Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Bob Pickle]

What you dont seem to realize is that none of this brings glory to God, the way everyone has acted is like what you see in a daytime soap opera.

I'm sorry. I don't buy your apparent premise that John the Baptist was wrong for rebuking sin, that Elijah was wrong for rebuking sin, etc., etc., and that they were really just angry, hurt, and arrogant.

[reddogs]

What you dont seem to realize is that none of this brings glory to God, the way everyone has acted is like what you see in a daytime soap opera.

I'm sorry. I don't buy your apparent premise that John the Baptist was wrong for rebuking sin, that Elijah was wrong for rebuking sin, etc., etc., and that they were really just angry, hurt, and arrogant.

Rebuking sin is one thing my brother, but what you are doing is venting in public for the lack of a better word not rebuking, and it is affecting you as it is plainly affecting others. If it was those who had rejected God and His love like the Pharisees or wicked that you were speaking of that is one thing, but you are talking about a brother and sister which have been snared by sin in one shape or another and we must try to help both. If they do not accept a righteous rebuke, then we must address that. But always keep love in your heart for a brother or sister as they are still within the reach of God.....

Your brother in Christ
Red

[bonnie]

Again, can you tell me where the charge of blasphemy comes from

[Cindy]

What you dont seem to realize is that none of this brings glory to God, the way everyone has acted is like what you see in a daytime soap opera.

I'm sorry. I don't buy your apparent premise that John the Baptist was wrong for rebuking sin, that Elijah was wrong for rebuking sin, etc., etc., and that they were really just angry, hurt, and arrogant.

This is the problem. Mixing and confusion. And putting words into the mouths of others, and attacking them for what you say they say..

Rebuking sin or reproving error, and gossip and talebearing ( which is called evil speaking) are not the same thing! One when done in love is righteous, the other is NOT.

Yes we are to reprove error, and rebuke sin, yes we are to get rid of sin in the camp, BUT ONLY AS DEFINED IN THE WORD OF GOD, according to clearly defined steps and principles!


To do what is forbidden (Talebearing) and call it rebuking sin; or publish things to the world, and enemies of our faith, and call it taking it to the Church, or getting rid of sin in the camp. is deception plain and simple.

It seems to me there is a defensiveness here in arguing against the plain and simple bible texts and spirit of prophecy quotes, or there is a look they did it but not me attitude and finger pointing.

Folks, we can't justify ourselves. The end doesn't justify the means.
We are going to be judged by our own words and actions.

Now either they represent our faith or they do not, but in my opinion we all need to examine ourselves in this regard and stop pointing fingers at each other or attempting to justify ourselves.

Only Christ can do that.

All should be able to easily say as Daryl did:

Question:  Should Christians gossip and pass on hear-say?

Answer in a nutshell: No.

End of story?  probably not...

[reddogs]

Question:  Should Christians gossip and pass on hear-say?

Answer in a nutshell: No.

Daryl,

It seems so simple, and yet emotions have been stirred that allows this evil into many hearts and almost force good Christians to do it....

Red

[reddogs]

What you dont seem to realize is that none of this brings glory to God, the way everyone has acted is like what you see in a daytime soap opera.

I'm sorry. I don't buy your apparent premise that John the Baptist was wrong for rebuking sin, that Elijah was wrong for rebuking sin, etc., etc., and that they were really just angry, hurt, and arrogant.

This is the problem. Mixing and confusion. And putting words into the mouths of others, and attacking them for what you say they say..

Rebuking sin or reproving error, and gossip and talebearing ( which is called evil speaking) are not the same thing! One when done in love is righteous, the other is NOT.

Yes we are to reprove error, and rebuke sin, yes we are to get rid of sin in the camp, BUT ONLY AS DEFINED IN THE WORD OF GOD, according to clearly defined steps and principles!


To do what is forbidden (Talebearing) and call it rebuking sin; or publish things to the world, and enemies of our faith, and call it taking it to the Church, or getting rid of sin in the camp. is deception plain and simple.

It seems to me there is a defensiveness here in arguing against the plain and simple bible texts and spirit of prophecy quotes, or there is a look they did it but not me attitude and finger pointing.

Folks, we can't justify ourselves. The end doesn't justify the means.
We are going to be judged by our own words and actions.

Now either they represent our faith or they do not, but in my opinion we all need to examine ourselves in this regard and stop pointing fingers at each other or attempting to justify ourselves.

Only Christ can do that.

All should be able to easily say as Daryl did:

Question:  Should Christians gossip and pass on hear-say?

Answer in a nutshell: No.

End of story?  probably not...

You hit the nail squarely on the head my sister.......

[Bob Pickle]

If it was those who had rejected God and His love like the Pharisees or wicked that you were speaking of that is one thing, ...

Let me ask you, at what point is that what we are talking about? Danny writes a book promoting the 10 Commandments while breaking the 9th and covering up allegations of breaking the 7th. A lot of Christians would liken him to the Pharisees on that one.

... but you are talking about a brother and sister which have been snared by sin in one shape or another and we must try to help both.

What sister are you referring to?

[Bob Pickle]

This is the problem. Mixing and confusion. And putting words into the mouths of others, and attacking them for what you say they say..

...

To do what is forbidden (Talebearing) and call it rebuking sin; or publish things to the world, and enemies of our faith, and call it taking it to the Church, or getting rid of sin in the camp. is deception plain and simple.

So when John the Baptist called that generation a generation of vipers in a public meeting with Gentiles present, and when Elijah prayed that it would not rain, that wasn't publishing it to the world?

And how was that putting any words into reddogs mouth? Has he expressed any outrage at all for Danny Shelton's covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton? Has he expressed any outrage over 3ABN filing a lawsuit in retaliation for blowing the whistle, instead of meeting with us as we requested in order to shar4e mutual concerns?

Now if he does not express outrage at any of that but instead expresses outrage against speaking out against such things, and attributes such speaking out to anger, hurt, and arrogance, does that not leave the impression that he may also have a problem with the biblical accounts of the extremely public rebukes of John the Baptist and Elijah?

[Bob Pickle]

Just to make it crystal clear to all, Danny Shelton sued us in federal court. He opted out of a more private process of an ASI tribunal. He dragged all the issues outlined in his lawsuit into the very public sphere of a federal court which thus involves judges and juries who are not members of our faith.

Notice carefully that Ian and reddogs have yet to express a negative opinion about Danny thus publishing all this garbage before the world.

Of course, it can be said that Danny tried to seal the case and thus make it private. But that isn't how the court system works, and one would think he and his lawyers would have known that.

[reddogs]

This is the problem. Mixing and confusion. And putting words into the mouths of others, and attacking them for what you say they say..

...

To do what is forbidden (Talebearing) and call it rebuking sin; or publish things to the world, and enemies of our faith, and call it taking it to the Church, or getting rid of sin in the camp. is deception plain and simple.

So when John the Baptist called that generation a generation of vipers in a public meeting with Gentiles present, and when Elijah prayed that it would not rain, that wasn't publishing it to the world?

And how was that putting any words into reddogs mouth? Has he expressed any outrage at all for Danny Shelton's covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton? Has he expressed any outrage over 3ABN filing a lawsuit in retaliation for blowing the whistle, instead of meeting with us as we requested in order to shar4e mutual concerns?

Now if he does not express outrage at any of that but instead expresses outrage against speaking out against such things, and attributes such speaking out to anger, hurt, and arrogance, does that not leave the impression that he may also have a problem with the biblical accounts of the extremely public rebukes of John the Baptist and Elijah?

If Danny has turned from God and reject His Spirit and become like the Pharisees full of wickedness, and the Spirit tells you this, then declare it against him. But somehow I dont think that is the case here.......

[reddogs]

Just to make it crystal clear to all, Danny Shelton sued us in federal court. He opted out of a more private process of an ASI tribunal. He dragged all the issues outlined in his lawsuit into the very public sphere of a federal court which thus involves judges and juries who are not members of our faith.

Notice carefully that Ian and reddogs have yet to express a negative opinion about Danny thus publishing all this garbage before the world.

Of course, it can be said that Danny tried to seal the case and thus make it private. But that isn't how the court system works, and one would think he and his lawyers would have known that.

As I said I dont know the man, but I know what it is to have the love of God in your heart, and what is being posted in lurid detail seems to fall very short of that.....

[Cindy]

This is the problem. Mixing and confusion. And putting words into the mouths of others, and attacking them for what you say they say..

...

To do what is forbidden (Talebearing) and call it rebuking sin; or publish things to the world, and enemies of our faith, and call it taking it to the Church, or getting rid of sin in the camp. is deception plain and simple.

So when John the Baptist called that generation a generation of vipers in a public meeting with Gentiles present, and when Elijah prayed that it would not rain, that wasn't publishing it to the world?

And how was that putting any words into reddogs mouth? Has he expressed any outrage at all for Danny Shelton's covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton? Has he expressed any outrage over 3ABN filing a lawsuit in retaliation for blowing the whistle, instead of meeting with us as we requested in order to shar4e mutual concerns?

Now if he does not express outrage at any of that but instead expresses outrage against speaking out against such things, and attributes such speaking out to anger, hurt, and arrogance, does that not leave the impression that he may also have a problem with the biblical accounts of the extremely public rebukes of John the Baptist and Elijah?

Folks, what is plain to me is that Mr Pickle believes he is rebuking sin and reproving error in a righteous manner,  and yet does not accept rebuke or reproof from another, and will not hear it, but only keeps casting blame on others while justifying his own words and actions.

This is the part where you leave them to God... as it's not on our hands or heads, but on his own.

[reddogs]

This is the problem. Mixing and confusion. And putting words into the mouths of others, and attacking them for what you say they say..

...

To do what is forbidden (Talebearing) and call it rebuking sin; or publish things to the world, and enemies of our faith, and call it taking it to the Church, or getting rid of sin in the camp. is deception plain and simple.

So when John the Baptist called that generation a generation of vipers in a public meeting with Gentiles present, and when Elijah prayed that it would not rain, that wasn't publishing it to the world?

And how was that putting any words into reddogs mouth? Has he expressed any outrage at all for Danny Shelton's covering up of the child molestation allegations against Tommy Shelton? Has he expressed any outrage over 3ABN filing a lawsuit in retaliation for blowing the whistle, instead of meeting with us as we requested in order to shar4e mutual concerns?

Now if he does not express outrage at any of that but instead expresses outrage against speaking out against such things, and attributes such speaking out to anger, hurt, and arrogance, does that not leave the impression that he may also have a problem with the biblical accounts of the extremely public rebukes of John the Baptist and Elijah?

Folks, what is plain to me is that Mr Pickle believes he is rebuking sin and reproving error in a righteous manner,  and yet does not accept rebuke or reproof from another, and will not hear it, but only keeps casting blame on others.

This is the part where you leave them to God... as it's not on our hands or heads, but on his own.

If Danny is quilty, then God will judge, our job according to scripture is to bring it to the brother so that he may turn from his sin and have life....

1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

[bonnie]

Folks, what is plain to me is that Mr Pickle believes he is rebuking sin and reproving error in a righteous manner,  and yet does not accept rebuke or reproof from another, and will not hear it, but only keeps casting blame on others.

This is the part where you leave them to God... as it's not on our hands or heads, but on his own.

When do we get to the point that you take seriously, for yourself in rebuking sin and reproving error, that you leave it to God?

If Danny is quilty, then God will judge, our job according to scripture is to bring it to the brother so that he may turn from his sin and have life....

1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I am sure most here remember the PTL mess and those that were for so long willing to leave it to God. Perhaps if James baker had true friends surrounding him in his endeavors, he would not have had the humiliating experience of free bed and board, compliments of MN.

His problems if I recall were allegations of sexual misconduct and misappropriating money given to PTL for specific reasons.

Think it can't happen to SDA's, think again. And that makes this everyone's business. IRS criminal investigations are not started on a whim or an anonymous complaint. By the time this officially begins, the IRS has something they can sink their teeth into.

It would be nice to see all financial records and money accounted for. 3ABN in the clear because of their willingness to be completely transparent as to what has occurred with money of others. What a refreshing change and what it could say about SDA's to have that knowledge. Instead, it is quite the opposite and doesn't appear a whole lot different than other org as this that have fallen amid public humiliation and ridicule




Most of this was in DS's hands to resolve quickly and in a transparent manner. Confidentiality is not a luxury or right that those that receive money from others or by solicitaion /donation have .

Those records should be readily available, regardless. All questions as to ethical standards should be apparant within those records and cause no reason to fear.
HIs lifestyle should reflect his stated salary. I don't care what the salary is as long as it is stated upfront in the records and he is within those means.

I do not donate to them or any org like this. I am not independently wealthy and need to achieve the most out of what I can do. That would not be watching untold thousands being spent trying to keep from producing records of financial activity.

[Bob Pickle]

If Danny is quilty, then God will judge, our job according to scripture is to bring it to the brother so that he may turn from his sin and have life....

You just don't seem to get it. Danny filed suit in U.S. District Court, and his attorney got the judge to tell me that I can't bring anything to him anymore.

Danny made this super public by allowing Alyssa to be called a liar on a 3ABN broadcast, and by hosting a special tribute to his alleged pedophile brother, which, in the face of new allegations, was about as brazen as one can get.

Danny made it public.

Danny made it public.

He dared make it public to my neighbors using a network that is supposed to present the Adventist message in a positive way.

I'm still waiting to hear your outrage at his extreme lack of discretion.