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[Ozzie]

Anyman, you didn't answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Mr. Pickle, I am not going to waste the time of those who read here with questions that hold no relevance to the issues being discussed. If you want to ask a question that is applicable, holds relevance, then I may indulge you - but this one, not wasting anyone's time on it.

Look at the complaint. It clearly talks about whether Danny had biblical grounds for divorce or not. But the plaintiffs don't want us to touch that one, it appears.

You are wrong, I pointed this out, you can choose to ignore it or accept it . . . but it has been asked and answered, go back and check.

They also make the allegation that 3ABN is a principled, dedicated ministry, and has been so for more than 20 years, but they don't want us to touch that allegation either.

Your >opinion< in regards to this issue is immaterial. The mission of 3ABN, the work of 3ABN, the dedication of those who work there from top to bottom will convince a jury that you are lowing smoke up the wrong chimney. If 3ABN wanted to parade one witness after another who would testify to the dedication, the principle, and the Christian spirit they could keep the jury in rapt attention for months . . . but then you don't care about the souls lead to the foot of the cross, you just want to be "right," you want to "win," you aren't interested in the saving of souls - or so the fruit on your tree would indicate.

So why don't they simply remove all such allegations form their complaint?

The Complaint is pretty through and successfully outlines the issues that are being litigated. You have to choose . . . let me add some emphasis . . . YOU . . . have to decide if you are going to remain within the context of the Complaint or waste the courts time and your nonexistent finances trying to make this into more than the Court has acknowledge the case is about. You have your own personal agenda and the Court doesn't care - it just doesn't care what your personal issues are, your personal agenda is, it is going to force you to remain within the appropriate context so you don't waste their time or money.

Another allegation is that donations have declined, and have declined because of us. But they don't want us to touch that one either.

Again, you are trying to add to what has been defined. You want more, you want to spend months and weeks trying to make your case. You want access to all the documents in your list - relevant or not - If you bothered to remain within the context of the Complaint you might actually ave completed your discovery and be in oral arguments already . . . but you just want to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on . . . only to in the end be left naked in front of those you have deluded.

So answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Here it is, in case you missed it in the beginning of my response . . . I am not going to waste readers time on your questions when they are not relevant or within the context of the Complaint. You can complain, even whine about it, but there is no use or benefit in discussing this. You need to pull back and focus your discovery on those documents and depositions that actually have something to do with the Complaint.

[/color][/b]

Does the GREEN pen come from that of an auditor or other financial officer of 3abn, or is it only coincidence?

[anyman]

Anyman, you didn't answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Mr. Pickle, I am not going to waste the time of those who read here with questions that hold no relevance to the issues being discussed. If you want to ask a question that is applicable, holds relevance, then I may indulge you - but this one, not wasting anyone's time on it.

Look at the complaint. It clearly talks about whether Danny had biblical grounds for divorce or not. But the plaintiffs don't want us to touch that one, it appears.

You are wrong, I pointed this out, you can choose to ignore it or accept it . . . but it has been asked and answered, go back and check.

They also make the allegation that 3ABN is a principled, dedicated ministry, and has been so for more than 20 years, but they don't want us to touch that allegation either.

Your >opinion< in regards to this issue is immaterial. The mission of 3ABN, the work of 3ABN, the dedication of those who work there from top to bottom will convince a jury that you are lowing smoke up the wrong chimney. If 3ABN wanted to parade one witness after another who would testify to the dedication, the principle, and the Christian spirit they could keep the jury in rapt attention for months . . . but then you don't care about the souls lead to the foot of the cross, you just want to be "right," you want to "win," you aren't interested in the saving of souls - or so the fruit on your tree would indicate.

So why don't they simply remove all such allegations form their complaint?

The Complaint is pretty through and successfully outlines the issues that are being litigated. You have to choose . . . let me add some emphasis . . . YOU . . . have to decide if you are going to remain within the context of the Complaint or waste the courts time and your nonexistent finances trying to make this into more than the Court has acknowledge the case is about. You have your own personal agenda and the Court doesn't care - it just doesn't care what your personal issues are, your personal agenda is, it is going to force you to remain within the appropriate context so you don't waste their time or money.

Another allegation is that donations have declined, and have declined because of us. But they don't want us to touch that one either.

Again, you are trying to add to what has been defined. You want more, you want to spend months and weeks trying to make your case. You want access to all the documents in your list - relevant or not - If you bothered to remain within the context of the Complaint you might actually ave completed your discovery and be in oral arguments already . . . but you just want to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on . . . only to in the end be left naked in front of those you have deluded.

So answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Here it is, in case you missed it in the beginning of my response . . . I am not going to waste readers time on your questions when they are not relevant or within the context of the Complaint. You can complain, even whine about it, but there is no use or benefit in discussing this. You need to pull back and focus your discovery on those documents and depositions that actually have something to do with the Complaint.

[/color][/b]

Does the GREEN pen come from that of an auditor or other financial officer of 3abn, or is it only coincidence?

Spelling test . . . how do you spell, diversion . . . D I V E R S I O N . . . diversion . . .

How about if you focus on the content of the thread? Offer some substantive content to the thread in terms of the points being made. I don't see you addressing anything at all that is contained in my post, in Mr. Pickle's post, or any post in this thread . . . merely a comment meant to try and tie me to some profession in an extended effort to try and connect me to some identity . . . give it up . . . this is a discussion and not a puzzle for you to figure out.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

No need as the Court, more than likely, will require you to stick to the context of the Complaint. Again, you think you can manipulate the court and falsely assume you can operate outside the laws of the land the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Time to follow the letter of law Mr. Pickle.

Well, anyman, why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Thank-you Anyman for that clarification. Have you read the allegations? I'd say they have given us pretty broad scope and relevancy is almost anything. In fact, I would challenge you to give me an example of production that is not relevant to the claim. You can get a preview of the arguments that are dead ahead. PACER in advance...nothing too terribly secretive about it!!!

So, ANYMAN, me thinks the problem is FAILURE to Produce, not relevancy. But, I'd love to give you a shot at it!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[anyman]

Don't thank me as I do not do you any favors, nor do I defend your cause or support even an iota of it . . . My heart and my effort belong to the Creator of the Universe, the one and only true God who judges us all. My words are not for your benefit, your defense, your use or my glorification - but for the defense of my Savior.

Once again you walk around the room thumping your chest, banging a gong, bellowing as loud as you can in an effort to distract the "listening" public so thy can't see the truth.

There is no license provided to you . . . only that which you have manufactured in your own dreams. In your head, relevance may be a nebulous thing and open to your interpretation - but that would only be in your delusional perspective. The Court is going to focus narrowly on the Complaint and limited you to those things that you can sufficiently argue are within the original scope of the Complaint. You may think the Court is enamored of you and your pro se position - but the judge and the Court aren't going to buy your snake oil and aren't going to be entertained by your pro se approach. You may have a little paralegal training under you belt, but that is akin to a low single A pitcher going up against Alex Rodriguez.

Here you are wrong again . . . you want the issue to be "failure to produce" when in actuality you are going to be left holding an empty bag because Rule 26 is going to be your undoing. If you cold reign in your out of control partner you might be able to get a little glimmer of acknowledgment from the courts . . . but as it stands, the court is going to see the harassment, the effort to expand the case, the unreasonable demands and is going to shut you down like a bankrupt business . . . oops.

You love to banner wave, chest thump . . . but we all know what "goeth before a fall' . . . In the past you have been able to intimidate, threaten, cajole, manipulate, and subject to false accusations and hyperbole - but not this time. You actually have to stand in front of the Court and meet the letter of the law . . . and wanting you will be.

We'll deal with your abuse of Rule 34 next.

No need as the Court, more than likely, will require you to stick to the context of the Complaint. Again, you think you can manipulate the court and falsely assume you can operate outside the laws of the land the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Time to follow the letter of law Mr. Pickle.

Well, anyman, why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Thank-you Anyman for that clarification. Have you read the allegations? I'd say they have given us pretty broad scope and relevancy is almost anything. In fact, I would challenge you to give me an example of production that is not relevant to the claim. You can get a preview of the arguments that are dead ahead. PACER in advance...nothing too terribly secretive about it!!!

So, ANYMAN, me thinks the problem is FAILURE to Produce, not relevancy. But, I'd love to give you a shot at it!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Bob Pickle]

Anyman, looks like you have avoided answering my question again. Here it is again for your reference.

Anyman, you didn't answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Look at the complaint. It clearly talks about whether Danny had biblical grounds for divorce or not. But the plaintiffs don't want us to touch that one, it appears.

They also make the allegation that 3ABN is a principled, dedicated ministry, and has been so for more than 20 years, but they don't want us to touch that allegation either.

So why don't they simply remove all such allegations form their complaint?

Another allegation is that donations have declined, and have declined because of us. But they don't want us to touch that one either.

So answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

You sound pretty naive. You think people testifying that 3ABN is dedicated and principled is going to cut it? No way. The question will be how did 3ABN act in this situation or that situation, and was that reaction principled and dedicated. Mere assertions won't do.

I'd say that if 3ABN didn't fire Tommy, Danny, and Leonard when serious problems came to its attention, and fired or threatened others who were concerned about those serious problems, the jury will not conclude that 3ABN is dedicated and principled.

[anyman]

Anyman, looks like you have avoided answering my question again. Here it is again for your reference.

Let's see if we can help you out here . . . your question has 1. No relevance to the discussion.2. No relevance to the case, 3. Is a waste of time and  cyberspace and 4. Insults the reading public. Based on those four simple and powerful points, I am going to help you out and make it clear one more time - Ask a question that matters and I might respond. Keep asking questions that are not relevant or a waste of space and I will ignore them - whether you like it or not, as my point here is not to make you happy and comfortable.

Anyman, you didn't answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

Look at the complaint. It clearly talks about whether Danny had biblical grounds for divorce or not. But the plaintiffs don't want us to touch that one, it appears.

They also make the allegation that 3ABN is a principled, dedicated ministry, and has been so for more than 20 years, but they don't want us to touch that allegation either.

So why don't they simply remove all such allegations form their complaint?

Another allegation is that donations have declined, and have declined because of us. But they don't want us to touch that one either.

So answer my question: why doesn't 3ABN/Danny amend their complaint if they want to narrow discovery?

You sound pretty naive. You think people testifying that 3ABN is dedicated and principled is going to cut it? No way. The question will be how did 3ABN act in this situation or that situation, and was that reaction principled and dedicated. Mere assertions won't do.

Naive? : ) . . . if that makes you more comfortable engaging me in discussion go for it, I am quite certain of my ability to read, discern, research, analyze, and spend time on my knees in communication with The God of the Universe to not be intimidated by your bellicosity. Yes, people who attest to the veracity, Christian ethics, power and mission of 3ABN will hold far more weight than your manufactured commentary or hearsay. Has it dawned on you that people in this world get fired for legitimate reasons? Obviously not. It seems as if you haven't spent a moments worth of time wondering, and checking to see, if there was a legitimate reason why someone was fired or let go . . . you have just latched on in hopes that you could spin the words of the disgruntled in a way that would support your agenda.

I'd say that if 3ABN didn't fire Tommy, Danny, and Leonard when serious problems came to its attention, and fired or threatened others who were concerned about those serious problems, the jury will not conclude that 3ABN is dedicated and principled.

Go ahead, base your case on that presumption. When 3ABN streams a 1000++++ people all testifying to the fact that the message and mission of 3ABN changed their lives, led them to the foot of the cross and a life of salvation, in front of the jury . . . are you going to be surprised when members of the jury fall at the foot of the Savior broken and seeking His hand in faith? The jury will weep and wonder how you could be so naive as to believe that you could take up the mantle against the Savior and believe you would win.

[Sam]

Don't thank me as I do not do you any favors, nor do I defend your cause . . . My heart and my effort belong to the Creator of the Universe, the one and only God who judges us all. My words are not for your benefit, your defense, your use.

Once again you walk around the room thumping your chest, banging a gong, bellowing as loud as you can in an effort to distract the "listening" public so thy can't see the truth.

There is no license provided to you . . . only that which you have manufactured in your own dreams. In your head, relevance may be a nebulous thing and open to your interpretation - but that would only be in your delusional perspective. The Court is going to focus narrowly on the Complaint and limited you to those things that you can sufficiently argue are withing the original scope of the Complaint. You may think the Court is enamored of you and your pro se position - but the judge and the Court aren't going to buy your snake oil and aren't going to be entertained by your pro se approach. you may have a little paralegal training under you belt, but that is like a low single A pitcher going against Alex Rodriguez.

Here you are wrong again . . . you want the issue to be "failure to produce" when in actuality you are going to be left holding an empty bag because Rule 26 is going to be your undoing. If you cold reign in your out of control partner you might be able to get a little glimmer of acknowledgment from the courts . . . but as it stands, the court is going to see the harassment, the effort to expand the case, the unreasonable demands and is going to shut you down like a bankrupt business . . . oops.

You love to banner wave, chest thump . . . but we all know what "goeth before a fall' . . . In the past you have been able to intimidate, threaten, cajole, manipulate, and subject to false accusations and hyperbole - but not this time. You actually have to stand in front of the Court and meet the letter of the law . . . and wanting you will be.




You are hitting the nails right on the head anyman!!!  It is one thing to bragg, and "chest thump" as you said, on a simple internet forum. Federal court is another story altogether.   I have wondered also how Pickle's youtube videos will affect the courts opinions and rulings.  Seems to me that it was a bad mistake and can only hurt their cause. I don't think Joy's arrogance or intimidation tactics will do much to impress the judge either.  He will be looking at motives and intent for why they started up the internet stuff in the first place and will see their "real" characters in how and what they post.

[Ozzie]

Does the GREEN pen come from that of an auditor or other financial officer of 3abn, or is it only coincidence?

Spelling test . . . how do you spell, diversion . . . D I V E R S I O N . . . diversion . . .

How about if you focus on the content of the thread? Offer some substantive content to the thread in terms of the points being made. I don't see you addressing anything at all that is contained in my post, in Mr. Pickle's post, or any post in this thread . . . merely a comment meant to try and tie me to some profession in an extended effort to try and connect me to some identity . . . give it up . . . this is a discussion and not a puzzle for you to figure out.
[/quote]

Calm down old man! Calm down. You know that anger just isn't good for your blood pressure. You need to take more care of yourself than that. 

Maybe, some Koolaide might help?

[anyman]

Oh I wish I could contain the laughing . . . "Old man" . . . ROFL . . . Anger, oh dear Ozzie that is precious . . .  The 5 - 6 days at the gym finding ways to learn to  exercise keep me rather fit and healthy, as the Lord directed. Sorry, there is not anger, only the sense of duty to the Lord of the Universe, the One and Only True God of Creation.

Does the GREEN pen come from that of an auditor or other financial officer of 3abn, or is it only coincidence?

Spelling test . . . how do you spell, diversion . . . D I V E R S I O N . . . diversion . . .

How about if you focus on the content of the thread? Offer some substantive content to the thread in terms of the points being made. I don't see you addressing anything at all that is contained in my post, in Mr. Pickle's post, or any post in this thread . . . merely a comment meant to try and tie me to some profession in an extended effort to try and connect me to some identity . . . give it up . . . this is a discussion and not a puzzle for you to figure out.

Calm down old man! Calm down. You know that anger just isn't good for your blood pressure. You need to take more care of yourself than that.

Maybe, some Koolaide might help?
[/quote]

[Johann]

anyman, you make an interesting statement about adherents. According to your yardstick the Roman Catholic Church should be the true church since they have accumulated a much greater membership than all the other Christian Churches combined. They are much more successful than 3ABN - so they must have the truth. There should not be any discussion, right?

[Habanero]

Go ahead, base your case on that presumption. When 3ABN streams a 1000++++ people all testifying to the fact that the message and mission of 3ABN changed their lives, led them to the foot of the cross and a life of salvation, in front of the jury . . . are you going to be surprised when members of the jury fall at the foot of the Savior broken and seeking His hand in faith? The jury will weep and wonder how you could be so naive as to believe that you could take up the mantle against the Savior and believe you would win.

Anyman, what relevance do 3ABN fans and their fervor for the religious feelings they get have to this court case? Do you actually believe that the court would allow 3ABN to parade thousands of viewers through and take their testimony regarding the religious feeling that they get from watching 3ABN? LOL!!!! The melodrama of your prediction might carry the day with you, but it is has no relevance to legal realities.

[Serendipity]

Don't thank me as I do not do you any favors, nor do I defend your cause . . . My heart and my effort belong to the Creator of the Universe, the one and only God who judges us all. My words are not for your benefit, your defense, your use.

Once again you walk around the room thumping your chest, banging a gong, bellowing as loud as you can in an effort to distract the "listening" public so thy can't see the truth.

There is no license provided to you . . . only that which you have manufactured in your own dreams. In your head, relevance may be a nebulous thing and open to your interpretation - but that would only be in your delusional perspective. The Court is going to focus narrowly on the Complaint and limited you to those things that you can sufficiently argue are withing the original scope of the Complaint. You may think the Court is enamored of you and your pro se position - but the judge and the Court aren't going to buy your snake oil and aren't going to be entertained by your pro se approach. you may have a little paralegal training under you belt, but that is like a low single A pitcher going against Alex Rodriguez.

Here you are wrong again . . . you want the issue to be "failure to produce" when in actuality you are going to be left holding an empty bag because Rule 26 is going to be your undoing. If you cold reign in your out of control partner you might be able to get a little glimmer of acknowledgment from the courts . . . but as it stands, the court is going to see the harassment, the effort to expand the case, the unreasonable demands and is going to shut you down like a bankrupt business . . . oops.

You love to banner wave, chest thump . . . but we all know what "goeth before a fall' . . . In the past you have been able to intimidate, threaten, cajole, manipulate, and subject to false accusations and hyperbole - but not this time. You actually have to stand in front of the Court and meet the letter of the law . . . and wanting you will be.




You are hitting the nails right on the head anyman!!!  It is one thing to bragg, and "chest thump" as you said, on a simple internet forum. Federal court is another story altogether.   I have wondered also how Pickle's youtube videos will affect the courts opinions and rulings.  Seems to me that it was a bad mistake and can only hurt their cause. I don't think Joy's arrogance or intimidation tactics will do much to impress the judge either.  He will be looking at motives and intent for why they started up the internet stuff in the first place and will see their "real" characters in how and what they post.

i was thinking about all that people say here.

may be the good fruits from the 3abn ministry are the people who heard them and followed my Jesus and they can go to court? and the bad fruits are the people who are mad at them?

what are the fruits of Pickles you tub videos and the websites and forums he has here?

Are people being saved and loving Jesus or being mad? will they go to court too?

i don't know who will be in court. i now we are supposed to see the fruits which are showing to all of us.

i will think about this some more.

i see good and bad fruits all the time and want to have fruits like my Jesus

sera

=====

Edited to separate the quoted post from this post.

[Bob Pickle]

Anyman, what relevance do 3ABN fans and their fervor for the religious feelings they get have to this court case? Do you actually believe that the court would allow 3ABN to parade thousands of viewers through and take their testimony regarding the religious feeling that they get from watching 3ABN? LOL!!!! The melodrama of your prediction might carry the day with you, but it is has relevance to legal realities.

I'm sure Judas brought people to Jesus too, but that doesn't mean that Judas didn't betray Jesus.

If you have multiple people who say that Leonard said and did such and such in their presence, Tommy said and did such and such in their presence, and Danny himself admits that he did such and such, and if documents confirm what these individuals say, conversions won't negate such testimony.

[Sam]

Anyman, what relevance do 3ABN fans and their fervor for the religious feelings they get have to this court case? Do you actually believe that the court would allow 3ABN to parade thousands of viewers through and take their testimony regarding the religious feeling that they get from watching 3ABN? LOL!!!! The melodrama of your prediction might carry the day with you, but it is has relevance to legal realities.

I'm sure Judas brought people to Jesus too, but that doesn't mean that Judas didn't betray Jesus.

If you have multiple people who say that Leonard said and did such and such in their presence, Tommy said and did such and such in their presence, and Danny himself admits that he did such and such, and if documents confirm what these individuals say, conversions won't negate such testimony.

Why all the speculation?  Why not just wait and see what happens in court instead of the constant arrogant spirit and claims by you and Joy.  I know it is  extremely hard for you to grasp that you guys are not attorneys, neither of you have had this kind of experience in a Federal Court, and you don't know secret strategies that "real" lawyer's don't know about. That is the truth of the matter.  The other truth is that you don't have a clue what will or will not happen when testimony time arrives.  I have never heard, seen or read where 3abn attorney's are going around telling how it will be, what will be allowed or not, and ranting that they are going to win.  That's because as "real"  and experienced attorney's ,they realize you can never predict what a judge will do, how he will react or what his views will be on the relevent laws.  Those proffessionals that actually know what they are doing, keep their mouth shut, do their job to the best of their ability and DO NOT participate in speculation and gossip about what may or may not happen.

If you really want people to believe that you "have a clue" then maybe you should do likewise.

[Habanero]

Anyman states that the 3ABN attorneys will bring in over a thousand viewers and have them testify to the jury that they have achieved spiritual salvation by watching 3ABN and this will not only sway the jury, but will cause certain of the jurors to jump on the salvation through 3ABN bandwagon as well. If Anyman's sources are correct and this is the strategy that the 3ABN lawyers have set in place for winning this case (unintentional rhyme) I would be inclined to place my money on the pro-se guys who are using the law to win as  opposed to inane televangelistic theatrics.

Anyman, what relevance do 3ABN fans and their fervor for the religious feelings they get have to this court case? Do you actually believe that the court would allow 3ABN to parade thousands of viewers through and take their testimony regarding the religious feeling that they get from watching 3ABN? LOL!!!! The melodrama of your prediction might carry the day with you, but it is has relevance to legal realities.

I'm sure Judas brought people to Jesus too, but that doesn't mean that Judas didn't betray Jesus.

If you have multiple people who say that Leonard said and did such and such in their presence, Tommy said and did such and such in their presence, and Danny himself admits that he did such and such, and if documents confirm what these individuals say, conversions won't negate such testimony.

Why all the speculation?  Why not just wait and see what happens in court instead of the constant arrogant spirit and claims by you and Joy.  I know it is  extremely hard for you to grasp that you guys are not attorneys, neither of you have had this kind of experience in a Federal Court, and you don't know secret strategies that "real" lawyer's don't know about. That is the truth of the matter.  The other truth is that you don't have a clue what will or will not happen when testimony time arrives.  I have never heard, seen or read where 3abn attorney's are going around telling how it will be, what will be allowed or not, and ranting that they are going to win.  That's because as "real"  and experienced attorney's ,they realize you can never predict what a judge will do, how he will react or what his views will be on the relevent laws.  Those proffessionals that actually know what they are doing, keep their mouth shut, do their job to the best of their ability and DO NOT participate in speculation and gossip about what may or may not happen.

If you really want people to believe that you "have a clue" then maybe you should do likewise.