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[Cindy]

I don't know what Fran is going on about... This is neither unusual nor wrong.

You just can't help yourself can you Ian? The nasty side has to come out ALWAYS.

Fran presents knowledge and facts. You present anger and defence of DS and 3abn, but can never back yourself up with evidence.

[Fran]

I have visited the donations Barn in past campmeetings and talked to both of the Chances and found them friendly, open and honest about how all works in their department and the records etc.


The mistake being made here is that people are assuming that the monthly accounts being sent to the accounting department means that the donation department does not keep daily records and such. That is simply not true.

My brother is the head of shipping and receiving in a very large company and is responsible for keeping daily records in his department, but once a month he too has to do inventory and make print outs and send all records and copies and receipts etc to the accounting department.

I don't know what Fran is going on about... This is neither unusual nor wrong.

Ian;

I am so sorry you don't understand what I am "going on" about.   It is not up to me to tell you or 3ABN how they should do business; nor is it my responsibility to educate you so you can understand the proper way business is done. 

Apparently, there are others that read Sam's post and caught on to the fact that the way things are done is not right. 

I am sorry I don't have the time to explain what the generally accepted accounting principles require, but I can say the CFO at 3ABN needs to revamp the way they do business. 

The first major thing I see is there is no division/separation  of duties in the process Sam described.  Further, your comments even tell and confirm what Sam said!  The sales person should never be in charge of inventory.  The sales person should never deal with cash receipts, ...  Ian, these are the most basic accounting that are necessary to control cash and inventory!    Separation of duties is exposed in what I have found in my many years of observing 3ABN eBay sales, now it is crystal clear that my findings are correct.

If the GC were auditing 3ABN's books as they are supposed to do as a member of ASI.  This alone, should send red flags up all over the place! 

ASI would do well to review 3ABN as a member in good standing.  They should be able to enforce proper accountability of 3ABN.   

3ABN could ask the Conference President to give him a copy of the form all Treasures have to fill out for a Church audit.  This is the very least one should do.  I mean, THE VERY LEAST".

Please respond so I can see where I am all wrong.  I wonder why Sam has not replied, don't you?

Yours in Christ,
Fran

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Hey, Fran, that was an excellent synopsis and response to poor Sam.

Can you plan on coming to Massachusetts and doing the very same show for the Jury?

That alone should cause serious concern to a Jury being told that they have "clean bills of health"  and be foundational for the rest of the defense.

Love that response and it is noticable that since you started writing in the dirt, the pharisees have left the temple one by one...

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Snoopy]

Ian - where did you study accounting??

I have visited the donations Barn in past campmeetings and talked to both of the Chances and found them friendly, open and honest about how all works in their department and the records etc.


The mistake being made here is that people are assuming that the monthly accounts being sent to the accounting department means that the donation department does not keep daily records and such. That is simply not true.

My brother is the head of shipping and receiving in a very large company and is responsible for keeping daily records in his department, but once a month he too has to do inventory and make print outs and send all records and copies and receipts etc to the accounting department.

I don't know what Fran is going on about... This is neither unusual nor wrong.

[Donna]

People have a life and can't be on here 24/7. For instance I will be gone for three days to a church conference with my mother and sister. Thought I would mention it now before it is rumored I have left for some imagined reason.

[/quote]and it is noticable that since you started writing in the dirt, the pharisees have left the temple one by one...

Gailon Arthur Joy
[/quote]

[Habanero]

LOL! That actually is quite funny Donna. You wouldn't want to be accused of having run off to have a spiritual affair with any spirits or other characters.

People have a life and can't be on here 24/7. For instance I will be gone for three days to a church conference with my mother and sister. Thought I would mention it now before it is rumored I have left for some imagined reason.

and it is noticable that since you started writing in the dirt, the pharisees have left the temple one by one...

Gailon Arthur Joy
[/quote]
[/quote]

[GrandmaNettie]

snip...
Love that response and it is noticable that since you started writing in the dirt, the pharisees have left the temple one by one...

Gailon Arthur Joy

The story of Jesus and the woman in that temple courtyard is one of my favorite stories in all of the Bible.  Perhaps this is because I have a deep empathy for the woman and the unexpected redemption she was given as our Gentle Shepherd reached His hand through her hopelessness and lifted her up into new life with Him. He knew the hearts of every person in that sad human drama.  He knew every agenda, every sin those misguided interpretors of His Law had committed in an all out effort to trap Him.

Your remarks to Fran, using the framework of this marvelous story about our Savior  brought to mind something that Bob has often spoken about....the August 10, 2006 3abn Live broadcast that likened Danny Shelton to Moses and John the Baptist.

[Sam]

3.  For FRAN. 

Never ever has there been a claim for 2.4 million or whatever it was she quoted. The quote was more than 1/2 million for approximately 4 years of work.  So Fran's claim of how donations have really "went down" was totally false.

If you can, go back to the last 2 Campmeeting videos or DVD’s, you will find that Danny did interview Tammy on the air.  Tammy did announce that since February, 3ABN had brought in $2.4 million in sales of good donated to 3ABN.  She said they had sold vehicles, Motor Homes … 


Then later they ran a full program with Bruce & Tammy, where they discouraged donors from sending 3ABN jewelry.  They explained that they could never get the value of the items.
My opinion says that if a $10,000 diamond is donated, and it only brings $2,500, that $2,500 is more than they had before the donation!  With the price of gold right now, I would take the gold jewelry also!


To solve this dilemma, I might ask that you ask Tammy about this.  She was the one on the stage, not Bruce.


I firmly state that this is a Fact.  Sales from donated items have gone down.  Tammy did not stumble when she said that amount was from February thru May, Campmeeting time.  She got great applause!  Danny was bragging about her doing so well in the sales department.  Yes, sales are down, and she did say $2.4 million. 


The reason I remember that figure is because in the 3ABN vs. the IL Property Tax Lawsuit and the 990’s brought out that  3ABN forgot to post $2.45+ Million dollars involving Trust Funds.  These amounts struck me as a coincidence.


I took that amount and took an average per month and then researched their sales from their feedback on eBay.  It had to be from sales from their other eBay sellers and the now Famous Barn Sales.


Do you by “Chance”, know the sales from the Barn Sale this year?


To Be Continued…

Fran decided not to "horse around" and take your comments and speculations straight to the source...I sent them to 3abn attention Tammy Chance and got answers to all I ask. Or, should I say you ask?   Extremely eye opening when considering a lot of what you based your comments on was incorrect.
If you want to know what is truth then go to 3abndefended and you will get your answers and will understand how "off the track" someone can get when their premise is faulty.  Might not be posted yet as posts have to be approved but I'm sure it will be soon.

[Cindy]

3.  For FRAN. 

Never ever has there been a claim for 2.4 million or whatever it was she quoted. The quote was more than 1/2 million for approximately 4 years of work.  So Fran's claim of how donations have really "went down" was totally false.

If you can, go back to the last 2 Campmeeting videos or DVD’s, you will find that Danny did interview Tammy on the air.  Tammy did announce that since February, 3ABN had brought in $2.4 million in sales of good donated to 3ABN.  She said they had sold vehicles, Motor Homes … 


Then later they ran a full program with Bruce & Tammy, where they discouraged donors from sending 3ABN jewelry.  They explained that they could never get the value of the items.
My opinion says that if a $10,000 diamond is donated, and it only brings $2,500, that $2,500 is more than they had before the donation!  With the price of gold right now, I would take the gold jewelry also!


To solve this dilemma, I might ask that you ask Tammy about this.  She was the one on the stage, not Bruce.


I firmly state that this is a Fact.  Sales from donated items have gone down.  Tammy did not stumble when she said that amount was from February thru May, Campmeeting time.  She got great applause!  Danny was bragging about her doing so well in the sales department.  Yes, sales are down, and she did say $2.4 million. 


The reason I remember that figure is because in the 3ABN vs. the IL Property Tax Lawsuit and the 990’s brought out that  3ABN forgot to post $2.45+ Million dollars involving Trust Funds.  These amounts struck me as a coincidence.


I took that amount and took an average per month and then researched their sales from their feedback on eBay.  It had to be from sales from their other eBay sellers and the now Famous Barn Sales.


Do you by “Chance”, know the sales from the Barn Sale this year?


To Be Continued…

Fran decided not to "horse around" and take your comments and speculations straight to the source...I sent them to 3abn attention Tammy Chance and got answers to all I ask. Or, should I say you ask?   Extremely eye opening when considering a lot of what you based your comments on was incorrect.
If you want to know what is truth then go to 3abndefended and you will get your answers and will understand how "off the track" someone can get when their premise is faulty.  Might not be posted yet as posts have to be approved but I'm sure it will be soon.

It is there now. Thank you Sam.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3abnDefended/message/33

[Fran]

I stand behind what I said and heard.   Now, I wonder if this amount just didn't get posted like that un-posted Trust Fund issues in the amount of $2.43 found in the Property tax lawsuit, and the IRS 900 for that same year (2000-2001).

I would go to the website, but I am not about to joining any such web site.

[Cindy]

I stand behind what I said and heard.   Now, I wonder if this amount just didn't get posted like that un-posted Trust Fund issues in the amount of $2.43 found in the Property tax lawsuit, and the IRS 900 for that same year (2000-2001).

I would go to the website, but I am not about to joining any such web site.

You don't have to join to read the post and emailed answers at the link given... Nor does any other.

Plainly Mrs Shelton who you have been talking about and finding fault with for the way she and her husband do their jobs, has facts you don't have, and a different story than yours.

[Habanero]

Mrs. Chance

Plainly Mrs Shelton who you have been talking about and finding fault with for the way she and her husband do their jobs, has facts you don't have, and a different story than yours.

[Fran]

Ian;

Why must you keep putting words in my mouth?  I am not and have not accused anyone of anything.  I am saying 3ABN has defective cash control procedures. 

I admire Bruce and Tammy's entrepreneurial talents.  I have even posted that on other forums.  The way business is conducted is the responsibility of the CFO, Board and president. It is not the responsibility of the sales person.  I have never condemned them!  I have only spoken clearly about the accounting processes of 3ABN, or the clear lack thereof, at 3ABN. [/size]

Their story is very clear.  They are only citing the way things are done.  3ABN has FAR more financial issues than 3ABN eBay!  Their whole accounting processes needs to be dumped and started from scratch to set things to the correct procedures and applying the correct processes. 

However, there nay be some issues that I have knowledge of that could involve Tammy, but this is another story for another time.  Until that time, please understand that I have in no way condemned Tammy or Bruce of any thing. 

I am truly sad and sorry that you seem to hear what I have not said.  Do you know something I have no knowledge of?  Are you trying to scare me, or trying to make me look bad by accusing me of saying things I did not say?  I will be praying for you to have a clearer mind so you can only take what is written and not jump to conclusions.

Please pray that I will write more concisely so others will only see and understand what is written and not something that is not there. 

Please give Bruce and Tammy Chance my sincerest apology if they feel I am pointing fingers at them.  My take is the the one that handles all the financial matters, and according to the Property Tax Lawsuit, that person is Danny Shelton.  I apologize to anyone who felt I was talking about Tammy or Bruce Chance being responsibility for 3ABN's defective Accounting Procedures.

If there comes a day I feel either Bruce Chance or Tammy Shelton-Chance are responsible for something wrong financially, on their own, I will speak their names very clearly and will not stutter.

I stand behind what I said and heard.   Now, I wonder if this amount just didn't get posted like that unposted Trust Fund issues in the amount of $2.43 found in the Property tax lawsuit, and the IRS 900 for that same year (2000-2001).

I would go to the website, but I am not about to joining any such web site.

You don't have to join to read the post and emailed answers at the link given... Nor does any other.

Plainly Mrs Shelton who you have been talking about and finding fault with for the way she and her husband do their jobs, has facts you don't have, and a different story than yours.

[Fran]

Sam;

I did go to your defend site.  I saved all the topics and all of the messages and will use them as further documentation of false accusations.  Were you afraid to cut and past the reply to you from Tammy Chance?  Were you afraid I was right?  I am going to reply to your post and email from Tammy Chance right in this very thread.  Then I am going to cut and paste the replies directly on yout defend site on yahoo.  You have made some seriously inacurate accusation of things that I did not say.  When I finish, please receive the message in love.  I was very disappointed in your relaying things I did not say.

However, I was flattered to see that the whole of your defend site is all about me.  That did make me laugh because I am nobody!  But since you addressed what you felt I said, I am going to need to respond.   I will do this bacause you are trying to misslead people with your posts.  I won't be too long.

I may take this chance to address Tammy Shelton-Chance up close and personal about her and my dealings with 3ABN eBay and her user ID 812worden and her store on eBay that closed down. Plus many other interesting facts.  I won't tell everything, but enough for you to have something to chew on for a while.  I tried to post earlier, but I couldn't.  But I will try again.

Never ever has there been a claim for 2.4 million or whatever it was she quoted. The quote was more than 1/2 million for approximately 4 years of work.  So Fran's claim of how donations have really "went down" was totally false.

If you can, go back to the last 2 Campmeeting videos or DVD’s, you will find that Danny did interview Tammy on the air.  Tammy did announce that since February, 3ABN had brought in $2.4 million in sales of good donated to 3ABN.  She said they had sold vehicles, Motor Homes … 


Then later they ran a full program with Bruce & Tammy, where they discouraged donors from sending 3ABN jewelry.  They explained that they could never get the value of the items.
My opinion says that if a $10,000 diamond is donated, and it only brings $2,500, that $2,500 is more than they had before the donation!  With the price of gold right now, I would take the gold jewelry also!


To solve this dilemma, I might ask that you ask Tammy about this.  She was the one on the stage, not Bruce.


I firmly state that this is a Fact.  Sales from donated items have gone down.  Tammy did not stumble when she said that amount was from February thru May, Campmeeting time.  She got great applause!  Danny was bragging about her doing so well in the sales department.  Yes, sales are down, and she did say $2.4 million. 


The reason I remember that figure is because in the 3ABN vs. the IL Property Tax Lawsuit and the 990’s brought out that  3ABN forgot to post $2.45+ Million dollars involving Trust Funds.  These amounts struck me as a coincidence.


I took that amount and took an average per month and then researched their sales from their feedback on eBay.  It had to be from sales from their other eBay sellers and the now Famous Barn Sales.


Do you by “Chance”, know the sales from the Barn Sale this year?


To Be Continued…

3.  For FRAN. 

Fran decided not to "horse around" and take your comments and speculations straight to the source...I sent them to 3abn attention Tammy Chance and got answers to all I ask. Or, should I say you ask?   Extremely eye opening when considering a lot of what you based your comments on was incorrect.
If you want to know what is truth then go to 3abndefended and you will get your answers and will understand how "off the track" someone can get when their premise is faulty.  Might not be posted yet as posts have to be approved but I'm sure it will be soon.

[Fran]

I feel this is very good.  We are getting somewhere.  I have been able to open up communication with Sam,  Ian and others.  Forums are for discussion and frankly, I am enjoying the new posts on that defend yahoo!  Pray that we can continue to communicate in truth and love.