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[Habanero]

Ian, do you know Linda?

Do you have personal knowledge of her morals?

Have your personally gone to her and asked any questions?

How about any of the others you have attacked on these sites? Have you personally gone to them and asked questions?

Or are you advising Inga to do the opposite of what you do?

Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there.

If nothing has changed, it is evident that the morals at 3ABN are very low! 

How is that evident to you Inga?

Do you personally know any of the people beiing maligned, or being accused/rebuked of sin?

Do you personally have knowledge of them and their morals?

Have you ever gone to any of them and asked any questions?

Have you personally sought out the facts of these situations or tried to determine what they are?

If not you are in grave danger my sister, and stand on VERY shaky ground. I say this in love and out of respect and concern, for I do, and have done so, and cannot agree with your judgment, and because of this know the Lord will not agree with what you claim is "evident", for HE is a righteous Judge, and is all about truth, grace and mercy.

It is a biblical fact that those who can not love others as he does, and who do not give mercy will recieve none, and as they judge, so they will be judged.

We all have a huge responsibility here, and will be held accountable for "every idle word"

[Cindy]

Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?

Certainly, but isn't love, mercy, and  the benefit of the doubt and proving all things and diligently seeking and establishing the facts before indicting, condemning or judging one of the brethren, what Christianity is all about?

It seems to me if the accusers and critics had evidence and proof as they are required as Christians to have in the Church, then when it comes to matters of the state, they would simply present it and vindicate their cause and agenda, and not make excuses that those being accused by them have not provided the evidence and proof to indict themselves.

For if those who are critics and accusers could prove all they say this lawsuit would be moot, and in truth be just as "frivolous" and "stupid" as they are desparatly, and repetatively trying to claim...

3ABN, although being constantly maligned are the only ones putting their money where their mouth is and saying "let's indeed prove all things, and put an end to this madness"

The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
And still Pickle and Joy claim they have not and are accusing them in a court of law of not presenting the evidence, and finding fault with them for not condemning themselves, and asking the court to compel them to provide support for their opinions, judgments and continually added accusations...

The condemnations come from Pickle, Joy and supporters defenders and shills...

Honest people understand that the burden of proof is theirs to make...

The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...

This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..

Wake up people!

[Johann]

What do those PACER documents say?

[Bob Pickle]

The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.

They either say nothing of the sort, or someone is lying.

Of the 12,000+ pages claimed to have already been given us, more than 11,416 pages are simply BlackSDA.com printouts and 849+ pages are but Save3ABN printouts. Much of the rest are documents that you can download off of Save-3ABN.com, like financial statements and 990's, or were used as exhibits by the plaintiffs already, or are publicly available articles by AToday. What's new? Next to nothing, after a wait of 8 months.

Where their recent filings say 2500 more pages have been given to us, I've only got 250, and they are nothing but Maritime printouts. Where it says about 200 pages of confidential stuff were given to us, 72 of that is a 3ABN publication that anyone can download off their website. Another 12 are public record in the property tax case.

So what in this mass of stuff vindicates 3ABN or Danny or proves us to be liars or wrong? I can't find a thing, but I did find stuff that is evidence that we were right all along.

[Habanero]

You mean like the people demanding that Linda confess and repent for what she didn't do? Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?

The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...

This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..

Wake up people!

[Cindy]

I don't know Habenero....

Were people demanding she repent of things she didn't do?

Was evidence presented against her she was not allowed to rebut or address, or made by anonymous or hidden accusers she couldn't face? was it never brought up by those who's duty it was to consider and weigh this and diligently seek out the truth?

The facts are; her church met in private as we are to do, her employer and board met in private as they by the laws of the land should, and only said what was kosher, and no more according to all the inquiries and questions asked of them, yet have been condemned for this ever since...

Wasn't she invited and welcome to attend and even asked to present her side, and even asked to present evidence or witnesses? I believe she was, but chose not to... Didn't even the controversial gag order supply a fair remedy and resolution process for any problems which she never availed herself of?

When ASI sought her side and any input, and said it necessary,did she give any except to say Joy represented her?

The letters from her board Chairman, her Pastor and ASI, all witness to the truth that she was given every opportunity...

Were you present or witness to all of this?

I don't think so...

So what basis do you have for your post here?

I would sincerely like to know.

You mean like the people demanding that Linda confess and repent for what she didn't do? Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?

The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...

This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..

Wake up people!

[Bob Pickle]

I think there is enough evidence out there, Ian, to demonstrate that you are wrong. Remember that the May 4, 2004, ultimatum would have prevented her from being able to share her side with the board. And Danny refused to allow her to share her side to defend herself at her church trial.

If anyone had treated you that way, it would have been wrong as well.

The gag order was unethical in that a 3ABN document prevented her from saying anything critical about her ex-husband in a church building. The only way that makes sense to me is if 3ABN is a Shelton family business.

[Habanero]

Were you present at all of this? I don't think so. Then what basis do you have for your post here? Just because her accusers say she is guilty doesn't mean that she is, anymore than Gailon and Bob just saying that anyone is guilty means that they are. Have you talked with Linda? Do you know her? Have you asked her the questions about the various things you have said about her?  Or are you simply making judgements based on talking only with her accusers - as you rebuke people for doing when they accuse 3ABN or Danny? I would sincerely like to know.

I don't know Habenero....

Were people demanding she repent of things she didn't do?

Was evidence presented against her she was not allowed to rebut or address, or made by anonymous or hidden accusers she couldn't face? was it never brought up by those who's duty it was to consider and weigh this and diligently seek out the truth?

The facts are; her church met in private as we are to do, her employer and board met in private as they by the laws of the land should, and only said what was kosher, and no more according to all the inquiries and questions asked of them, yet have been condemned for this ever since...

Wasn't she invited and welcome to attend and even asked to present her side, and even asked to present evidence or witnesses? I believe she was, but chose not to... Didn't even the controversial gag order supply a fair remedy and resolution process for any problems which she never availed herself of?

When ASI sought her side and any input, and said it necessary,did she give any except to say Joy represented her?

The letters from her board Chairman, her Pastor and ASI, all witness to the truth that she was given every opportunity...

Were you present or witness to all of this?

I don't think so...

So what basis do you have for your post here?

I would sincerely like to know.

You mean like the people demanding that Linda confess and repent for what she didn't do? Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?

The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...

This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..

Wake up people!

[Johann]

According to her confession Ian should be honest enough to answer Habanero's question. Wasn't she an eye witness to all of this?

[Habanero]

Those persistent rebukes carry no weight when the rebukor is doing what they are rebuking the rebukee for. Consistency can a good thing, but consistency in inconsistency is not.

According to her confession Ian should be honest enough to answer Habanero's question. Wasn't she an eye witness to all of this?

[Johann]

I do and have done so, and Inga's statement is correct.

FACT:

Bob Pickle knows none at 3ABN, ( nor do they know him except by the work he has engaged in against them) he was not involved nor witness to any of the hearsay he has reported, which he is being sued for, and has in fact never set foot at 3ABN.

Further-- He is asking 3ABN to provide evidence, so he can prove his claims against them in the lawsuit.

Why?

He is unable to do so based on what he has now, and as he is in error,will never be able to...

How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Folks, the morals at 3ABN are as high as always. Nothing has changed there.

If nothing has changed, it is evident that the morals at 3ABN are very low! 

How is that evident to you Inga?

Do you personally know any of the people beiing maligned, or being accused/rebuked of sin?

Do you personally have knowledge of them and their morals?

Have you ever gone to any of them and asked any questions?

Have you personally sought out the facts of these situations or tried to determine what they are?

If not you are in grave danger my sister, and stand on VERY shaky ground. I say this in love and out of respect and concern, for I do, and have done so, and cannot agree with your judgment, and because of this know the Lord will not agree with what you claim is "evident", for HE is a righteous Judge, and is all about truth, grace and mercy.

It is a biblical fact that those who can not love others as he does, and who do not give mercy will recieve none, and as they judge, so they will be judged.

We all have a huge responsibility here, and will be held accountable for "every idle word"

Now, Ian,

You have been quite a talker, but it is time to produce...role out the evidence. We have rolled plenty on the website and others. We have most logically spoken to some of the same people you have, including Danny Lee Shelton and dozens of people who Danny has spoken to.

Today received additional confirmation from a person who taped at 3ABN during the period specifically stating that Danny was clear that Linda did not commit adultery!!! Linda claims she did not commit adultery. I have never seen Danny specifically affirm that there was adultery. Thompson has made the innuendo but witness after witness is very clear...NO ADULTERY. SO, IAN, tell me who has the evidence of ADULTERY? Remember, they will have to prove their case as well...and where is the evidence?

In fact, Ian, it is you that is on unsound ground...you have cannot prove your case...and I look forward to your sitting in the pews behind us as we roll out the evidence. I remind you, we were preparing for an ecclesiatical process and would have been very convincing. Judgment Day is coming closer by the day. Bring your kleenex so you can contain the tears!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?

Certainly, but isn't love, mercy, and  the benefit of the doubt and proving all things and diligently seeking and establishing the facts before indicting, condemning or judging one of the brethren, what Christianity is all about?

It seems to me if the accusers and critics had evidence and proof as they are required as Christians to have in the Church, then when it comes to matters of the state, they would simply present it and vindicate their cause and agenda, and not make excuses that those being accused by them have not provided the evidence and proof to indict themselves.

For if those who are critics and accusers could prove all they say this lawsuit would be moot, and in truth be just as "frivolous" and "stupid" as they are desparatly, and repetatively trying to claim...

3ABN, although being constantly maligned are the only ones putting their money where their mouth is and saying "let's indeed prove all things, and put an end to this madness"

The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
And still Pickle and Joy claim they have not and are accusing them in a court of law of not presenting the evidence, and finding fault with them for not condemning themselves, and asking the court to compel them to provide support for their opinions, judgments and continually added accusations...

The condemnations come from Pickle, Joy and supporters defenders and shills...

Honest people understand that the burden of proof is theirs to make...

The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...

This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..

Wake up people!

And wait til you see the inventory of documents...most of which are documents we gave to them...the rest are document extracted from...Black SDA...not the least bit substantive, and little admissable evidence, unless you are coming to testify!!! Maybe you could get a few into the record for them. Best of luck... the fact is the motion to compel is still on and we will pursue the production of thousands of real documents, preferably right at 3ABN where we can be sure we get the whole picture.
Want to join us?

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Habanero]

Obtaining information in a lawsuit, isn't that what the discovery phase is all about?

Certainly, but isn't love, mercy, and  the benefit of the doubt and proving all things and diligently seeking and establishing the facts before indicting, condemning or judging one of the brethren, what Christianity is all about?

It seems to me if the accusers and critics had evidence and proof as they are required as Christians to have in the Church, then when it comes to matters of the state, they would simply present it and vindicate their cause and agenda, and not make excuses that those being accused by them have not provided the evidence and proof to indict themselves.

For if those who are critics and accusers could prove all they say this lawsuit would be moot, and in truth be just as "frivolous" and "stupid" as they are desparatly, and repetatively trying to claim...

3ABN, although being constantly maligned are the only ones putting their money where their mouth is and saying "let's indeed prove all things, and put an end to this madness"

The recent PACER documents more then adequately expalain and demonstrate that 3ABN has presented and submitted so much evidence and are working at submitting even more according to court rulings etc. Evidence which vindicates them.
And still Pickle and Joy claim they have not and are accusing them in a court of law of not presenting the evidence, and finding fault with them for not condemning themselves, and asking the court to compel them to provide support for their opinions, judgments and continually added accusations...

The condemnations come from Pickle, Joy and supporters defenders and shills...

Honest people understand that the burden of proof is theirs to make...

The innocent and falsely accused cannot possibly condemn themselves, no matter how much Pickle and Joy and co. claim they should and blame them and find fault with them for not doing so...

This goes against all common decency much less christian values, ethics and morality..

Wake up people!

And wait til you see the inventory of documents...most of which are documents we gave to them...the rest are document extracted from...Black SDA...not the least bit substantive, and little admissable evidence, unless you are coming to testify!!! Maybe you could get a few into the record for them. Best of luck... the fact is the motion to compel is still on and we will pursue the production of thousands of real documents, preferably right at 3ABN where we can be sure we get the whole picture.
Want to join us?

Gailon Arthur Joy

Mr. Joy, never mind. Ian and her type preach and pontificate behind the facade of rebukes that reflect their own actions. They rebuke people for not talking to and knowing all parties in an issue, listening to one side and making judgements based on that, stating things about matters that they were not involved in, and making statements of fact that are unfactual. Is she guilty of all of the above? How else can people who survive and thrive on falcity as their ego stand go on? They have to change the subject or try to attack the person who exposes them in order to try distracting from their exposure as purveyors of falcity. Watch that happen now.

[Ozzie]

How do you prove this to be true, Ian? You have so often asked for evidence. Where is yours?

Ian
On this page alone, three different people have asked you to produce the evidence for your allegations that Danny and Co are all innocent and Linda alone is guilty of adultery.

Can you explain how you KNOW that Linda is guilty? Were you there? Did you sit on the Board that made the decision that Linda must attend counselling - as determined by certain people? Were you present at the Church Board Meeting that decided that her membership could not be transferred?

You've had a lot to say against Linda, but I haven't seen you offer one shred of evidence as yet. It might really help your credibility if you put your money where your mouth is (that is provide the evidence you've been asked for so many times).