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[reddogs]

That is what this 3ABN issue reminds me of, the sensationalism of the National Enquirer, the impact is marginal as hardly anybody in the SDA churches in our area brings it up or cares for its details. There seems to be some Adventist who seem to think this is the most important issue that needs to be dealt with and seem fixated with it, and let me say I think our time and effort would be better spent helping to build more churches, helping those who want to attend a Adventist Christian school and need financial help, helping those members losing their homes, their jobs and other more urgent needs that do good for our brothers and sisters, not waste time doing no good for anyone.....

Still avoiding?  Why are your reading the equivalent of the National Enquirer?

On one point we do agree. Hardly anyone cares. No one really cares about the great damage done concerning many issues that impact our denomination negatively.

Helping and doing as per your suggestions is great. But when you drag the garbage behind you, all you do is infect those you are trying to help and bring in

Why not look to do good, find where you can help, see what is needed by those losing their homes or job, share love instead of anger and hate....those are the principles Christ teaches, not casting stones on those who fall into Satans snares..........

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

[Bob Pickle]

If that is your job or position or position to oversee 3ABN, then that is fine.

Walt Thompson, chairman of the 3ABN Board, asked me to verify the info he gave me. John Lomacang asked for those who had questions to call him. John Lomacang told me that I could see the phone card phone records if I wanted to.

Now Danny Shelton in blatant violation of the Bible and SoP has sued me, making all kinds of outlandish allegations in a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court. It is my job and position, given to me by Danny Shelton himself, to defend myself and prove his allegations false and the allegations against him true, in the public arena.

But these are not things that are thrown out for any person on the street to go over, that is not the Christ like manner that personal issues need to be dealt with, do you want all your secret sins bared before others that dont really care about you.

Mat. 18 dictates that if they do not respond, it is to be taken to the church. In some situations it needs to be reported to law enforcement.

And remember, we aren't talking about secret sins. Danny's divorcing Linda in Guam is not a secret. Tommy's alleged molesting of boys is not a secret. I dare say, since I'm told that the employees at the time were talking about it amongst themselves, that Tammy Chance's alleged affair with her cousin was not a secret either.

Its not for us to drag a brother or sister out to be ridiculed and judged, we should only try to help a brother or sister that has fallen into sin as Christ made very clear when He helped the woman caught in adultery, and did not condemn but told her 'Go and sin no more'.......

We need to follow Christs example and instead of finding reasons to condemn, help a brother or sister who have fallen into the abyss of sin and find a way back to Christ......

Didn't I try to do that, and Danny spurned my effort?

John 8
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

   But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

 9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

 11"No one, sir," she said.
      "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

And how does that apply? Let us not take this to extremes. Are we to believe that no parent can discipline their children unless they are without sin? That no teacher can reprimand, no judge hand down a sentence, no cop arrest, unless they are without sin?

Clearly, that story is about upholding law and justice. A lady allured into sin was to be stoned for adultery, while those who allured her were not? That would be in violation of the law that said that both the man and the woman were to be condemned.

Jesus was not contradicting the counsel He gave in Mat. 18, when He said that the church could judge the unrepentant.

[Bob Pickle]

There seems to be some Adventist who seem to think this is the most important issue that needs to be dealt with and seem fixated with it, and let me say I think our time and effort would be better spent helping to build more churches, helping those who want to attend a Adventist Christian school and need financial help, helping those members losing their homes, their jobs and other more urgent needs that do good for our brothers and sisters, not waste time doing no good for anyone.....

And I would be much happier spending my time doing those kind of things than taking hours to write motions to compel, causing further embarrassment to those I would much rather wish Godspeed.

Tell you what, contact Danny and tell him he really needs to drop this stupid lawsuit. Then we can all go back to doing what really needs to be done.

And while you are at it, tell him to get over whatever is keeping him from doing the right thing and resigning. When people get caught doing what he has done, they don't stick around. They resign.

[reddogs]

You seem to be one who has been given some oversight, then proceed my brother.... But lets do it without publicly humiliating and trying the case in the open forums, gather the materials, evidence, etc.. and take to the level its resting at and present it. But to put a personal issue out in the streets and have every type of comment and hearsay grow out of it, is not correct and scripture is clear on the steps, and we must be careful not to let personal feelings pull us into even greater harm. I dont know Danny or Linda, and from what has been posted it is hard to feel any desire to know either of them or about Adventism and its truths, and that is the harm and evil that is now happening as we ourselves make it worse, I think that is what people outside the Adventist church are seeing and thinking.

If that is your job or position or position to oversee 3ABN, then that is fine.

Walt Thompson, chairman of the 3ABN Board, asked me to verify the info he gave me. John Lomacang asked for those who had questions to call him. John Lomacang told me that I could see the phone card phone records if I wanted to.

Now Danny Shelton in blatant violation of the Bible and SoP has sued me, making all kinds of outlandish allegations in a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court. It is my job and position, given to me by Danny Shelton himself, to defend myself and prove his allegations false and the allegations against him true, in the public arena.

But these are not things that are thrown out for any person on the street to go over, that is not the Christ like manner that personal issues need to be dealt with, do you want all your secret sins bared before others that dont really care about you.

Mat. 18 dictates that if they do not respond, it is to be taken to the church. In some situations it needs to be reported to law enforcement.

And remember, we aren't talking about secret sins. Danny's divorcing Linda in Guam is not a secret. Tommy's alleged molesting of boys is not a secret. I dare say, since I'm told that the employees at the time were talking about it amongst themselves, that Tammy Chance's alleged affair with her cousin was not a secret either.

Its not for us to drag a brother or sister out to be ridiculed and judged, we should only try to help a brother or sister that has fallen into sin as Christ made very clear when He helped the woman caught in adultery, and did not condemn but told her 'Go and sin no more'.......

We need to follow Christs example and instead of finding reasons to condemn, help a brother or sister who have fallen into the abyss of sin and find a way back to Christ......

Didn't I try to do that, and Danny spurned my effort?

John 8
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

   But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

 9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

 11"No one, sir," she said.
      "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

And how does that apply? Let us not take this to extremes. Are we to believe that no parent can discipline their children unless they are without sin? That no teacher can reprimand, no judge hand down a sentence, no cop arrest, unless they are without sin?

Clearly, that story is about upholding law and justice. A lady allured into sin was to be stoned for adultery, while those who allured her were not? That would be in violation of the law that said that both the man and the woman were to be condemned.

Jesus was not contradicting the counsel He gave in Mat. 18, when He said that the church could judge the unrepentant.

[Artiste]

Reddogs:

Thank you for all your directives toward various persons on this forum (sarcasm intended).

Now perhaps it would be good for you to go out and help build churches, as you suggested.

(Clearly you have not suffered at the hands of 3ABN.)

[Bob Pickle]

And reddogs, let us recall a little bit of the past. In early July 2006, Alyssa Moore issued a signed, confidential statement alleging that Danny Shelton had sexually assaulted her. On August 10, 2006, Danny orchestrated a globally televised TV broadcast in which they said Danny was being lied about and persecuted, but they weren't going to defend themselves. Then Danny allowed Shelley Quinn to insinuate on that broadcast that Alyssa was a liar, and he did not rebuke her for it or edit that part out before it was rebroadcast.

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

Also recall how Mike Riva sent a nasty letter to Glenn Dryden in 2003, threatening that non-Adventist pastor simply because he was concerned about allegations of child molestation. The legal basis in the letter? Even if the actions did occur, the statute of limitations had run out, so shut up or we'll sue. What do you think of that reasoning?

Then the man had the audacity to write another nasty letter over the same subject less than three years letter to the members of the board of trustees of the Community Church of God, on behalf of 3ABN as well as Tommy, threatening to sue every last one of them. What does Riva think about the condemnations of the Word of God against moral impurity? And about Jesus' warning, "What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

Jim Gilley really ought to order Riva to issue a prompt apology, if Riva wants to do any more legal work for 3ABN. If Riva is a Bible-believing and Bible-following Christian, he shouldn't have any problem at all apologizing to Dryden and his church for trying to threaten them into silence over their concerns about child molestation allegations. Those who seek to follow in the footsteps of Jesus do apologize.

They also don't act like the priest and Levite and pass by on the other side when someone falls among thieves. They act like the Samaritan and get involved and help the mistreated and downtrodden, even if it means their loss.

[anyman]

What is this comment all about? Never heard of this before.


I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

[reddogs]

Reddogs:

Thank you for all your directives toward various persons on this forum (sarcasm intended).

Now perhaps it would be good for you to go out and help build churches, as you suggested.

(Clearly you have not suffered at the hands of 3ABN.)

I am helping with 3 churches....

Striking back at those who made you suffer solves nothing, and just pulls you into hate and anger, and that is not from Christ....

 John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

[reddogs]

Bob,

I hate to say it, but you seem fixated on this issue, and you yourself have been harm. It doesnt have winners, everyone comes out damaged, there is nothing good that is served by the lurid details....You have to let it go and with much prayer allow Christ's love to wipe this out of your heart...

Your brother in Christ
Red

And reddogs, let us recall a little bit of the past. In early July 2006, Alyssa Moore issued a signed, confidential statement alleging that Danny Shelton had sexually assaulted her. On August 10, 2006, Danny orchestrated a globally televised TV broadcast in which they said Danny was being lied about and persecuted, but they weren't going to defend themselves. Then Danny allowed Shelley Quinn to insinuate on that broadcast that Alyssa was a liar, and he did not rebuke her for it or edit that part out before it was rebroadcast.

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

Also recall how Mike Riva sent a nasty letter to Glenn Dryden in 2003, threatening that non-Adventist pastor simply because he was concerned about allegations of child molestation. The legal basis in the letter? Even if the actions did occur, the statute of limitations had run out, so shut up or we'll sue. What do you think of that reasoning?

Then the man had the audacity to write another nasty letter over the same subject less than three years letter to the members of the board of trustees of the Community Church of God, on behalf of 3ABN as well as Tommy, threatening to sue every last one of them. What does Riva think about the condemnations of the Word of God against moral impurity? And about Jesus' warning, "What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

Jim Gilley really ought to order Riva to issue a prompt apology, if Riva wants to do any more legal work for 3ABN. If Riva is a Bible-believing and Bible-following Christian, he shouldn't have any problem at all apologizing to Dryden and his church for trying to threaten them into silence over their concerns about child molestation allegations. Those who seek to follow in the footsteps of Jesus do apologize.

They also don't act like the priest and Levite and pass by on the other side when someone falls among thieves. They act like the Samaritan and get involved and help the mistreated and downtrodden, even if it means their loss.

[bonnie]

I hate to say it, but you seem fixated on this issue. It doesnt have winners, everyone comes out damaged, there is nothing good that is served by the lurid details....all I can give you is what Christ said and did when He came across such sin....


I am not attempting to be sarcastic or offensive,but reddogs you puzzle me.  To use your words, you seem fixated on this issue.  Why aren't you setting the example
of writing the sins of Bob Pickle quietly in the sand,or even more appropriate, remembering you could be viewed as having sinned, yet willing to cast the stone.
I am not in any way suggesting you leave or should not have acess here, but there are forums that suit your train of
thought. Not subjecting you to gossip you claim to abhore. In fact, 3ABN is only discussed in the most positive and complimentary light. Unless of course when the subject is introduced as an opportunity to ridicule and not so quietly write the sins "of those others" on another forum in the sand





But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."....

This and all related texts are used frequently by other forums and can go for days discussing the many ways and actions to forgive.
It covers any and all sins and none must be addressed.
Except for sins of those that may feel some things are worth fighting for and those that are considered disloyal SDA's because they cannot or will not turn their backs on abuse of any kind.

I would think it would be a perfect match for you. There is no sin that should be exposed

[Bob Pickle]

Bob,

I hate to say it, but you seem fixated on this issue, and you yourself have been harm. It doesnt have winners, everyone comes out damaged, there is nothing good that is served by the lurid details....You have to let it go and with much prayer allow Christ's love to wipe this out of your heart...

Your brother in Christ
Red

I'll say it again: Until 3ABN and Danny Shelton drop their stupid, frivolous lawsuit which assaults the Adventist values of freedom of speech, freedom or religion, and freedom of press, there is no possible way to "let it go."

Furthermore, true love does not overlook grievous sin which, if left undealt with, will cause the loss of the blessing of God upon His people.

Or do you think that child molestation is no big deal, and that God is so loving and kind, He will continue to bless a ministry that covers up such allegations, and sues those who refuse to cooperate with their schemes?

[Bob Pickle]

What is this comment all about? Never heard of this before.


I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

I hadn't heard it before either till recently.

[Bob Pickle]

8 • Is Church Discipline Still Needed?
Can we protect the church's good name and still reflect Christ's character of acceptance and compassion?

I really appreciated this article. As someone who has pastored ten churches and served as an elder at at least three more, I've seen both extremes, the extreme referred to in this article and the extreme where the erring are being treated harshly.

May the Lord give us true balance.

[anyman]

Quote Bob Pickle: "I hadn't heard it before either till recently."

That is a response?

There is no corroboration via a web site or a document? Nothing other than you saying something happened? Come on, isn't there a story here, other than your saying something happened? A signed affidavit, an email, a phone call that can be transcribed - maybe posted as an audio file?

Where did you hear about it? Did you talk to the mayor? A police chief? Someone with some sort of validity had to give it to you, right? Did you talk to anyone directly involved, a first person source? There has to be something there that made you feel comfortable enough to throw it out for public discussion, you wouldn't have just tossed out a third or fourth person comment, that would be too dangerous - wouldn't it?

[Bob Pickle]

There is no corroboration via a web site or a document?

Which point did you want corroboration for?

Did you talk to the mayor?

Please note again what I said:

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up.