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[Johann]

"GrandmaNettie,"


You are confused. You are using words you don't understand, and you are misinterpreting what Bob is saying. Which attorneys are "unnecessary"? Because of the complexity of the case, and the deep hole Danny Shelton is in, all the ELEVEN ATTORNEYS have been hired to deal with the particulars of the legislation in different states. None of them is "unnecessary." And none of them does "redundant" work. If they were "unnecessary," they would not continue to be retained. The fact is that Danny Shelton is so DESPERATE about what is going to happen to him in the near future that he is afraid that eleven attorneys might not even be enough to defend him against TWO BROKE AMATEURS! Trust Joy on this: Danny Shelton will probably have to hire soon even more attorneys to protect him from the trouble he caused himself when he sued Pickle and Joy!

The question remains: Considering the ENORMOUS SUMS OF MONEY necessary to retain this WHOLE ARMY OF ATTORNEYS, from where does Danny Shelton get to money to pay them? Is it from donations received by 3ABN? Is it from Bill Gates' foundation? We know that Pickle and Joy don't have enough money even to pay for the absolutely necessary fees for this lawsuit. People have just helped them with a few thousand dollars. Pickle and Joy are broke.

Non-profit organizations are required to be transparent with their finances. Such information should be in the public domain. So, sooner or later we will find out what is the source of the FORTUNE Danny Shelton is spending to repair his beyond repair reputation. Imagine what is going to happen then! Or, don't imagine! You might have nightmares for a long time - even after all this mess is over!

Eduard

It is good to see that we have some people around who still have the ability to think straight. May your tribe increase, Eduard.

[Snoopy]

 

Great question, Fran!  I wonder if he'll need a criminal defense lawyer??

I wonder just how many Tax Lawyers he has.

[Johann]

We know that some 10+ years ago a magazine exposed Garvin McNeilus unethical methods of disposing with competition. The story also revealed that he is a SDA. GMcN lawyers went to work and sued the magazine, but I think the case was settled out of court with the magazine somehow withdrawing the article. Therefore that issue is not obtainable today, but certain individuals have a copy, and I saw it a couple of years ago.

So I suppose those lawyers are used to attack difficult cases.

[Mary Sue Smith]

Why would you bring up something that happened over ten years ago? It is very possible that the "unethical methods" you speak of were incorrect. The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published. 

This is nothing but an effort to slander Garwin McNeilus. Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public.

[guide4him]

Hmmm appears to me that G Mc is doing a wonderful job all by himself taking care of his business as usual...

just because a lawyer forced an article to be withdrawn does not mean the article is false or untrue. It could be the magazine just didn't want to go bankrupt over one article.

I don't think that going to G Mc and ask him about the allegations would guarantee an honest answer.

Slowly backing away very very carefully..... and disapearing in the woodwork so G Mc wouldn't be looking at me to sue me for making an opinion.

[Habanero]

So I suppose those lawyers are used to attack difficult cases.

Yes they are. In Massachusetts a lawyer, James Fagan, who is also a Democrat in the state house of representatives, made the following statement as to how he would deal with six year old children who had been sexually molested.

"I'm gonna rip them apart," Fagan said of young victims during his testimony on the bill. "I'm going to make sure that the rest of their life is ruined, that when they’re 8 years old, they throw up; when they’re 12 years old, they won’t sleep; when they’re 19 years old, they’ll have nightmares and they’ll never have a relationship with anybody.”

Lawyers and courts of law are regularly used in the process of revictimizing victims and crushing their lives forever. People who are used to victimizing people can become very authoritative at it, and rely on it for as a means of their personal stature and self respect.

As the story goes, there were some SDA missionaries who went to a particular part of the world that was untouched by Christianity. They set up shop and proceeded to teach the locals about Jesus. When they came to the part about Judas, the people stood and cheered, not for Jesus, but for Judas. Why? Culturally they considered it respectable and a sign of great intelligence and bravery to betray your friends. What is wrong to some is the paragon of greatness to others.

[anyman]

So then . . . you are claiming that your preconceived assumptions absolve you from following Biblical guidance? Interesting. Also, why hide? You felt strongly enough to say what you did - then you plan to hide . . . if what you say is true, Christian, and sweet in the ears of the Lord . . . why would you hide?

Hmmm appears to me that G Mc is doing a wonderful job all by himself taking care of his business as usual...

just because a lawyer forced an article to be withdrawn does not mean the article is false or untrue. It could be the magazine just didn't want to go bankrupt over one article.

I don't think that going to G Mc and ask him about the allegations would guarantee an honest answer.

Slowly backing away very very carefully..... and disapearing in the woodwork so G Mc wouldn't be looking at me to sue me for making an opinion.

[Habanero]

So then . . . you are claiming that your preconceived assumptions absolve you from following Biblical guidance? Interesting. Also, why hide? You felt strongly enough to say what you did - then you plan to hide . . . if what you say is true, Christian, and sweet in the ears of the Lord . . . why would you hide?

Hmmm appears to me that G Mc is doing a wonderful job all by himself taking care of his business as usual...

just because a lawyer forced an article to be withdrawn does not mean the article is false or untrue. It could be the magazine just didn't want to go bankrupt over one article.

I don't think that going to G Mc and ask him about the allegations would guarantee an honest answer.

Slowly backing away very very carefully..... and disapearing in the woodwork so G Mc wouldn't be looking at me to sue me for making an opinion.

Interesting question, Anyman, why did the Waldenses hide deep in the Alps when the military might of the minions of Rome sought to destroy them? Why did the woman of Revelation flee into the wilderness when the dragon was wroth with her? Why have Christians of so many ages had to practice their faith in hiding? If what Christians have had to say is sweet in the eyes of the Lord, why have they so consistently hidden from God's enemies who have so consistently used the legal systems of the time to kill and destroy God's people?

[Eduard]

"Junebug,"

Are you trained in Biblical Interpretation? Can you read the Bible in its original languages (Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic)? Are you an expert in Linguistics? I guess the answer to my questions would be: "None of the above!" All you know about the Bible is what your parents read to you for the Bedtime Story time.

Let me give you a mini lesson in PLAIN BIBLICAL READING: Matthew 18 deals with ONE-TO-ONE ISSUES between members of the church. Let me quote:

"If another member of the church SINS AGAINST YOU, go and point out the fault WHEN THE TWO OF YOU ARE ALONE" (Mt 18:15, NIV).


The case is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT when matters are PUBLIC. Such matters must be dealt with PUBLICLY. Paul (unlike you) knew this matter, and when he caught Peter acting hypocritically in Antioch he DENOUNCED PETER IN PUBLIC. Let me quote:

"But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas BEFORE THEM ALL (!!!!!), "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile, and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?" (Galatians 2:11-14, NIV). 


PUBLIC MATTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH PUBLICLY. So, you are wrong when you state:

"Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public."


You assumption that "The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published" is just a speculation. Garwin McNeilus could have simply bought the story from the magazine or threatened the magazine with his lawyers, in order to make them shut up. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN THIS COUNTRY. What happened years ago is relevant today because the boy is the father of the man.

Garwin McNeilus' dark dealings were made PUBLIC. Matthews 18 has nothing to do with it. YouR suggestion that Johann go and talk to Garwin about that PUBLIC MATTER only shows your ignorance in Biblical matters.

GOT IT?


Eduard

[Artiste]

Let me give you a mini lesson in PLAIN BIBLICAL READING: Matthew 18 deals with ONE-TO-ONE ISSUES between members of the church.

PUBLIC MATTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH PUBLICLY.

Thank you, Eduard, for pointing out what the 3ABN defenders forget when they continually use Matthew 18 as their mantra.

[Johann]

Why would you bring up something that happened over ten years ago? It is very possible that the "unethical methods" you speak of were incorrect. The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published. 

This is nothing but an effort to slander Garwin McNeilus. Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public.

You are referring to a great principle. Would it not have been wonderful if that principle had been used by those people who have slandered Linda Shelton through the past several years, partly using funds from that same person, according to information given me by Danny Shelton, to enhance the vicious slander? Without asking her any questions, and without considering anything of what I experienced in that connection?

[Cindy]

Why would you bring up something that happened over ten years ago? It is very possible that the "unethical methods" you speak of were incorrect. The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published. 

This is nothing but an effort to slander Garwin McNeilus. Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public.

You are referring to a great principle. Would it not have been wonderful if that principle had been used by those people who have slandered Linda Shelton through the past several years, partly using funds from that same person, according to information given me by Danny Shelton, to enhance the vicious slander? Without asking her any questions, and without considering anything of what I experienced in that connection?

I emailed and asked her questions and got no answer. Recorded on BSDA

Donna as recently encouraged and assisted by both you and Habenero -emailed and asked her questions and got no answer, no reply... Recorded on 3ABN defended, as she was banned here due to me being banned and being in my same household.

The 3ABN board sent her a letter which she never replied to, and then met, and she did not attend although invited to. Recorded on BSDA, and on her own website.

Her Church met to consider all and she asked to be removed as a member rather then attend and give her side as asked. Those emails have been published also on BSDA, as well as Christian Forums, and again she wrote about this on her own website.

ASI tried to facilitate a resolution process and Linda refused to participate.. Recorded on the 3ABN website, Save 3ABN website and every forum concerned with all these issues...

Gregory Matthews, one of her most staunch and faithful defenders, asked her to make a stand and say where she stood in relation to Pickle and Joy's agenda, and she declined, recorded here on this forum.

She was served a subpoena and asked to answer questions and give a deposition, and did not appear nor give that deposition, the reasons may be in current dispute, but that fact is recorded here on this forum.

She seems to have this pattern. I don't know why, but it doesn't have a good appearance.
So, I'm sorry, but having read all the above and more, I am of the opinion that you don't have a leg to stand on when claiming Linda hasn't been consulted or asked first , or in implying her words and feelings and experience are considered irrelevant or of no value, so please, Johann, give it up!

...ian

P.S.
if anyone needs any of the links to any of the examples and documentation previously posted and referred to here as evidence to support what I am posting? simply ask for it. They are easily supplied and I will gladly do so.

Truth is truth.

[Johann]

Why would you bring up something that happened over ten years ago? It is very possible that the "unethical methods" you speak of were incorrect. The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published. 

This is nothing but an effort to slander Garwin McNeilus. Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public.

You are referring to a great principle. Would it not have been wonderful if that principle had been used by those people who have slandered Linda Shelton through the past several years, partly using funds from that same person, according to information given me by Danny Shelton, to enhance the vicious slander? Without asking her any questions, and without considering anything of what I experienced in that connection?

I emailed and asked her questions and got no answer. Recorded on BSDA

Donna as recently encouraged by both you and Habenero -emailed and asked her questions and got  no answer... Recorded on 3ABN defended

The 3ABN board sent her a letter which she never replied to, and then met, and she did not attend although invited to. Recorded on BSDA.

Her Church met to consider all and she asked to be removed as a member rather then attend and give her side as asked. Those emails have been published also on BSDA, as well as Christian Forums.

ASI tried to facilitate a resolution process and Linda refused to participate.. Recorded on the 3ABN website, Save 3ABN website and every forum...

She was served a subpoena and did not appear, as recorded here.

She seems to have this pattern.

...ian

P.S.
if anyone needs the links referred to, simply ask.

All a very good reason, you seem to think, to keep on with your attacks and vicious endeavor to nullify what she and her friends have attempted to do to get the matters straightened out. You keep guessing, claiming this to be your opinions, demanding that others accept what you absolutely know nothing about, except by hearsay. Who do you know? What have you experienced or seen by yourself? You pick up a fragment of a statement here and there, adding these together in your strange configurations, like I have experienced how you have quoted my statements. Worthless trash - at its best.

[Cindy]

Why would you bring up something that happened over ten years ago? It is very possible that the "unethical methods" you speak of were incorrect. The magazine had a reason for withdrawing the article, probably because they were wrong in what they published. 

This is nothing but an effort to slander Garwin McNeilus. Have you gone to him to ask him if this published story was true or not? That is what Matthew 18 teaches Johann. Until an effort is done to find out the particulars behind this, you have no business making this public.

You are referring to a great principle. Would it not have been wonderful if that principle had been used by those people who have slandered Linda Shelton through the past several years, partly using funds from that same person, according to information given me by Danny Shelton, to enhance the vicious slander? Without asking her any questions, and without considering anything of what I experienced in that connection?

I emailed and asked her questions and got no answer. Recorded on BSDA

Donna as recently encouraged by both you and Habenero -emailed and asked her questions and got  no answer... Recorded on 3ABN defended

The 3ABN board sent her a letter which she never replied to, and then met, and she did not attend although invited to. Recorded on BSDA.

Her Church met to consider all and she asked to be removed as a member rather then attend and give her side as asked. Those emails have been published also on BSDA, as well as Christian Forums.

ASI tried to facilitate a resolution process and Linda refused to participate.. Recorded on the 3ABN website, Save 3ABN website and every forum...

She was served a subpoena and did not appear, as recorded here.

She seems to have this pattern.

...ian

P.S.
if anyone needs the links referred to, simply ask.

All a very good reason, you seem to think, to keep on with your attacks and vicious endeavor to nullify what she and her friends have attempted to do to get the matters straightened out. You keep guessing, claiming this to be your opinions, demanding that others accept what you absolutely know nothing about, except by hearsay. Who do you know? What have you experienced or seen by yourself? You pick up a fragment of a statement here and there, adding these together in your strange configurations, like I have experienced how you have quoted my statements. Worthless trash - at its best.

Whatever...

I am offering documents evidence and links to support and back what I posted, and you are offering empty claims with none of that...

You are a Pastor Johann, surely you know the value of "Proving all things" and "making diligent search" before rendering a judgment?

[judibug61]

This has certainly been a pleasant forum the past few days without your spiteful remarks about good Godly men here.....I do not appreciate nor enjoy your posts....and have not missed you at all..............................you sound like you have alot of vengance in your heart.....and that kind of attitude deteriates forums like this........I am sadden you are back. and hope and Pray for your change of heart in continually putting down good people......I don't care what you do or do not think you know.........there are some very good godly men here such as Johann....and I for one do not appreciate your putting him down.....l