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[Fran]

This is what our friend Lee posted on 3abndefended:

Posted by:  lee_0501 Sun Jun 1, 2008 12:05 pm


I'm surprised at the Advent Talk forum. Junebug spoke highly of the Ten Commandment week-end and they tore it all apart.

But I thought the meetings were fine. It was a surprise to see Elder Mike Tucker on the discussion panel. He is a good person. Of course not all on the panel would agree, (that is why there is a panel) but what I liked was the common ground they shared with these questions.

Of course Jim G. and Danny S. didn't talk very much simply because the panelists took over! I think if you lined up every SDA, you would get a different answer on that question about divorce and remarriage.

But how refreshing to know that the Panelists were Pastors, they wern't God. You know, they were human beings. Those are people who are born and die and who make mistakes. I thought they spoke up well and enjoyed it very much.

But then Mr. Pickle thought it "brazen" to have Danny Shelton and his sister Tammy on at the same time. I sure don't know what could be wrong with this. Because Mr. Pickle seems to imagine they have low morals (has he ever talked to them about this? Of course not) then how does he know what he "thinks" is true? He doesn't. He has absolutely NO proof of anything immoral by either person.

Be sure you read Ian's POWER over posts before you post on this site! read the last paragraph of Ian's rules.

Posted by:  synthian2   Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:02 pm  (Fran comment: synthian2 signed this post as Ian.}

... Posting here is a privilege and not a right, and any posts or replies you submit have to be approved before they can be viewed by the public as this group is moderated. (Paragraph 3)

... AS FORUM OWNER I ALSO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REMOVE POSTING PRIVILEGES, OR POSTS, FILES ETC WITHOUT NOTICE OR EXPLANATION AT ANY TIME IF I DEEM THAT NECESSARY.

[Bob Pickle]

Lee is not one to talk about morals, if Lee is the same Lee who over on BlackSDA tried to minimalize the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting.

And then when called on it, she refused to retract such a reprehensible and degraded suggestion.

It's so sick. Who would have ever dreamed that we'd have such in God's remnant, which is supposed to keep the commandments, now minimalize child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting?

[anyman]

Twisting others words out of recognition may work with the small group here, but won't work in court. You can interpret for your masses, and your word is the opiate for a very small mass, but the courts are going to see through you like two cent silk.

Lee is not one to talk about morals, if Lee is the same Lee who over on BlackSDA tried to minimalize the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting.

And then when called on it, she refused to retract such a reprehensible and degraded suggestion.

It's so sick. Who would have ever dreamed that we'd have such in God's remnant, which is supposed to keep the commandments, now minimalize child molestation allegations by suggesting that maybe the minor was consenting?

[Bob Pickle]

Obviously, you can't be talking about my comments regarding Lee's statement, since she really did suggest that the allegations against Tommy might not be so bad because the minor might have been consenting. And she really did refuse to retract such a reprehensible and degraded suggestion.

So which comments of mine were you instead referring to?

[Sam]

How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?

Ian
On this page alone, three different people have asked you to produce the evidence for your allegations that Danny and Co are all innocent and Linda alone is guilty of adultery.

Can you explain how you KNOW that Linda is guilty? Were you there? Did you sit on the Board that made the decision that Linda must attend counselling - as determined by certain people? Were you present at the Church Board Meeting that decided that her membership could not be transferred?

You've had a lot to say against Linda, but I haven't seen you offer one shred of evidence as yet. It might really help your credibility if you put your money where your mouth is (that is provide the evidence you've been asked for so many times).

I might ask you the same questions. Can you prove Linda wasn't guilty and Danny is of all he has been accused of? Can you provide one shred of evidence of your own?  Have you talked to Danny about any of it?

Let's use the same standards for everyone.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

YES, I HAVE...want to see all the e-mails? And then there are the Danny Responses that came from the Chairman...such rote stuff, but will be happy to share some jewels, with your permission.

And, you know what, I also have interviewed DOZENS of others, men and women, who have indeed spoken to Danny Lee Shelton, or had business dealings and it is just amazing just how many sour grapes a person of such HIGH INTEGRITY and an ANNOINTED ONE can generate is such a short little life!!! Will make a great book when this process is over!!! 

You, know, that is how you do anthologies...autobigraphers usually miss the rough edges, and self centered egotists have a tendency to explain away or ignore all those skeletons in the closets. We all know just how much fun digging for skeletons can be!!! Particularly when one has several closets full.

Any other questions, SAM???

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Bob Pickle]

Lee from BlackSDA.com:

Bob, you said out of the seven people supposedly molested by TS, one is under age over on Maritime. Did I understand you correctly?

If so, then six of the seven would be considered "consenting" adults. And perhaps even the one under age was consenting, who knows if any of this is true. I have my doubts not because you posted it or because Mr. Joy investigated this, but because none of the 7 prosecuted TS or took him to court. I would certainly suggest to them that they do so as soon as possible.

Perhaps even the one under age was consenting? Incredible, huh? Lee is definitely not an expert on morals.

[Sam]

YES, I HAVE...want to see all the e-mails? And then there are the Danny Responses that came from the Chairman...such rote stuff, but will be happy to share some jewels, with your permission.

And, you know what, I also have interviewed DOZENS of others, men and women, who have indeed spoken to Danny Lee Shelton, or had business dealings and it is just amazing just how many sour grapes a person of such HIGH INTEGRITY and an ANNOINTED ONE can generate is such a short little life!!! Will make a great book when this process is over!!! 

You, know, that is how you do anthologies...autobigraphers usually miss the rough edges, and self centered egotists have a tendency to explain away or ignore all those skeletons in the closets. We all know just how much fun digging for skeletons can be!!! Particularly when one has several closets full.

Any other questions, SAM???

Gailon Arthur Joy

Just as I thought. You have interviewed men and women that have had contact...yada yada...  that is called second hand information and heresay. You have not experienced anything yourself.  Anyone can spread anything that they have been told by others.  Case in point.  A woman that I know told me that she knows you. Not well but well enough to know that you are a trouble maker, you like to leave landlords in the lurch, and you are basically a con man.  Now just because she said it, does that make it true?  I can say it does because I trust this persons word but biblically I have no right to make these accusations public since I didn't see or experience any of the allegations for myself.  Even If I knew this was true from my own personal experience with you, my job would be to come to you face to face with my accusations, and not take it to the world.  What you have done is contact every Dick and Harry that you have been told had conflicts with Danny and/or 3abn and you have taken their stories without proof, and made them public.  How easy it is to get people to tell their one sided stories about someone that is their enemy.  I could do the same with you. Anyone could. Dig a little, find out people you have had conflicts with then call them up and ask them what they think about Gailon Joy and I will guarantee you, I would get a headful. Don't mean what they are saying is true but I would still hear plenty, guarantee it.  Some people just lie about their enemies. Other's are not lying but are telling their side from their perspective. But, we all know there is always another side that might change the whole picture of what you have been told.

Now you can give me one of your smart alec answers and argue all you want. But, you and I and God knows that every bit of what I have just said is the honest and logical truth.  It's just people's nature and how they are.  You choose to believe the bad, because you want to.  Haven't heard of you or Pickle calling one person that loves Danny/3abn and wants to tell you about all the good things that have been done or how fair they were treated or how they were given second and third chances when they messed up their job and on and on and on.  Weird how you just happen to miss hundreds of people that have nothing but good to say about Danny and 3abn all around.

[Johann]

How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?

Ian
On this page alone, three different people have asked you to produce the evidence for your allegations that Danny and Co are all innocent and Linda alone is guilty of adultery.

Can you explain how you KNOW that Linda is guilty? Were you there? Did you sit on the Board that made the decision that Linda must attend counselling - as determined by certain people? Were you present at the Church Board Meeting that decided that her membership could not be transferred?

You've had a lot to say against Linda, but I haven't seen you offer one shred of evidence as yet. It might really help your credibility if you put your money where your mouth is (that is provide the evidence you've been asked for so many times).

I might ask you the same questions. Can you prove Linda wasn't guilty and Danny is of all he has been accused of? Can you provide one shred of evidence of your own?  Have you talked to Danny about any of it?

Let's use the same standards for everyone.

I sure have talked a lot to Danny about this. And not only to him. Had meeting with a committee trying to solve the question at West Frankfurt. Phone calls, e-mail. Danny wrote me about 100 e-mails while this thing was going on. I tried to plead with him, but in vain. I'm glad you suggest we use the same standards for everyone. If we do, I know from my personal observations that Linda would soon be cleared of those accusations. So lets join hands and be fair and Christian about it.

[Bob Pickle]

Sam doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that many of us have gone directly to Danny and Walt and others to get their side of the story, and they have very effectively convinced us that their critics were correct.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

YES, I HAVE...want to see all the e-mails? And then there are the Danny Responses that came from the Chairman...such rote stuff, but will be happy to share some jewels, with your permission.

And, you know what, I also have interviewed DOZENS of others, men and women, who have indeed spoken to Danny Lee Shelton, or had business dealings and it is just amazing just how many sour grapes a person of such HIGH INTEGRITY and an ANNOINTED ONE can generate is such a short little life!!! Will make a great book when this process is over!!! 

You, know, that is how you do anthologies...autobigraphers usually miss the rough edges, and self centered egotists have a tendency to explain away or ignore all those skeletons in the closets. We all know just how much fun digging for skeletons can be!!! Particularly when one has several closets full.

Any other questions, SAM???

Gailon Arthur Joy

Just as I thought. You have interviewed men and women that have had contact...yada yada...  that is called second hand information and heresay.

Hey, SAM, people who actually spoke with the party is not Second Hand and do not qualify for "Hearsay" rule. And

You have not experienced anything yourself.  Anyone can spread anything that they have been told by others.  Case in point.  A woman that I know told me that she knows you. Not well but well enough to know that you are a trouble maker, you like to leave landlords in the lurch, and you are basically a con man.  Now just because she said it, does that make it true?  I can say it does because I trust this persons word but biblically I have no right to make these accusations public since I didn't see or experience any of the allegations for myself.  Even If I knew this was true from my own personal experience with you, my job would be to come to you face to face with my accusations, and not take it to the world.  What you have done is contact every Dick and Harry that you have been told had conflicts with Danny and/or 3abn and you have taken their stories without proof, and made them public.  How easy it is to get people to tell their one sided stories about someone that is their enemy.  I could do the same with you. Anyone could. Dig a little, find out people you have had conflicts with then call them up and ask them what they think about Gailon Joy and I will guarantee you, I would get a headful. Don't mean what they are saying is true but I would still hear plenty, guarantee it.  Some people just lie about their enemies. Other's are not lying but are telling their side from their perspective. But, we all know there is always another side that might change the whole picture of what you have been told.

And when does this other side actually show up with evidence in hand? Certainly not at trial if he cannot produce prior to the trial!!!

Now you can give me one of your smart alec answers and argue all you want. But, you and I and God knows that every bit of what I have just said is the honest and logical truth.  It's just people's nature and how they are.  You choose to believe the bad, because you want to.  Haven't heard of you or Pickle calling one person that loves Danny/3abn and wants to tell you about all the good things that have been done or how fair they were treated or how they were given second and third chances when they messed up their job and on and on and on.  Weird how you just happen to miss hundreds of people that have nothing but good to say about Danny and 3abn all around.

And so SAM, are you just hearsay or a party? If you are not a party, under your logic, just how would you know what the truth is??? I'll stick with the numbers, the witnesses and the documents. They will do all the speaking we need done.

And by the way, when did Linda Shelton get second and third chances? Had all these others, except the connected ones, used up their probations? Can't wait to hear about all these unqualified chances and the wonderful opportunities afforded these miscreants, without any conflicts that REQUIRED chances?

How do you explain Scott vs Tammy or Brad vs Tammy and the list can just go on? Better have some very good explanations why one must go while another stays and yada, yada, yada? Or was it all about the money and the connection??

And how will you explain all those true confessions made over the years regarding Tommy vs the boys and other issues?

Just can't wait for the saint to speak and try and pursuade a jury that he is what you claim he is, not with the documented story we have to tell.

Try again and by the way, where are those questions?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Donna]

Gailon,

It is not your court case against Danny and 3ABN. It is Danny and 3ABN’s court case against you and Bob Pickle. They will present the evidence of the charges brought against you and it will be up to you to defend yourselves.  You will need more than the numbers, the witnesses and the so called documentation that you think you have. You will need more than a fictional story that you have pieced together from bits gleaned here and there from disgruntled individuals. You need to prove that the accusations that you have publicly made and continue to make against Danny and 3ABN are true. If you cannot do that right now, before court time, it only shows that you did not have the proof to have even made the accusations in the first place. Who needs a jury when the wrong doers hang themselves before even going to court? 

Yes, Linda did have more than 2 or 3 chances and way beyond what most businesses would allow or give, but she did not avail herself to accept any of them.  I am sorry that you do not want to see that.

Very sincerely,

Donna 

[Bob Pickle]

Donna, I think you are mistaken.

Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.

For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.

Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?

[Cindy]

Donna, I think you are mistaken.

Besides being able to document that what we have said is true, we can also document that we had a reasonable basis for saying what we said. That goes to the question of whether we were reckless and knew that the statements were false.

For example, I explained in an interrogatory I think it was how I verified that the cash-receipt-for-donated-horse emails were not forged. Danny really did have around an extra $20,000 of cash donations reported on his 2003 tax return, which is what those emails said one would find.

Now how could reporting about the content of those emails be reckless after verifying their content like that?

Folks we can probably all agree that this is what Pickle thinks and believes, and one could argue with his opinions of himself and his conclusions obviously, but for what purpose?

We will all see in the future how the court views and Judges this.

[Sister]

Gailon,

It is not your court case against Danny and 3ABN. It is Danny and 3ABN’s court case against you and Bob Pickle. They will present the evidence of the charges brought against you and it will be up to you to defend yourselves.  You will need more than the numbers, the witnesses and the so called documentation that you think you have. You will need more than a fictional story that you have pieced together from bits gleaned here and there from disgruntled individuals. You need to prove that the accusations that you have publicly made and continue to make against Danny and 3ABN are true. If you cannot do that right now, before court time, it only shows that you did not have the proof to have even made the accusations in the first place. Who needs a jury when the wrong doers hang themselves before even going to court? 

Yes, Linda did have more than 2 or 3 chances and way beyond what most businesses would allow or give, but she did not avail herself to accept any of them.  I am sorry that you do not want to see that.

Very sincerely,

Donna 

Donna, why do you make the assumption that all the allegations against Danny Shelton are formed by fictional stories that have been pieced together from bits gleaned here and there from disgruntled individuals? Do you have first person experience with the operation of 3ABN and Danny Shelton? There are those here who do. Just because they have a negative report concerning the activities of Danny Shelton does not make them disgruntled individuals. You may not like the picture that is being revealed of the character of Danny Shelton behind the scenes, but to dismiss the testimony of those who have personally dealt with him by labeling them all as disgruntled individuals is naive at best. Seeing Danny at campmeeting or meeting him on tour is not the same as living in Thompsonville, working at 3ABN, being a member of the Thompsonville church or having almost daily contact with him. All of us have two sides, the public and the private. Hopefully, as Christians, the two should be close in nature. But that is not always the case. From my experience with Danny and the experience of many others, the two faces of Danny Shelton can be almost unrecognizable. Even for those of us that have experienced both it is difficult to reconcile the two as one individual.

Sister