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[Bob Pickle]

The Pharisees strained their water for gnats but were eating camels. Such Pharisees are still around, it appears.

[GrandmaNettie]

The Pharisees strained their water for gnats but were eating camels. Such Pharisees are still around, it appears.

I agree, Bob... 

It would be interesting to hear your perspective of who you think the Pharisees are in this present scenerio. I have an inkling that it may differ from my own. 

Who were the Pharisees of old?

I remember the story of the supposed paragons of virtue... those who rigidly interpreted the law, who felt it permissable to set up a woman with one of their own so she would get caught in fornication, and then drag her into the temple courtyard to try to trap Jesus.  How many accusers were left after He began writing in the sand?

[Bob Pickle]

Folks who claim to be conservative or correct in their theology or lifestyle, but who excuse or justify the behavior of the Sheltons, that sounds Pharisaical to me.

[Cindy]

In my opinion the New Testament tends to show the eating of foods, and other things like that to to be unimportant as compared to how one treats others.

I agree, Habanero.  Mark 12:30, 31, NIV:

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

I agree also! but really, what professed Christian would disagree?  (even apart from SDAs) who would as a christian really deny this, or disagree?

I myself can't think of even one...

The truth is in how love is defined and demonstrated by God and in how we ourselves define that, and understand and follow and emulate that, or don't--  according to prayer, studying, knowledge and convictions, and our relationship with him.

Isn't this so?

These things either prove our faith and knowledge of God, or our lack of that?

Right?

We are known by our fruits-- to Him and to each other....
and we can recognize each other by our obedience, or recognize that others are not yet our brethren, or are refusing right now for whatever reason, or don't understand, or even never will agree or do so, by these same standards and principles??

But regardless of why, we are ALL known by our fruits (actions and words) It doesn'treally matter why, for our Creator has made all known, He leaves none in ignorance and gives all a choice. So, when it comes down to the end. There are only two groups.... Ane each have made a choice...

But how and by who?

I myself think that confusion and deception about all of this seems to rule in this world and especially in our church...as we want to define love according to our experiences, and our feelings and thoughts and self justifications, or accordig to the rationalizations and reasonings, and wisdom of this fallen world. The enemy leads and whispers  all of this to us, he doesn't care which ditch we fall in or which error or sin we embrace, he only seeks to destroy God via his professed followers. So we see what looks good and makes sense and justifies our reasoning, rather than the Lords will, ways, and character, and that is the way of this fallen world but that will never triumph.... Why? That is never the definition of truth.

The Lord alone IS. Jesus Christ alone is the way, the truth and the light.
We either achknoldge, accept and reflect that same light or we represent, and reflect lies.

For He alone is the definition of truth... Only God ~IS~ love.

So really what is the true definition of love? And what does the bible, God's inspired word to us, reveal and  say about how to tell if we know if we truly love God or others, or to test ourselves, or how to examine ourselves, and which way to walk in faith and in love?

That seems to me to be VERY important.

[Cindy]

Folks who claim to be conservative or correct in their theology or lifestyle, but who excuse or justify the behavior of the Sheltons, that sounds Pharisaical to me.

IOW: Bob Pickle means and is saying that so called "conservatives" who are correct in their theology, but disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments of the Sheltons or who question, or think that  these things he accuses the Sheltons of lack proof, are pharisees???

[Snoopy]

ADMIN HAT ON

IAN, I THINK YOU ARE PUSHING IT WHEN YOU BEGIN SPEAKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

ADMIN HAT OFF

IOW: Bob means that those who disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments , are pharisees?

[Cindy]

ADMIN HAT ON

IAN, I THINK YOU ARE PUSHING IT WHEN YOU BEGIN SPEAKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

ADMIN HAT OFF

IOW: Bob means that those who disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments , are pharisees?

Really? I do not believe I violated one forum rule.

 I was asking a question, and was speaking for myself to other people, and  not for other people...

I understand you disagree, but  it seems to me by donning your "admin Hat" here, that you are pushing your personal point of view and bias and limitting free discussion and points of view in this forum.

 Are you acting like you are enforcing a forum rule just because you don't agree with what I said, Snoopy?

But- do what you feel you must and let your "consensus of staff" decide what is happening here for themselves, and announce it.

If I'm banned, so be it, but let all the readers and members see and decide for themselves why that is so.. and how this forum works.

[Bob Pickle]

IOW: Bob Pickle means and is saying that so called "conservatives" who are correct in their theology, but disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments of the Sheltons and who question, or think that  these things he accuses the Sheltons of lack proof, are pharisees???

No. I think I was plain enough. Those conservatives who prize correct theology and lifestyle habits, and yet who think that questioning Danny's fibbing under oath, or his covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy, are  fighting against the Holy Spirit, I would say that they have been affected by Phariseeism.

If you want to see someone put it in those terms, suggesting that I am fighting against the Holy Spirit, go to http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99247#Post99247.

And I am a conservative who prizes correct theology and lifestyle habits, who loves evangelism, and who has advertised 3ABN on billboards!

[Cindy]

IOW: Bob Pickle means and is saying that so called "conservatives" who are correct in their theology, but disagree with his accusations, opinions and judgments of the Sheltons and who question, or think that  these things he accuses the Sheltons of lack proof, are pharisees???

No. I think I was plain enough. Those conservatives who prize correct theology and lifestyle habits, and yet who think that questioning Danny's fibbing under oath, or his covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy, are  fighting against the Holy Spirit, I would say that they have been affected by Phariseeism.

If you want to see someone put it in those terms, suggesting that I am fighting against the Holy Spirit, go to http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=99247#Post99247.

And I am a conservative who prizes correct theology and lifestyle habits, who loves evangelism, and who has advertised 3ABN on billboards!

Dear Readers,

I am not impressed by Mr Pickle's personal accolades anymore than I am of any others.... and I hope you are not either.

 All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such,  has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.

I will be more impressed IF Mr Pickle can prove the allegations of child molestation  against Tommy Shelton are true and that Danny Shelton, and 3ABN willfully, and in full knowledge of such, covered those allegations, and the evidence and proof of child molestation up, and endangered children as he has repetatively claimed.

His condemnations of others in this regard, mean nothing if he cannot do so...

And until such is done, it is my opinion ALL should reserve judgment.

[Snoopy]

Yes, REALLY.  And, no, my personal opinions and views and bias do not rule this forum.  I gave you my personal opinion as the 3ABN subforum moderator because I was asked to be here to moderate.  In case you missed it, this forum is for RESPECTFULLY discussing issues, and I didn't feel you were being respectful.  If you don't like it, then I guess you'll have to take it up with Daryl as it is his forum, and if he doesn't like my moderator opinions then he can discuss it with me.

It was my personal opinion that when you begin a statement with "Bob means that..." then you are trying to impose your words into his mouth.  That's all.  Take it for what it is worth.

And, let's go over this one more time.  When you hit the "Report to Moderator" button, a complaint is filed and is then discussed amongst all the moderators to determine its resolution.  In this case, I was simply letting you know, from a moderator perspective, that I don't think you were being respectful.

Really? because I was asking a question, and was speaking for myself, not other people.

DO  YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS AND VIEWS AND BIAS RULE THIS FORUM?

It seems you are pushing your personal point of view and bias and limitting free discussion and points of view by donning a administrators hat and acting like you are enforcing a forum rule, Snoopy

Do what you feel you must and let your "consensus of staff" decide what is happening here for themselves, and announce it.

If I'm banned, so be it, but let all the readers and members see and decide for themselves why that is so.. and how this forum works.

[Cindy]

Yes, REALLY.  And, no, my personal opinions and views and bias do not rule this forum.  I gave you my personal opinion as the 3ABN subforum moderator because I was asked to be here to moderate.  In case you missed it, this forum is for RESPECTFULLY discussing issues, and I didn't feel you were being respectful.  If you don't like it, then I guess you'll have to take it up with Daryl as it is his forum, and if he doesn't like my moderator opinions then he can discuss it with me.

It was my personal opinion that when you begin a statement with "Bob means that..." then you are trying to impose your words into his mouth.  That's all.  Take it for what it is worth.

And, let's go over this one more time.  When you hit the "Report to Moderator" button, a complaint is filed and is then discussed amongst all the moderators to determine its resolution.  In this case, I was simply letting you know, from a moderator perspective, that I don't think you were being respectful.

Maybe I just have a different perspective...

It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.

In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?

Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me. 

[Bob Pickle]

All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such,  has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.

So if you state that you prize love, you have proven that you don't by so stating? No, the same principle does not hold here because your analogy makes no sense.

I will be more impressed IF Mr Pickle can prove the allegations of child molestation  against Tommy Shelton are true ...

And why should I have to prove that the allegations are true in order to prove that there are allegations? That makes no sense either.

... and that Danny Shelton, and 3ABN willfully, and in full knowledge of such, covered those allegations, and the evidence and proof of child molestation up, and endangered children as he has repetatively claimed.

I have already demonstrated that Danny Shelton knew about the allegations and that he did cover up those allegations, have I not?

[Cindy]

All should realize a Minister standing up to preach on humbleness who states "I am so humble", and gives himself as an example of such,  has proved he is not by his own words... That same principle holds true here.

So if you state that you prize love, you have proven that you don't by so stating? No, the same principle does not hold here because your analogy makes no sense.

"and why should I have to prove that the allegations are true in order to prove that there are allegations? That makes no sense either.
I have already demonstrated that .... knew about the allegations and that he did cover up those allegations, have I not?"

Hmmm...

 does this make sense?

Pickle is ALSO accused in a court of law of defamation of character, and certainly knows about it, but is pretending he's not guilty..

Pickle is therefore guilty of false witness and character assasination, and needs to repent, and all should keep talking about himand putting him down and digging up all the dirt they can find on him and all associated with him.
 until he repents, and does what we demand of him???




Will Pickle, or any of you ever get the point?

[Snoopy]

Ian,

If you have a problem with enforcement of the forum rules, why not handle it according to forum guidelines rather than making generalizations and nasty comments?

I have already explained to you why I said what I said, yet you continue to force the issue.

I am not sure how much more clear I can make myself.  And, other readers don't appear to be having trouble understanding.  From the tone of your recent posts, I sense you are getting quite frustrated.  Perhaps you might consider taking a time out...??

Snoopy

Maybe I just have a different perspective...

It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.

In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?

Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me. 

[Cindy]

Snoopy,

I have zero, nada, zilch, zip issues with the forum rules, and haven't ever brought that up. The truth is you had an issue, and disagreement with me due to my post to Bob, and chose to make that issue known as an administrator, (while not citing any violation of rules) rather than as a individual poster.

I'm sorry, but due to that I have to submit that the problem may be yours rather than mine.

You IMHO need to think.

Ian,

If you have a problem with enforcement of the forum rules, why not handle it according to forum guidelines rather than making generalizations and nasty comments?

I have already explained to you why I said what I said, yet you continue to force the issue.

I am not sure how much more clear I can make myself.  And, other readers don't appear to be having trouble understanding.  From the tone of your recent posts, I sense you are getting quite frustrated.  Perhaps you might consider taking a time out...??

Snoopy

Maybe I just have a different perspective...

It kinda looks like your are replying to me filing a complaint. To clarify, I didn't file a complaint/report, and don't really see the need to.

In addition I am of the opinion that moderators should enforce the forum rules impartially and without bias, irregardless of their personal opinion or views or agreement or disagreement with the views posted, as the rules have to do with behaviors and not with the personal opinions or views of others, but maybe you view it differently?

Clarifying this would probably help other posters and readers as well as me.