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[Habanero]

Your very unchristian post sounds familiar.....anyway....do you know Mr. Shelton?  If not you are going on heresay and gossip. According to the word that is sin. If you do know him ,have you practiced "if you have ought with your brother"?  If not, it is sin.

Do you know Linda Shelton? If yes, can you prove she was not guilty of said affair?  If you don't know her then you have nada to base any of your comments on and are making rash judgements all around.  Very wrong.   Here are the facts.  Sin is sin and all sin leads to loss of eternal life.  So all of your judgements, unchristian words, and participation in gossip and character assassination is just as great a sin as those supposedly committed by those that you accuse. There is one difference though.  You do not know or cannot prove that Mr. Shelton has done any of the things that you accuse him of and if you are wrong, he stands, just another imperfect human being, striving for the kingdom.  But, where you are concerned, it matters not whether he is guilty or innocent, your actions of judging others, participating in gossip, bringing supposed problems within the church to the public, wishing harm on others and not practicing matt 18 are sin, no matter what.

Summery?  The odds of making it to the kingdom for you and your friends are far less IMO than for Danny, Walt, or any of the rest.  Even though no one is perfect and in hindsight we could all improve decisions, I don't believe that Danny, Walt, Garwin or any of the rest of those men have done anything intentionaly wrong. You, on the other hand are knowingly and willingly participating in gossip, heresay and rumors. That is intentional. That is sin.

And your "very unchristian" post sounds familiar. Do you know Danny Shelton? If so can you prove that he is not guilty of any of whatever it is he has been accused of?

So now you are the arbiter of what comprises christianity? Do you know Fairhavens? Have you spoken with her? Were you practicing the Matt 18 thing that you attacked her with when you made the following statement of fact about her? "You, on the other hand are knowingly and willingly participating in gossip, heresay and rumors. That is intentional. That is sin." Have you spoken with her as you insist other must do? Are you holding others to a standard that you refuse to adhere to yourself? If you are going to demand a certain standard of others, you need to follow it yourself.

[Emma]

Round and round the mulberry bush.......


Has anyone on this board absolute proof that Linda is guilty of adultery?   It is usually easier to prove a positive than a negative.

I have no personal knowledge of 3ABN or its people, everything I know has been gleaned from this and other boards.   I try to keep an open mind, but it has seemed for a long time that the 'we have proof of the adultery but we are not showing you' line is wearing rather thin.  After all that accusation was the start of the upheaval wasn't it, even if things have gone off in various other directions since. 

As I said, I have no personal stake in any of this - that is just the way it seems to some one from the outside looking in.

[guide4him]

And Danny hisself even admitted he didn't have any proof... also check the divorce. No accusasions of adultry included. Still waiting for that "proof that is soon to come".

[ex3abnemployee]

And your "very unchristian" post sounds familiar. Do you know Danny Shelton? If so can you prove that he is not guilty of any of whatever it is he has been accused of?

So now you are the arbiter of what comprises christianity? Do you know Fairhavens? Have you spoken with her? Were you practicing the Matt 18 thing that you attacked her with when you made the following statement of fact about her? "You, on the other hand are knowingly and willingly participating in gossip, heresay and rumors. That is intentional. That is sin." Have you spoken with her as you insist other must do? Are you holding others to a standard that you refuse to adhere to yourself? If you are going to demand a certain standard of others, you need to follow it yourself.

I feel left out. How come nobody ever asks me if I know Danny or Linda?

[Emma]

As I would hate you to remain feeling left out, Duane:  "Do you know either  Danny or Linda Shelton?"

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

As I would hate you to remain feeling left out, Duane:  "Do you know either  Danny or Linda Shelton?"

Well, I know no-one asked, but, YUP, got to comminicate extensively with both Danny and Linda.

Danny repeatedly came up a bit short, or we have referred to it as factually challenged. Not just once or twice, but repeatedly. And most particularly, he did not produce documents, recordings, phone records or produce collaterall statements that really supported his badly damaged credibility.

Linda came up "Blonde", but backed up her statement with collateral statements, e-mail or documents. Not sure she always understood the import of the documents rendered, but they were "fatal" to Danny's perpetual misrepresentation of time, place and persons. In fact, she was sitting on a treasure trove of documentation that repeatedly exonerated her and clearly challenged the veracity of Danny Lee Shelton. In fact, it is safe to declare that he was so far all over the field on some issues, he had contradictatory statements on the same issue... repeatedly!!!

I wish it had only been the divorce, but it quickly moved to financial issues and the entire can of worms fell right on the floor at our feet...we could not ignore it!!!

Also worth noting that once we began to question the veracity of clear contradictions, the door was closed by Danny. We never closed that door.
Danny closed the door and arrogantly declared we were "nobodies"...so SAM,
is it sin to shut the door and refuse to address the clear sins in the camp???
Is it a sin to divorce ones wife without any proof of adultery when she denies it?
Is it a sin to pretend that your only means of support are from a modest salary when you are not disclosing large sums of collateral income from the same source for years?
Is it a sin to refuse to mediate the differences via an ecclesiastical forum?
Is it a sin to sue ones brother in a civil court?

We simply could not ignore and you should not!!!

Neither will a jury!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Eduard]

"sam,"

I guess the only posts you are reading are your own. So, let me repeat myself and repost a comment I have made a little while ago about your "pet topic," Matthew 18, and which APPLIES DIRECTLY TO YOU, TOO:


______________________


"Junebug,"

Are you trained in Biblical Interpretation? Can you read the Bible in its original languages (Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic)? Are you an expert in Linguistics? I guess the answer to my questions would be: "None of the above!" All you know about the Bible is what your parents read to you for the Bedtime Story time.

Let me give you a mini lesson in PLAIN BIBLICAL READING: Matthew 18 deals with ONE-TO-ONE ISSUES between members of the church. Let me quote:

"If another member of the church SINS AGAINST YOU, go and point out the fault WHEN THE TWO OF YOU ARE ALONE" (Mt 18:15, NIV).


The case is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT when matters are PUBLIC. Such matters must be dealt with PUBLICLY. Paul (unlike you) knew this matter, and when he caught Peter acting hypocritically in Antioch he DENOUNCED PETER IN PUBLIC. Let me quote:

"But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas BEFORE THEM ALL (!!!!!), "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile, and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?" (Galatians 2:11-14, NIV). 


PUBLIC MATTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH PUBLICLY. So, you are wrong when you state:

"Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public."


You assumption that "The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published" is just a speculation. Garwin McNeilus could have simply bought the story from the magazine or threatened the magazine with his lawyers, in order to make them shut up. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN THIS COUNTRY. What happened years ago is relevant today because the boy is the father of the man.

Garwin McNeilus' dark dealings were made PUBLIC. Matthews 18 has nothing to do with it. YouR suggestion that Johann go and talk to Garwin about that PUBLIC MATTER only shows your ignorance in Biblical matters.

GOT IT?


Eduard


______________________

All your posts are written in the "DADA" style. I don't expect you to know what this means, but let me ask you: What papers are you using to get cuts from and pull them from a hat in order to "construct" your "messages"? Believe me, it is hard for me to find anywhere, in any text, more nonsense than you pack in your "messages." What a terrible pity that I cannot do a little text analysis of your posts. I got already two warnings from the moderators when I expressed my PROFESSIONAL opinions about the level of your mates' writing skills, so I will refrain from saying anything about yours.


Do me a favor, though: Please, ask someone who knows English to write your posts!

Eduard

[ex3abnemployee]

As I would hate you to remain feeling left out, Duane:  "Do you know either  Danny or Linda Shelton?"

Why, yes! Yes I do. Both of them actually. Thank you for asking. I feel so much better now.

[guide4him]

As I would hate you to remain feeling left out, Duane:  "Do you know either  Danny or Linda Shelton?"

Why, yes! Yes I do. Both of them actually. Thank you for asking. I feel so much better now.

For clarity, I noticed you said it in the present sense.

[Kitty]

I don't read here regularly, but just noticed a post that was critical of George Vandeman.
I happen to have known the Vandemans and have been in their  home and they have visited mine in past years.
Pastor Vandeman was a very dedicated, kind, Christian gentleman who loved the Lord and people.   
Most folk that have several children do experience some problems.  Look at Adam and Eve.  I do know that some of the problems were beyond the control of  George and Nellie. neither were some of the problems caused by them.
Pastor Vandeman deserves our respect.   I fully expect to see him in heaven, if I make it there, with a crown heavy with stars.
 

[SDAminister]

I don't read here regularly, but just noticed a post that was critical of George Vandeman.
I happen to have known the Vandemans and have been in their  home and they have visited mine in past years.
Pastor Vandeman was a very dedicated, kind, Christian gentleman who loved the Lord and people.   
Most folk that have several children do experience some problems.  Look at Adam and Eve.  I do know that some of the problems were beyond the control of  George and Nellie. neither were some of the problems caused by them.
Pastor Vandeman deserves our respect.   I fully expect to see him in heaven, if I make it there, with a crown heavy with stars.
 

Interesting. A close relative of mine (now deceased) was Elder Vandeman's mentor many, many years ago.

[ex3abnemployee]

I don't read here regularly, but just noticed a post that was critical of George Vandeman.
I happen to have known the Vandemans and have been in their  home and they have visited mine in past years.
Pastor Vandeman was a very dedicated, kind, Christian gentleman who loved the Lord and people.   
Most folk that have several children do experience some problems.  Look at Adam and Eve.  I do know that some of the problems were beyond the control of  George and Nellie. neither were some of the problems caused by them.
Pastor Vandeman deserves our respect.   I fully expect to see him in heaven, if I make it there, with a crown heavy with stars.
 

Interesting. A close relative of mine (now deceased) was Elder Vandeman's mentor many, many years ago.

While employed at 3ABN, I had the privilege of meeting George Vandeman, Joe Crews and Marshall Grosboll, all of whom have since passed on. I had more interaction with Pastor Grosboll since he actually taped in our studio, but I had the utmost respect for all three of these gentlemen.

edited to correct formatting

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I never met Vandeman, but I did meet Marshall Grossboll ( not like his brother John at all) and Joe Crews. The Lord took these men to their rest WAY TOO EARLY for the sake of the church. They had standards and purpose and could not be shaken from their committment.

Ron Spear was visiting our home the day Joe Crews died on the operating tabel and he literally cried like a baby. He just could not believe that such a centerpiece of historic SDA beliefs could be gone so quickly and without warning. He stated that it was a great blow to the SDA standard bearers and by and large he was correct.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Fran]

I never met Vandeman, but I did meet Marshall Grossboll ( not like his brother John at all) and Joe Crews. The Lord took these men to their rest WAY TOO EARLY for the sake of the church. They had standards and purpose and could not be shaken from their commitment.

Ron Spear was visiting our home the day Joe Crews died on the operating table and he literally cried like a baby. He just could not believe that such a centerpiece of historic SDA beliefs could be gone so quickly and without warning. He stated that it was a great blow to the SDA standard bearers and by and large he was correct.

Gailon Arthur Joy

I also cried when I heard Joe Crews died!  He pastored at the church of my childhood.  I went to school with his children, Larry, Dennis and Ronnie.  Ronnie developed a tumor and died.  The following Sabbath he preached a sermon to comfort us.  He preached about the joy of heaven when we would all be reunited.  All of his family was on the front pew, just as always.  He died way too soon.  Joe Crews and Bob May put together the 1st Amazing Facts Bible Studies.  They told it like it was!

I still miss him and his family.

[Artiste]

I knew George Vandeman, and also his and Nelly's daughter Connie.  A talented family, and one with a lot of humor!