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[Johann]

Mr. Anyman, wouldn't you be more Christ-like if you read what Bob wrote before attacking him?

[anyman]

Bob Pickle said - - - I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up.

so what, some one called you and said that the mayor down there might not like 3ABN and you just picked up the phone and called him and said Hey I don't like 3ABn have they done anything to you that you didn't like? And he shared that story with you, about a letter and someone banging on his house? Did he agree to give a signed affidavit to you so you can use it? maybe I 'll give him a call and see if he will tell me the same thing.

[anyman]

Johann said, Mr. Anyman, wouldn't you be more Christ-like if you read what Bob wrote before attacking him?

whose attacking, Mr. Johann? I was just asking questions - want to get some answers. This Bob Pickle says he has all this evidence or at least that is what I have read here and at that web site he runs. I think he needs to stop taunting us with stuff and if he really knows something to say so, if he doesn't then he shouldn't say anything. makes sense doesn't it? As for Christ-like, it seems like that went out the window a long time ago.

Didn't he just finishing telling us that cause he thinks that 3ABN did things the wrong way that he is going to? I think he blamed them for everything and said if they would just stop picking on him then he would go back to doing God's work.

Bob Pickle said - - - And I would be much happier spending my time doing those kind of things than taking hours to write motions to compel, causing further embarrassment to those I would much rather wish Godspeed.

Tell you what, contact Danny and tell him he really needs to drop this stupid lawsuit. Thenwe can all go back to doing what really needs to be done.
 
And while you are at it, tell him to get over whatever is keeping him from doing the right thing and resigning. When people get caught doing what he has done, they don't stick around. They resign.

[Bob Pickle]

so what, some one called you and said that the mayor down there might not like 3ABN ....

To tell you the truth, Danny "told" me about the mayor. At least, that's what I recall.

And I believe you got that wrong. From what I could tell, he likes 3ABN.

That's the way rumors and gossip get started. People assume this or that instead of sticking with what was said.

[anyman]

Bob pickle said this: To tell you the truth, Danny "told" me about the mayor. At least, that's what I recall.

And I believe you got that wrong. From what I could tell, he likes 3ABN.

That's the way rumors and gossip get started. People assume this or that instead of sticking with what was said.

There you go again dancing around the mulberry bush. Just say what you mean. Danny "told" you? How did you tell you. It looks more like he didn't when you write like that looks like youre just speaking out of school. Did he tell you on the phone, in an email or a letter or a fax? See it just seems like ya'll are hiding something or being dishonest.

Now how could I get something wrong you didn't say a word about? Where did you say he liked 3ABN? I didn't see you say that. As far as rumors go I am guessing you have been passing along a few and I would sure like it if you would just stick to some facts and stuff that is hard and fast tied to some real evidence. I think that guy reddog is on to something where your story telling is concerned.

Here is what I am thinking might help some. You didn't say anything about what this letter the mayor supposed got said. That might help it all make some more sense. Otherwise it just seems like a lot of hot air.

[Habanero]

Bob, I think Anyman is making a good point that has legal precedance. It could be a good idea to have supporting evidence for statements made. Did the appeals court in the IL property tax case have something to say about that? Did they say something about Insufficient supporting evidence for the statements made by Danny, and did they say something about the weight and credibility of his testimony being a factor in 3ABN's loss of the case? As Anyman says, supporting evidence is always a good thing to consider. But then that all just personal opinion as I am not a lawyer or expert of any kind in these matters.

Quote Bob Pickle: "I hadn't heard it before either till recently."

That is a response?

There is no corroboration via a web site or a document? Nothing other than you saying something happened? Come on, isn't there a story here, other than your saying something happened? A signed affidavit, an email, a phone call that can be transcribed - maybe posted as an audio file?

Where did you hear about it? Did you talk to the mayor? A police chief? Someone with some sort of validity had to give it to you, right? Did you talk to anyone directly involved, a first person source? There has to be something there that made you feel comfortable enough to throw it out for public discussion, you wouldn't have just tossed out a third or fourth person comment, that would be too dangerous - wouldn't it?

[Bob Pickle]

Habanero, yes, the appellate court said something like that.

But it was in the administrative hearing that Danny spoke about the mayor, from what I recall.

[Cindy]

Habanero, yes, the appellate court said something like that.

But it was in the administrative hearing that Danny spoke about the mayor, from what I recall.

Was Bob at that administrative hearing with Danny?

To tell you the truth, Danny "told" me about the mayor. At least, that's what I recall.

 

Questions I still have, based on this:

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

1. The mayor said Mike Riva sent him a "nasty letter" or Bob says that?

2. Where is this letter, and why isn't it posted as verification of what he is claiming?

3. Where is the documentation of the Mayor saying that someone banged on his door every night and woke him up, and did he say this was related to a letter from Riva, or blame 3ABN? Where is the verification of this?

4. Did the Mayor say he was scared out of his wits, or that 3abn was using intimidation tactics, or is Bob saying that?

5. Bob's blaming Danny Shelton, but shouldn't it actually be up to the police to investigate something like this?
   a. was a complaint made to either DS or the police? b. if not, why? if so, what were their conclusions/findings?

6. Is the former Mayor of Thompsonville going to confirm all this?

7. What is Elder Gilley actually supposed to reprove or reproach or discipline Mike Riva for, based on this kinda unsupported junk?

Jim Gilley really ought to order Riva to issue a prompt apology, if Riva wants to do any more legal work for 3ABN...

[GrandmaNettie]

Bob, could I get just a bit of clarification about the former mayor of Thompsonville story? I'm bolding some specific words in several of your quotes

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

You were questioned by anyman - btw, welcome anyman - and you carefully drew attention to the source of your story about the former mayor:

Please note again what I said:

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up.

Then,  under further questioning, you  say:

To tell you the truth, Danny "told" me about the mayor. At least, that's what I recall.

And I believe you got that wrong. From what I could tell, he likes 3ABN.

That's the way rumors and gossip get started. People assume this or that instead of sticking with what was said.

So now you have made it sound like Danny "told" you the story about the mayor.  Was he the source of your story or did you also personally speak to the former mayor of Thompsonville?

Your next statement further confuses the issue for me:

Habanero, yes, the appellate court said something like that.

But it was in the administrative hearing that Danny spoke about the mayor, from what I recall.

So, does this mean that you read Danny's testimony from the administrative hearing and he told the story about Mike Riva sending a letter to the former mayor of Thompsonville?

Did the former mayor of Thompsonville actually tell you this story personally, as you stated at least twice or did you "speak" to him via recorded testimony?  I really would like to clearly understand this matter.

IMO, facts can be much more effective if initially stated in a straightforward manner.  The evidence can create a far more powerful witness if it doesn't appear manipulated or contrived.

[Cindy]

Should Christians gossip and pass on hear-say?


Gossip and hear-say are on the same level as God-haters and the faithless to say nothing of the other things that it is compared to that Paul goes over.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:28-32

2 Corinthians 12:20
For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.

1 Timothy 5:13
Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.

Proverbs 26:20
Without wood a fire goes out; without gossip a quarrel dies down.

So what is the opposite of these things that we should be doing, well Paul says it at the begining of Romans 1:

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. 7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. Romans 1:1-12

I think that is something to think about, to mutually encourage each other is what we should be doing, not looking at each others weak points and seeing how to tear each other down....

Thank you  

Here is more on the topic of how to deal with sin and error, and how not to... (ie: gossip or talebearing)

Ye shall... neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD... in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour....Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:11-18

Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.

King David had it right:

"Thy glory, O Israel, is slain upon thy high places!
How are the mighty fallen!
Tell it not in Gath,
Publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon;
Lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
Lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph."

So did Ellen White:

"...Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed. "

Brother F has had the cause of God at heart, but he has felt too deeply, and has taken on many burdens which he should not have borne. He has suffered in health in this way. He has sometimes viewed matters in a strong light, and has been too earnest and anxious to have all see them just as he did; and because they were backward in doing so, he has felt nearly crushed. He feels to the depths, and is in danger of urging his views of things too strongly.

     Sister F wants to be a Christian, but she has not cultivated discretion and true courtesy. She is of a very sanguine turn of mind, ardent and self-confident. She shows the rough part of her character, and has not appeared to advantage. She has moved from impulse, acting just as she felt, and sometimes her feelings have been much excited and strong. She has strong likes and dislikes, and has permitted this unfortunate trait in her character to develop itself, greatly to the detriment of her own spiritual advancement and to the injury of the church. She has talked too much and unwisely, just as she felt. This has had a strong influence upon her husband, and has at times led him to move from excitement of feeling, when if he had waited and looked at matters calmly and weighed them properly, it would have been better for himself and for the church. Nothing is gained by moving hurriedly, moving from impulse, or from strong feeling.

     Sister F moves from impulse, and finds fault, and has had too much to say against her brethren and sisters. This will cause confusion in any church. If she could control her own spirit, a great victory would be gained. If she would seek the heavenly adorning, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, calls of great price, she would then be a real help to the church. If she would cherish the spirit of Christ, and become a peacemaker, her own soul would flourish, and she would be a blessing to the church wherever she might be located. Unless she is converted and an entire change is wrought in her, unless she educates herself to be slow to speak and slow to wrath, and cultivates true Christian courtesy, her influence will prove injurious, and the happiness of others connected with her will suffer. She manifests an independence which is a damage to her and alienates her friends. This independence has caused her much trouble and has wounded her best friends.

     If those who had means were close in their deal with her husband, and did not favor him more than worldlings in business transactions, she has felt and talked, and aroused feelings of dissatisfaction where none previously existed. This is a selfish world at best. Many of those who profess the truth are not sanctified by it, and may not have a heart to make even a trifling variation in the prices of produce when dealing with a poor brother, sooner than they would with an able worldling. They do not love their neighbors as themselves. It would be more pleasing to God were there less selfishness and more disinterested benevolence.

     As Sister F has seen a selfish spirit manifest in deal, she has committed a greater sin by feeling and talking in regard to the matter as she has. She has erred in expecting too much. The tongue has been truly an unruly member, a world of iniquity, set on fire of hell, untamed and untamable. Sister F has had a spirit of retaliation, manifesting by her deportment that she was offended. This was all wrong. She has cherished bitter feelings, which are foreign to the spirit of Christ. Anger, resentment, and all kinds of unkind tempers are indulged by speaking against those with whom we are displeased, and by reciting the errors and failings and sins of neighbors. The lustful desires are gratified.

     Sister F, if you are grieved because your neighbors or friends are doing wrong to their own hurt, if they are overtaken in fault, follow the Bible rule. "Tell him his fault between thee and him alone." As you go to the one you suppose to be in error, see that you speak in a meek and lowly spirit; for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. The erring can be restored in no other way than in the spirit of meekness, gentleness, and tender love. Be careful in your manner. Avoid anything in look or gesture, word or tone, that savors of pride or self-sufficiency. Guard yourself against a word or look that would exalt yourself, or place your goodness and righteousness in contrast with their failings. Beware of the most distant approach to disdain, overbearing, or contempt. With care avoid every appearance of anger; and though you use plainness of speech, let there be no reproach, no railing accusation, no token of warmth but that of earnest love. Above all, let there be no shadow of hate or ill will, no bitterness or sourness of expression. Nothing but kindness and gentleness can flow from a heart of love. Yet all these precious fruits need not hinder you from speaking in the most serious, solemn manner, as though angels were directing their eyes upon you, and you were acting in reference to the coming judgment. Bear in mind that the success of reproof depends greatly upon the spirit in which it is given. Do not neglect earnest prayer that you may possess a lowly mind, and that angels of God may go before you to work upon the hearts you are trying to reach, and so soften them by heavenly impressions that your efforts may avail. If any good is accomplished, take no credit to yourself. God alone should be exalted. God alone has done it all.

     You have excused yourself for speaking evil of your brother or sister or neighbor to others before going to him and taking the steps which God has absolutely commanded. You say: "Why, I did not speak to anyone until I was so burdened that I could not refrain." What burdened you? Was it not a plain neglect of your own duty, of a thus saith the Lord? You were under the guilt of sin because you did not go and tell the offender his fault between you and him alone. If you did not do this, if you disobeyed God, how could you be otherwise than burdened unless your heart was hardened while you were trampling the command of God underfoot, and in your heart hating your brother or neighbor? And what way have you found to unburden yourself? God reproves you for a sin of omission in not telling your brother his fault, and you excuse and comfort yourself by a sin of commission by telling your brother's faults to another person! Is this the right way to purchase ease--by committing sin?

     All your efforts to save the erring may be unavailing. They may repay you evil for good. They may be enraged rather than convinced. What if they hear to no good purpose, and pursue the evil course they have begun? This will frequently occur. Sometimes the mildest and tenderest reproof will have no good effect. In that case the blessing you wanted another to receive by pursuing a course of righteousness, ceasing to do evil and learning to do well, will return into your own bosom. If the erring persist in sin, treat them kindly, and leave them with your heavenly Father. You have delivered your soul; their sin no longer rests upon you; you are not now partaker of their sin. But if they perish, their blood is upon their own head.

     Dear friend, an entire transformation must take place in you, or you will be weighed in the balance and found wanting. The church at -----, especially talking women, have a lesson to learn. "If any man [or woman] among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain." Many will be weighed in the balance and found wanting in this matter of so great importance. Where are the Christians who walk by this rule? who will take God's part against the evilspeaker? who will please God, and set a watch, a continual watch, before the mouth, and keep the door of the lips? Speak evil of no man. Hear evil of no man. If there be no hearers, there will be no speakers of evil. If anyone speaks evil in your presence, check him. Refuse to hear him, though his manner be ever so soft and his accents mild. He may profess attachment, and yet throw out covert hints and stab the character in the dark.

     Resolutely refuse to hear, though the whisperer complains of being burdened till he speak. Burdened indeed! with a cursed secret which separateth very friends. Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed.

     Those who are preparing for the coming of Christ should be sober and watch unto prayer, for our adversary, the devil, goeth about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour; whom we are to resist steadfast in the faith. "He that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open unto their prayers. 

Sabbath Blessings..

[reddogs]

Should Christians gossip and pass on hear-say?


Gossip and hear-say are on the same level as God-haters and the faithless to say nothing of the other things that it is compared to that Paul goes over.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:28-32

2 Corinthians 12:20
For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.

1 Timothy 5:13
Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.

Proverbs 26:20
Without wood a fire goes out; without gossip a quarrel dies down.

So what is the opposite of these things that we should be doing, well Paul says it at the begining of Romans 1:

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. 7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. Romans 1:1-12

I think that is something to think about, to mutually encourage each other is what we should be doing, not looking at each others weak points and seeing how to tear each other down....

Thank you  

Here is more on the topic of how to deal with sin and error, and how not to...

Ye shall... neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD... in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour....Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:11-18

Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.

King David had it right:

"Thy glory, O Israel, is slain upon thy high places!
How are the mighty fallen!
Tell it not in Gath,
Publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon;
Lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
Lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph."

So did Ellen White:

"...Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed. "

Brother F has had the cause of God at heart, but he has felt too deeply, and has taken on many burdens which he should not have borne. He has suffered in health in this way. He has sometimes viewed matters in a strong light, and has been too earnest and anxious to have all see them just as he did; and because they were backward in doing so, he has felt nearly crushed. He feels to the depths, and is in danger of urging his views of things too strongly.

     Sister F wants to be a Christian, but she has not cultivated discretion and true courtesy. She is of a very sanguine turn of mind, ardent and self-confident. She shows the rough part of her character, and has not appeared to advantage. She has moved from impulse, acting just as she felt, and sometimes her feelings have been much excited and strong. She has strong likes and dislikes, and has permitted this unfortunate trait in her character to develop itself, greatly to the detriment of her own spiritual advancement and to the injury of the church. She has talked too much and unwisely, just as she felt. This has had a strong influence upon her husband, and has at times led him to move from excitement of feeling, when if he had waited and looked at matters calmly and weighed them properly, it would have been better for himself and for the church. Nothing is gained by moving hurriedly, moving from impulse, or from strong feeling.

     Sister F moves from impulse, and finds fault, and has had too much to say against her brethren and sisters. This will cause confusion in any church. If she could control her own spirit, a great victory would be gained. If she would seek the heavenly adorning, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, calls of great price, she would then be a real help to the church. If she would cherish the spirit of Christ, and become a peacemaker, her own soul would flourish, and she would be a blessing to the church wherever she might be located. Unless she is converted and an entire change is wrought in her, unless she educates herself to be slow to speak and slow to wrath, and cultivates true Christian courtesy, her influence will prove injurious, and the happiness of others connected with her will suffer. She manifests an independence which is a damage to her and alienates her friends. This independence has caused her much trouble and has wounded her best friends.

     If those who had means were close in their deal with her husband, and did not favor him more than worldlings in business transactions, she has felt and talked, and aroused feelings of dissatisfaction where none previously existed. This is a selfish world at best. Many of those who profess the truth are not sanctified by it, and may not have a heart to make even a trifling variation in the prices of produce when dealing with a poor brother, sooner than they would with an able worldling. They do not love their neighbors as themselves. It would be more pleasing to God were there less selfishness and more disinterested benevolence.

     As Sister F has seen a selfish spirit manifest in deal, she has committed a greater sin by feeling and talking in regard to the matter as she has. She has erred in expecting too much. The tongue has been truly an unruly member, a world of iniquity, set on fire of hell, untamed and untamable. Sister F has had a spirit of retaliation, manifesting by her deportment that she was offended. This was all wrong. She has cherished bitter feelings, which are foreign to the spirit of Christ. Anger, resentment, and all kinds of unkind tempers are indulged by speaking against those with whom we are displeased, and by reciting the errors and failings and sins of neighbors. The lustful desires are gratified.

     Sister F, if you are grieved because your neighbors or friends are doing wrong to their own hurt, if they are overtaken in fault, follow the Bible rule. "Tell him his fault between thee and him alone." As you go to the one you suppose to be in error, see that you speak in a meek and lowly spirit; for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. The erring can be restored in no other way than in the spirit of meekness, gentleness, and tender love. Be careful in your manner. Avoid anything in look or gesture, word or tone, that savors of pride or self-sufficiency. Guard yourself against a word or look that would exalt yourself, or place your goodness and righteousness in contrast with their failings. Beware of the most distant approach to disdain, overbearing, or contempt. With care avoid every appearance of anger; and though you use plainness of speech, let there be no reproach, no railing accusation, no token of warmth but that of earnest love. Above all, let there be no shadow of hate or ill will, no bitterness or sourness of expression. Nothing but kindness and gentleness can flow from a heart of love. Yet all these precious fruits need not hinder you from speaking in the most serious, solemn manner, as though angels were directing their eyes upon you, and you were acting in reference to the coming judgment. Bear in mind that the success of reproof depends greatly upon the spirit in which it is given. Do not neglect earnest prayer that you may possess a lowly mind, and that angels of God may go before you to work upon the hearts you are trying to reach, and so soften them by heavenly impressions that your efforts may avail. If any good is accomplished, take no credit to yourself. God alone should be exalted. God alone has done it all.

     You have excused yourself for speaking evil of your brother or sister or neighbor to others before going to him and taking the steps which God has absolutely commanded. You say: "Why, I did not speak to anyone until I was so burdened that I could not refrain." What burdened you? Was it not a plain neglect of your own duty, of a thus saith the Lord? You were under the guilt of sin because you did not go and tell the offender his fault between you and him alone. If you did not do this, if you disobeyed God, how could you be otherwise than burdened unless your heart was hardened while you were trampling the command of God underfoot, and in your heart hating your brother or neighbor? And what way have you found to unburden yourself? God reproves you for a sin of omission in not telling your brother his fault, and you excuse and comfort yourself by a sin of commission by telling your brother's faults to another person! Is this the right way to purchase ease--by committing sin?

     All your efforts to save the erring may be unavailing. They may repay you evil for good. They may be enraged rather than convinced. What if they hear to no good purpose, and pursue the evil course they have begun? This will frequently occur. Sometimes the mildest and tenderest reproof will have no good effect. In that case the blessing you wanted another to receive by pursuing a course of righteousness, ceasing to do evil and learning to do well, will return into your own bosom. If the erring persist in sin, treat them kindly, and leave them with your heavenly Father. You have delivered your soul; their sin no longer rests upon you; you are not now partaker of their sin. But if they perish, their blood is upon their own head.

     Dear friend, an entire transformation must take place in you, or you will be weighed in the balance and found wanting. The church at -----, especially talking women, have a lesson to learn. "If any man [or woman] among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain." Many will be weighed in the balance and found wanting in this matter of so great importance. Where are the Christians who walk by this rule? who will take God's part against the evilspeaker? who will please God, and set a watch, a continual watch, before the mouth, and keep the door of the lips? Speak evil of no man. Hear evil of no man. If there be no hearers, there will be no speakers of evil. If anyone speaks evil in your presence, check him. Refuse to hear him, though his manner be ever so soft and his accents mild. He may profess attachment, and yet throw out covert hints and stab the character in the dark.

     Resolutely refuse to hear, though the whisperer complains of being burdened till he speak. Burdened indeed! with a cursed secret which separateth very friends. Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed.

     Those who are preparing for the coming of Christ should be sober and watch unto prayer, for our adversary, the devil, goeth about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour; whom we are to resist steadfast in the faith. "He that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open unto their prayers. 

Sabbath Blessings..

Amen, my brother...

That is what we need to pray that we understand, and that Christ's love clear out all of this hate, anger and feelings of revenge.......Its not what Christians should be doing, to say nothing of Adventist brothers and sisters..........

[Cindy]

Amen, my brother...

That is what we need to pray that we understand, and that Christ's love clear out all of this hate, anger and feelings of revenge.......Its not what Christians should be doing, to say nothing of Adventist brothers and sisters..........

No problem, I didn't write it I just quoted it, God's truth and principles remain constant, it's our own decision how we choose to deal with it.

IMO We need to keep reminding ourselves of these things, and "pray without ceasing" it's far too easy to go astray, or lose sight of the Lord, and which way we're trying to go, and who and what we are following when we don't.

Your Sister 

Ian

[bonnie]

Ian and reddogs,

I was wondering if you would mind explaining further here and in following posts, why you quoted the portions you did and what they mean to you in a practical sense. Practical as in how it should be applied in your daily life as it seems to indicate you have a strong feeling how it should apply to the daily life of others.
At the end of the day, where the counsels of EW stops with her message, harm is continuing, then what? Please don't requote EW. Just tell me what actions if anything apply in your opinion, based on what you have quoted. Many people hide behind scripture and EW with incomplete statements. Statements that end with what you should do,but mute on what happens next after all has failed. Just what it means to you please.


That is what we need to pray that we understand, and that Christ's love clear out all of this hate, anger and feelings of revenge.......Its not what Christians should be doing, to say nothing of Adventist brothers and sisters..........

You keep bringing in hate. Can you tell me which party you feel you have the right to judge motives for? Do you determine hate by actions of some to prevent further damage?
When biblical instruction has failed to stop further harm, do you leave it alone?  Knowing as you do so the problem not only continues but grows because of the power those that are committing the wrong gain?

You have spent some time chastising others. Quoting and repeating "do not be accuser's of the brethren" write sins quietly in the sand"etc. You have made your feelings quite clear. In the case of IAN, unquestioning support for DS.
I have yet to see you respond to the direct question and statement concerning DS public worldwide humiliation of his ex-wife. Do you consider that a violation of your personal beliefs ? Have you stated that as forcefully and publically as you have your opinion on those here you keep coming back to (to educate)?

[bonnie]

Ye shall... neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD... in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour....Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:11-18

Generally passages as this are posted in response as it is seen  applying to one or more you are interacting with.

Who has dealt falsely in your opinion. Who has expressed hate, except for those like yourself, accusing others of hate? Is an interest and concern in stopping any harmful practise(harmful to others) to be seen as grudge or avenge

What then do we do with the lawsuit against Bob Pickle and Gailion Joy?  No excuses as they needed to defend themselves as that is not what you are posting.  Bob Pickle and Gailion Joy are responsible and accountable for their own actions. No matter what they have done, their actions will have to stand the test. On the flip side,DS/3ABN actions will have to stand the test. DS and any involved are accountable and responsible for their actions. Do you hold them to the same standards publically, that you are holding advent talk members? If so, where can I read it



 If it is hateful and spiteful for some to feel certain issues must be dealt with, it would appear to me that DS /3ABN would be in that same camp. As an attempt to deal with what they claimed was wrong, they began a lawsuit,publically humiliated Linda with pretty shaky proof if that is what they called it. Haven't I seen reddogs repeat the "forgive 7X70"?
You have expressed your concern over the unbiblical behavior of those here. Is there somewhere I can go that you express this same conviction concerning DS and 3ABN. A conviction is not a convenience, or at least shouldn't be. It is something held no matter which side of the issue you are on.

[bonnie]

Resolutely refuse to hear, though the whisperer complains of being burdened till he speak.


This is one of the most interesting sentence you have posted. What is it you are doing here? By your participation you have been instrumental in keeping at least the information given here alive. Are you resolutely trying to hear, or resolutely refusing to hear.





 Burdened indeed! with a cursed secret which separateth very friends. Go, burdened ones, and free yourselves from your burden in God's appointed way. First go tell your brother his fault between you and him alone. If this fail, next take with you one or two friends, and tell him in their presence. If these steps fail, then tell it to the church. Not an unbeliever is to be made acquainted with the slightest particular of the matter. Telling it to the church is the last step to be taken. Publish it not to the enemies of our faith. They have no right to the knowledge of church matters, lest the weakness and errors of Christ's followers be exposed.

Here is where I would really like a personal answer. Your thoughts, not biblical quotes, as to what should happen when it fails. Leave it or pursue it.
I read this as the church will/should handle it as last resort. Does this always happen?

Whether it be DS or any  wrong doing "alleged or otherwise". Should we leave harmful acts to continue to prevent exposing the church? Most of us realize serious wrong doing will be exposed, sooner or later. The most harmful of the two is later because of the proportions it has grown to.
Is it more shameful for the church to step up to the plate, say we acknowledge the problem,we are actively working to prevent future occurrences, or to be found later to have hidden,denied, blamed others,and only when forced acknowledge by "Gee, we are sorry, we didn't know"?

Did EW mean in your opinion to stop action at the leadership door, or is it implied that the church, responsible to it's members will take care of it.

When the church turns a blind eye to fraud, sexual abuse,theft,etc are we to do same?