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[Artiste]

I've noticed on some of the forums wishes expressed that might be characterized as "Can't we all just get along?".

Some say they have had enough of prolonged conflict and that "both sides" are equally guilty of bad behavior. 

Others are just weary of continual discussion of the issues and problems.

So are we all, on both sides, "God's chosen children" as some see it, in the future all standing together on the sea of glass?

Do Bob Pickle's and Gailon Joys's so-called tactics put them on the same moral plane as Danny Shelton, Tommy Shelton, and Walt Thompson with the multiple allegations against them?

Do we have a reason to keep discussing these issues?

   

[Bob Pickle]

Sorry. I can't answer since I have a conflict of interest.

[Snoopy]

What great questions you have posed, Artiste.  Very thought provoking.

I guess what I am most tired of is not necessarily the 3ABN issues themselves (I don't mean to say the issues are not important) but the way folks have managed to personalize them and then prioritize them.  Wrong is wrong, period.  Who is to say that the abuse issues are more important than the wrongful termination issues or the financial issues or the divorce issues or whatever other issues there might be?  Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible that if we are guilty of breaking one commandment we are guilty of breaking them all?

What I have observed since starting to read these forums is the tendency of some to embrace their own particular pet issue to the point that it becomes its own monster - they live it, eat it, breathe it and sleep it until it becomes all consuming and nothing else matters.  We are all children of God.  Certain issues may affect me differently than they affect someone else - that doesn't mean the issues that concern me are more important than the others.  Issues affecting Linda Shelton are different than those affecting FHB or Dr. Thompson.  And those affecting the fired Trust Department employees are different than those of the Clem brothers.  But they are all issues and they all matter.

I guess I'm rambling now and not making much sense.  I'm just really sad.

Snoopy

[Chrissie]

Do we have a reason to keep discussing these issues?    

If we let it 'die a natural death', won't that be just what Danny and 3abn hope for?

[runner4him]

Artiste,

You ask do we have a reason to keep discussing these issues? 

Well, I ask.... has anything been resolved?  Has the clean up crew finished the work or even begun to do that which was and still is so sorely needed?  Are people suggesting a bigger rug? I sense some feel a weariness with it all but that is exactly what a long law suit was intended to accomplish.....  Wear down those who ask questions and stand for truth and righteousness. 

I find it odd that those who say they were on one side quickly turned the other direction when they disagreed with defense tactics.  When one side via a person attacks, it is necessary to defend and get to the bottom of issues or what lies behind the scene in order to build a defense...after all it is a law suit with a need to defend oneself. 

It does seem that some are willing to carry a certain banner for truth and restitution while willing to wink at another issue and blame and judge motives of those who carry another banner.

I have been questioned if I posted for another as if I do not have a mind of my own and as if I am able to be manipulated.  Are the ones we have trusted and confided in spoken truthfully or full of betrayal? 

I still applaud Joy and Pickle even if they may have made mistakes for which one of us has not.  After all they are DEFENDENTS.  What do any of the rest of us have to lose in this battle?  It is easy for those hiding behind false names to say "do this" or "do that". 

I still believe this is a worthy cause.... to stand up and be counted on all of the issues.  Let our prayers be for peace and an end to this madness but there must be repentance, restitution, and healing for all. 

[Artiste]

Well, I ask.... has anything been resolved?  Has the clean up crew finished the work or even begun to do that which was and still is so sorely needed?  Are people suggesting a bigger rug? 

Are people suggesting a bigger rug...

That's an interesting thought!

Do you think the ones wanting to keep things quiet go beyond Danny Shelton and 3ABN?  How about ASI?  And what about other organizations that want to see the 3ABN platform stay afloat regardless of what might need to be swept under the rug?

[Artiste]

Sorry. I can't answer since I have a conflict of interest.

This isn't the courtroom here!   

[runner4him]

Are people suggesting a bigger rug...

That's an interesting thought!

Do you think the ones wanting to keep things quiet go beyond Danny Shelton and 3ABN?  How about ASI?  And what about other organizations that want to see the 3ABN platform stay afloat regardless of what might need to be swept under the rug?

They will need a bigger rug. 

I am saddened but not discouraged to realize how wide the corruption or willingness to cover up things really is.  I have a new perception of our church and those high up the ladder where they think "for the betterment we can ignore this or that".  I guess that is why Jesus was hated so by the establishment in His day.  He spoke out against it all. 

[Chrissie]

Do you think the ones wanting to keep things quiet go beyond Danny Shelton and 3ABN?  How about ASI?  And what about other organizations that want to see the 3ABN platform stay afloat regardless of what might need to be swept under the rug?

That is indeed an intersting thought. What other organisations do you think could benefit by sweeping this all under a rug?

[Artiste]

I don't know...what other organizations do you think of?

ASI has been mentioned from early on as having a contingency that was supporting 3ABN, and continued that support in spite of all the allegations coming up.

[Artiste]

The focus has been all this time on Danny Shelton and 3ABN--with the two considered to be almost synonymous.

But now with DS being sidelined, the perception might be that 3ABN is renewed and rejuvenated.

Without looking too closely into the matter, probably a lot of church members and leaders are hoping that things can get back to normal and that 3ABN will still be there.



 

[Chrissie]

The focus has been all this time on Danny Shelton and 3ABN--with the two considered to be almost synonymous.

But now with DS being sidelined, the perception might be that 3ABN is renewed and rejuvenated.

Without looking too closely into the matter, probably a lot of church members and leaders are hoping that things can get back to normal and that 3ABN will still be there.

This is what I'm hearing from the trenches; that Danny has gone and it's under new management, so there's nothing to worry about any more.

So, are our leaders leading the stockholders in the pews, into thinking that all is well? If so, where do we need to go now?   

[Artiste]

This is what I'm hearing from the trenches; that Danny has gone and it's under new management, so there's nothing to worry about any more.

So, are our leaders leading the stockholders in the pews, into thinking that all is well? If so, where do we need to go now?   

That's exactly what I was thinking this last hour, Chrissie!

Where do we need to go now?

I considered speaking with conference/union officials that might be available locally and asking for a statement from them as to their status on the question of 3ABN problems being "swept under the rug".

But I do happen to know that most of them in this particular part of the country don't even have 3ABN on their radar...and don't really care...

So I'm still wondering what to do next!

[Artiste]

I still applaud Joy and Pickle even if they may have made mistakes for which one of us has not.  After all they are DEFENDENTS.  What do any of the rest of us have to lose in this battle?  It is easy for those hiding behind false names to say "do this" or "do that". 

I don't think they've made mistakes.

[Johann]

I've noticed on some of the forums wishes expressed that might be characterized as "Can't we all just get along?".

Some say they have had enough of prolonged conflict and that "both sides" are equally guilty of bad behavior. 

Others are just weary of continual discussion of the issues and problems.

So are we all, on both sides, "God's chosen children" as some see it, in the future all standing together on the sea of glass?

Do Bob Pickle's and Gailon Joys's so-called tactics put them on the same moral plane as Danny Shelton, Tommy Shelton, and Walt Thompson with the multiple allegations against them?

Do we have a reason to keep discussing these issues?

   

Your questions are exactly mine as well. I sensed that the atmosphere started changing on BSDA about the time when Nick Miller's letter was posted. I still have a hard time understanding why that made such a difference as to some people almost changing sides, but then I might be biased because I have been so deeply involved in this case right from the beginning?

Linda put it this way just the other day, Johann, you were one of the 4-5 people whom I could talk to when every one else closed their doors on me.

This situation might be difficult to understand if you have not experienced it. For several years Linda was increasingly in the limelight and people felt she was such a blessing to them by her proclaiming a faith that went straight to the heart. Just overnight this was completely changed. Not only did she have no more access to the media, but the whole staff of 120 people turned against her by the pronouncements of her husband and his intimate buddies ruling the 3ABN empire.

Some time after this happened Linda met a lady from the staff in a store. She seemed so surprised to discover that Linda still looked like a normal person because she was given the impression Linda had suddenly joined a strange heretical sect, and therefore it was dangerous to talk to her. Yes, the staff had been warned they'd be fired if they even talked to Linda. Even if they'd just happen to meet her in a shopping center. Only a few ventured to give her a subdued smile or a greeting.

Last night I got a glimpse of a TV discussion by historians, sociologists, veterans, politicians, etc. on the state of attitudes and world affairs. There was an agreement that people tend to forget the past. In the local area the youth are fairly well aware of the evils of Nazism, but they have very little knowledge of the dangers of communism. Why should they know of these dangers? To prevent the same curse from overwhelming the nation in the future.

What,then, is our task? How can it be accomplished?

Do we need a clear definition of Sheltonism and see how we may prevent it from penetrating the rank and file of Adventism that it may not make our message and proclamation without effect and create a rancor against the undiluted truth?