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[bonnie]

 . "If any man [or woman] among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain".

I am sure in your mind this has application for those on advent talk, at least it would seem so. Could this also bring DS to mind and his unbridled tongue worldwide when he publically humiliated LS?
 Doing so without the proof you require for every statement made here by others. Can I find where you have publically stated so, as you do what you consider the wrong doing of others?

  Many will be weighed in the balance and found wanting in this matter of so great importance. Where are the Christians who walk by this rule? who will take God's part against the evilspeaker? who will please God, and set a watch, a continual watch, before the mouth, and keep the door of the lips? Speak evil of no man. Hear evil of no man. If there be no hearers, there will be no speakers of evil. If anyone speaks evil in your presence, check him. Refuse to hear him, though his manner be ever so soft and his accents mild. He may profess attachment, and yet throw out covert hints and stab the character in the dark.


Are you here, hearing evil, listening to and taking part in gossip. Even if only to keep it going to give a chance to "accuse others" of wrongdoing? Are you refusing to hear evil or gossip or actively participating?

 

[Sam]

Bob, could I get just a bit of clarification about the former mayor of Thompsonville story? I'm bolding some specific words in several of your quotes

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up. Did Danny launch an investigation into who was allegedly picking on the poor mayor, trying to scare the old man out of his wits and intimidate him?

You were questioned by anyman - btw, welcome anyman - and you carefully drew attention to the source of your story about the former mayor:

Please note again what I said:

I got to talk with the former mayor of Thompsonville. He told me that after Mike Riva sent him that nasty letter, someone would bang on his house every night and wake him up.

Then,  under further questioning, you  say:

To tell you the truth, Danny "told" me about the mayor. At least, that's what I recall.

And I believe you got that wrong. From what I could tell, he likes 3ABN.

That's the way rumors and gossip get started. People assume this or that instead of sticking with what was said.

So now you have made it sound like Danny "told" you the story about the mayor.  Was he the source of your story or did you also personally speak to the former mayor of Thompsonville?

Your next statement further confuses the issue for me:

Habanero, yes, the appellate court said something like that.

But it was in the administrative hearing that Danny spoke about the mayor, from what I recall.

So, does this mean that you read Danny's testimony from the administrative hearing and he told the story about Mike Riva sending a letter to the former mayor of Thompsonville?

Did the former mayor of Thompsonville actually tell you this story personally, as you stated at least twice or did you "speak" to him via recorded testimony?  I really would like to clearly understand this matter.

IMO, facts can be much more effective if initially stated in a straightforward manner.  The evidence can create a far more powerful witness if it doesn't appear manipulated or contrived.

Thank you for those question Nettie as I had the exact same.  Twice Mr. Pickle says "the mayor told him"  Then it went to "actually Danny told him" then it went to "what Danny said in transcripts".  What is going on here?

[Sam]

Thank you for those question Nettie as I had the exact same.  Twice Mr. Pickle says "the mayor told him"  Then it went to "actually Danny told him" then it went to "what Danny said in transcripts".  What is going on here?

I also would like to voice my thoughts here.

Mr. Pickle, I am new here and really don't approve if getting into a tit for tat but, in reading your posts I believe your actions, your defense of your actions, and all the allegations that you just throw out to the public, without proof, speak loudly of your motives and character.  You are throwing out names and alleged sins (even you yourself keep using the word "alleged") that you have not eyewitnessed or been a party to at all.  You are repeating what you have heard from others which clearly is the definition of gossip. Both by Mrs. White and the word.  Yet, when this is brought to your attention, you defend yourself by throwing out even more "allegations" against those involved with 3abn.  Have you ever considered, for even one minute, the lives, reputations, and the families you could be destroying if you have been given wrong or inaccurate information?  From what I read most of the people you have contacted for your information are people that have bones to pick with 3abn, Danny or his family. It is fairly obvious that some of those same people are using you as their tool to seek revenge and payback for situations they were not happy with.  EGW says that even if we see something with our own eyes we are not to repeat it, but to go to that person with love and compassion and discuss it with them alone. She goes on to say, that before you to them (if you have eyewitnessed something) that you must love them enough to give your life for them. Otherwise the motives belong to you and not to God.  If you are not an eyewitness you have greatly sinned by repeating and making public what you have been told.

I believe that you, Mr. Pickle, are being used as a weapon by those who seek revenge against 3abn.  By repeating what you yourself call "allegations" and making them public, you are accountable to God almighty for the destruction that you are undoubtedly causing.  You may trust the people that have given you the information.  You may believe everything that you have been told. But, by making it public without proof (or even with proof) you are going against the very ethics that make up christianity.

Mr. Pickle. If, down the road you find out that many of the accusations you have made against these people are false....what will you do then?  How will you repair their lives, families, reputations, etc?  How can you ever make it right?

Please, for a change, don't answer here by throwing out more allegations.  You only hurt your own reputation by doing so.

[Artiste]

Well!

Reddogs, anyman, Ian, and Sam all teaming up to take Advent Talk over to the "dark side".

I wonder how many others will be crawling out of the woodwork!

[Artiste]

It is a bit of a burden to have to plow through all those loooong, sanctimonious posts.

[Ozzie]

Well!

Reddogs, anyman, Ian, and Sam all teaming up to take Advent Talk over to the "dark side".

I wonder how many others will be crawling out of the woodwork!

I wondered how long it would be before more 'Danny-clones' would come out of the woodwork. There's been quite a number of people join in a very short time, I've noticed. 

[Chrissie]

Well!

Reddogs, anyman, Ian, and Sam all teaming up to take Advent Talk over to the "dark side".

I wonder how many others will be crawling out of the woodwork!

Interesting to note those who've joined AT in the last little while and the tone and content of their posts.

[Snoopy]

Agreed, Artiste!!  It does absolutely nothing for my "Christian experience" to have to sift through all that stuff and then to see the same folks doing basically the same things!

Thanks for the reality check!

It is a bit of a burden to have to plow through all those loooong, sanctimonious posts.

[anyman]

Sounds like the Word and reading it makes some uncomfortble which is a little strange considering this is a place is suppose to be where people who believe in it gather to talk. The pharasiess didn't like the Word either, made them uncomfortble.

[Chrissie]

Sounds like the Word and reading it makes some uncomfortble which is a little strange considering this is a place is suppose to be where people who believe in it gather to talk. The pharasiess didn't like the Word either, made them uncomfortble.

Sir, I am sure you find that those here really appreciate the Word of God. What they don't appreciate, is that Word and SOP being quoted to substantiate a position on covering up abuse and corruption. Big difference.

[GrandmaNettie]

Perhaps the influx of new members just shows this is getting to be a popular meeting place.

Welcome to each of you!!!  Have some freshly baked cookies and warm welcome hugs.

[Ozzie]

Perhaps the influx of new members just shows this is getting to be a popular meeting place.

Welcome to each of you!!!  Have some freshly baked cookies and warm welcome hugs.

Any for me GrandmaNettie? They look delicious. Makes my mouth water, and please... don't anyone come out of the woodwork and chide us for eating in between meals! This is a special treat.

[Bob Pickle]

Bob, could I get just a bit of clarification about the former mayor of Thompsonville story?

Part of the confusion has resulted because my answers fit the questions I was asked. Look at the questions I was asked and look at my answers, and it should be fairly clear what I meant by what I said. Try not to read anymore into what I wrote than what I wrote.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Thank you for those question Nettie as I had the exact same.  Twice Mr. Pickle says "the mayor told him"  Then it went to "actually Danny told him" then it went to "what Danny said in transcripts".  What is going on here?

I also would like to voice my thoughts here.

Mr. Pickle, I am new here and really don't approve if getting into a tit for tat but, in reading your posts I believe your actions, your defense of your actions, and all the allegations that you just throw out to the public, without proof, speak loudly of your motives and character.  You are throwing out names and alleged sins (even you yourself keep using the word "alleged") that you have not eyewitnessed or been a party to at all.  You are repeating what you have heard from others which clearly is the definition of gossip.

1) Let us correct the record and point out that the allegations made are allegations we can document, have corroborated statements or are specific statements "UNDER OATH";
2) The Bible is full of anthology clearly making public the sins of many, and for multiple purposes;
3) Mr Pickle offered to have an ecclesiatical process and 3ABN's answer was a Federal Lawsuite, a clearly brilliant move for one concerned about keeping their sins in the closet;
4) Repeating what you have heard from reliable sources is not the definition of gossip, it is history, journalism and a critical means by which the record is preserved for us all to learn from. Is  the entire Bible just a bunch of gossip?
5)Your statements are pure conjecture!!! They have absolutely no known foundation and if you have unsupported allegations that you are aware of, you specify what they are and we will PROVE IT or correct the record!!!

Both by Mrs. White and the word.  Yet, when this is brought to your attention, you defend yourself by throwing out even more "allegations" against those involved with 3abn.  Have you ever considered, for even one minute, the lives, reputations, and the families you could be destroying if you have been given wrong or inaccurate information?  From what I read most of the people you have contacted for your information are people that have bones to pick with 3abn, Danny or his family. It is fairly obvious that some of those same people are using you as their tool to seek revenge and payback for situations they were not happy with. 

1) I do not recall the statement of sources, therefore upon what basis would you declare such an egregious prevarication?
2) Are you aware of all the reputations and lives that have been ruined by the various actons of Danny Lee Shelton, Tommy Ray Shelton and other officers and directors of 3ABN???
3) Again, I challenge you to identify just what information you would like to declare "inaccurate" so we can freely discuss them...but be careful, you may get what you want, PROOF!!!


EGW says that even if we see something with our own eyes we are not to repeat it, but to go to that person with love and compassion and discuss it with them alone. She goes on to say, that before you to them (if you have eyewitnessed something) that you must love them enough to give your life for them. Otherwise the motives belong to you and not to God.  If you are not an eyewitness you have greatly sinned by repeating and making public what you have been told.

1) I would like the quote from EG White to support that short sighted tale!!! Mrs White wrote how many letters that have been published over the years to point out the sins of the church and specific individuals? Something we have unfortunately set aside. If we had done that in the Davenport Affair as we were suppose to do, we probably would have avoided a few more stewardship messes, including 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton, (See Who Watches? Who Cares pgs 55 to 108 for documentation);
2) I repeat yet again, your statement is not biblical...for example the most notable is found in Matthew 18: 15, 16 and 17 and look very closely at the last verse, something the church and the blind Laodicean repeatedly fails to see or apply...and that is unbiblical!!!
3) If you are aware of sin in the camp, you have GREATLY SINNED NOT TO PURGE THE CAMP IF THE PARTY IS UNREPENTANT, in fact you are complicit in the infection of the entire camp by failing to isolate and purge.
I will take my chances with vigilance!!!

I believe that you, Mr. Pickle, are being used as a weapon by those who seek revenge against 3abn.  By repeating what you yourself call "allegations" and making them public, you are accountable to God almighty for the destruction that you are undoubtedly causing.  You may trust the people that have given you the information.  You may believe everything that you have been told. But, by making it public without proof (or even with proof) you are going against the very ethics that make up christianity.

I believe you are being used as a detractor from obvious sin and are complicit in the hiding of those sins. Your accountability for failing to go to the perpetrators and calling for their humble confession and public reformation is an abominatin before God. And the Bible is full of those examples. Their soles are in your very hands and you have a Christian Duty to them. Go, therefore, and bring them to repentance before you become the most accountable. And that is BIBLICAL

Mr. Pickle. If, down the road you find out that many of the accusations you have made against these people are false....what will you do then?  How will you repair their lives, families, reputations, etc?  How can you ever make it right?

And, Sam, what will you do when you have to face the reality of your inaction when you are sitting in judgement for a thousand years and see just what your inaction may have done to  the souls of the perpatrators becuase you deliberately refused to bring them to confession and reformation? ANd what of the souls of the victims?

That would assume that you were not "left behind", the most cruel penalty of all. So, Sam, look carefully at the evidence and do what you should have already done and then come back here and apologize, after you have done your God Given Duty. 

Please, for a change, don't answer here by throwing out more allegations.  You only hurt your own reputation by doing so.

If we were concerned for our reputation, we would have remained silent as you have done. We are concerned for the reputation of the victims and for the souls of perpetrators  and victims. Therefore, we challenge you to take up the just cause and bring the perpetrators to a just confession and reformation that we may all find unity in the Spirit.

It is now your unqualified calling and your failure will not go un-noticed!!!.

Gailon Arthur Joy

[Bob Pickle]

I believe that you, Mr. Pickle, are being used as a weapon by those who seek revenge against 3abn.

Try not to allow yourself to be duped into thinking that.

Mr. Pickle. If, down the road you find out that many of the accusations you have made against these people are false....what will you do then?

Since I have tried to only state that which is true, that will be quite unlikely.

For example, when I have spoken about the child molestation and sexual misconduct allegations against Tommy Shelton, I have left it at that, except to add that I have personally spoken with seven of his alleged victims.

In regards to Danny Shelton's covering up of those allegations, I have it on Walt Thompson's word that Danny told him that the allegations are 30 years old and that Tommy apologized, even though the letter Glenn Dryden sent Walt in 2003 asked Tommy to apologize to a church that he had pastored from about 1995 to about 2000. I also have it on Walt Thompson's word that the allegations are due in some way to a feud between Dryden and Tommy, even though Dryden lived 800 miles away until 8 years after Tommy's ordination was suspended in 1985 over these allegations.

Regarding private inurement, I have it on the authority of deeds filed in the Franklin County Courthouse that Danny bought a house from 3ABN on Sept. 25, 1998 for $6,139, and sold it to Elora Ford on Oct. 2, 1998 for $135,000. I have it on the authority of 3ABN's Form 990 signed under penalty of perjury by Danny that a house that year was sold for a mere $6,129, at a huge loss, and yet no section 4958 excess benefit transaction took place! And I have it on Walt Thompson's word that Danny asked the board to allow this so that he could build equity for retirement.

Now Sam, I have a question for you. This will test your sensitivity for the helpless and mistreated, your sensitivity to basic moral values. Walt Thompson told me that he did an adequate investigation of the child molestation allegations even though he relied upon the assertions of Danny and Tommy, and never contacted the alleged victims, their families, or the two ordaining associations that had given Tommy credentials, even though Glenn Dryden had invited him to.

My question to you is, did Walt do the right thing? Or did he act irresponsibly and put 3ABN in financial jeopardy by his ongoing refusal to properly handle those allegations?

And in light of the fact that new allegations surfaced in Virginia in early December 2006, was not Danny's tribute to alleged pedophile Tommy Shelton on December 31, 2006, utterly reprehensible, and did it not show that he lacked the moral qualifications to lead a ministry like 3ABN?

I mean, Elder Folkenberg was allegedly involved in some sort of land deal, whether right or wrong, and he resigned. He did not stay by the GC as a consultant. What's Danny's problem that he can't do the right thing and leave? Folkenberg never gave a globally televised tribute to an alleged pedophile less than one month after new allegations were announced. Danny did. Why is Danny still around?