God is leading ,as in another ministry. I have often wondered if God is amused or dumbfounded by all the people that "KNOW" his will for another.
If God is leading, I for one believe LS better be willing to follow. Not tell God where she wants him to take her.

However that has nothing to do with the malicious cracks being made. Nothing to do with accusations that you cannot back up and are pulling out of the air for the entertainment of those that you feel support you. Again, that seems to be a part of the script for both sides in this whole sorry mess
The two sides seem to be getting so close together in conduct that they are blurring into one.

Did you forget what you wanted to say or did you just think it should be posted twice. This time in the blue

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Anyman, I can read and have enough accounting experience to know that there is a failure to properly disclose, there are clearly issues relating to the real property transactions, there are clearly issues relating to the relationship between 3ABN, DLS, PPA and Remnant publications.

Now the blood soaked and shrunken glove may not fit, but I also know that Simpson was guilty of murder. It took a civil trial to prove it.

SO stay tuned and produce a copy of this \"exoneration\" letter for us all to see!!!

I fear it is as elusive as the evidence against Linda. Maybe it will just get \"lost\"!!!

SO, ANYMAN, produce the \"exoneration\" letter. Simple thing to do if it exists!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

Hey Gailon,

How sure are you?

What do you think the chances are that 3ABN will produce the Exoneration letter from the IRS?

50/50?   20/80 ?

Jack in the box

DIdn't I already answer that above? What are the chances they will produce any evidence against Linda after four years?

But, the more imortant issue is, as I stated many times in the past, the hurdle for a criminal charge is very high, whereas the bar for civil action is so much lower.

The problem is, I cannot ignore the clear communications within the horse deal, or the process used in the property deals, nor can I ignore the statements given from
staff regarding the money earned on the Ten Commandments Twice Removed book and other book transactions that simply are not disclosed on the 3ABN 990.

So, I believe there is a great deal of difference between a premise that the Governments have elected not to bring criminal charges and "exoneration".

The good news is that 3ABN today is substantially different from the 3ABN pre- October of 2007. They have a former NAD President as President of 3ABN and a former conference Treasurer that is the 3ABN Treasurer and the composition of the board is substantially different. In time the day to day management, including programming, will change as well.

Have we had an impact on those clear changes? I doubt that 3ABN would be inclined to admit we have. And it is unfortunate that we had to come this far to see these changes. The record clearly demonstrated there was a need for change and I believe we at least accurately demonstrated that record. It is unfortunate the prior Board ignored the opportunity to bring the reforms needed.

But, as a final word, if they were to post any letter at all, it would be a great step in the right direction. Certainly would clarify, I Hope, the brother's assertions.

Gailon Arthur Joy

=====

Edited to separate original post from quoted posts.