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[RedFalcon]

I am confused here. In a book the usual senario is to tell a story and later present the solution of what happened. Does this story have a conclusion in the book or not?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

I may be wrong, but isn't the pastor of a church supposed to set mood of the church as an entity?  I realize he/she cannot shepherd all members (sheep being the dumb creatures that they are), but I think that's where the buck stops....squarely in front of the pastor.  ACCKK - don't hit me!  j/k

hmm.  Faith without works is dead.

You could not be more wrong. The purpose of a pastor is evangelism. He is to be soul winning 24/7. He should be teaching laymen how to give bible studies by giving bible studies. He should be holding evangelism campaigns to bring in the studies into fellowship with the Body of Christ. He should be leading the congregation in evangelism, not being the Vicar of the Good Shepard. Christ is the Good Shepard and the head Elder of the Church should attend to the business of the church congregation with the Church Board. And even then, 80% of the time in every meeting should be dedicated to developing new soul winning programs.

The Ministerial Secretary should be guiding the Pastor, particularly new Pastors in their evangelism efforts. And the Conference President Should be working constantly to develop and implement conference wide evangelism efforts, including the use of Colporteurs and Bible workers to work with what should be over-worked Pastors as they prepare for one campaign after another.

That is the view from here!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy

[bonnie]

I am confused here. In a book the usual senario is to tell a story and later present the solution of what happened. Does this story have a conclusion in the book or not?

No, there is no conclusion as far as I know.  There is no solution UNLESS the actions and problems, the abuse that prompted such a book and effort is taken seriously.
Without that it is just another book and story.

[bonnie]

1You could not be more wrong. The purpose of a pastor is evangelism. He is to be soul winning 24/7. He should be teaching laymen how to give bible studies by giving bible studies. He should be holding evangelism campaigns to bring in the studies into fellowship with the Body of Christ.

What is the most effective ways to win souls. Speak it, teach it to others and forget it,OR......






 2.He should be leading the congregation in evangelism, not being the Vicar of the Good Shepard. Christ is the Good Shepard and the head Elder of the Church should attend to the business of the church congregation with the Church Board. And even then, 80% of the time in every meeting should be dedicated to developing new soul winning programs.


What is evangelism and what does it cover? If there is a problem with the pastor and the head elder you leave no where to go and it is no ones business, which is what many find. The only business is evangelism to those we want to bring in and very little left for keeping them. Maybe the fact that 80% of the time efforts are made to win more and and 20% of the time is to be divided between the many other aspects of church business is why we have problems keeping the efforts of 80%

3.The Ministerial Secretary should be guiding the Pastor, particularly new Pastors in their evangelism efforts. And the Conference President Should be working constantly to develop and implement conference wide evangelism efforts, including the use of Colporteurs and Bible workers to work with what should be over-worked Pastors as they prepare for one campaign after another.

Guiding the pastor in what??  Maybe our efforts need to be a little more evenly divided. Being instrumental in bringing new souls in is followed by what responsibility for all. From the GC president down to the member in the pew?
There is no need for discussion or concern when some feel that there are obvious or alleged wrong doing by 3 ABN. We can find no one that has any other duties besides evangelism
Why is there so much concern geared in that direction relating to leaders that some feel should have either stepped away and distanced themselves or spoken out. It does not appear to be their job
They are doing what you suggest. They have won many souls from what I hear. Any conference that may have a connection with an org. that may present problems has only to have ...

Conference Presidentworking constantly to develop and implement conference wide evangelism efforts, including the use of Colporteurs and Bible workers to work with what should be over-worked Pastors as they prepare for one campaign after another.  

At least from what I have read there has been a pretty dedicated effort to express concern and efforts geared towards the single issue fo evangelism.








[/quote]

[RedFalcon]

There is no conclusion?  Then what is the point of the story?
From the first introduction it would appear that you are blaming the pator and the whole church for being abusers simply because they did not notice ot talk to a crying worman in the back of the church. From people who did not read the book that is the point it would appear you are making.

[bonnie]

There is no conclusion?  Then what is the point of the story?
From the first introduction it would appear that you are blaming the pator and the whole church for being abusers simply because they did not notice ot talk to a crying worman in the back of the church. From people who did not read the book that is the point it would appear you are making.

Maybe the point of the story is what can be learned by those that care or are interested in learning how to prevent or support someone.

There was nothing "simply" about this crying woman. Well known and ignored. 
How do you know about abuse and ignore it and escape your portion of the blame?

Most here, and it seems you are not one of them, knew what I was referring to as to the book. What the book addresses is not  to put a story out there to point blame.

We ignore and dismiss while discussing the "love of Christ"

This should give some idea....


counselor-authors will be presenting a book at this conference on abuse in the SDA church (and all denominationl churches). There are books in the non-SDA christian community but very few in our own church. The article mentioned above hits Domestic Violence right between the eyes (no pun intended and I am not laughting) We are talking about a very silent/denial subject of Christian family abuse. This abuse goes on, from the pastor(oh, yes it does) in the pulpit, the leaders in the church on down to the pew sitters. All kinds of abuse, emotional, physical, verbal, spiritual and all come under "battering". The abuser and the one abused are all hurting and the church family should be protecting the victims and working on saving the abuser. What 'good' advice is frequently told the victims in the church?--"The Bible says not to divorce", "Don't spread the church's dirty laundry", "What did YOU do to make him hit you"? "You need to go back and be a good submissive wife". Then there is also the husband that is abused and has no where to turn.

Name of the book? "We Suffered in Silence" How a Pastor's family lived in Shame while hiding Dark Spots on the Clerical Collar.

[RedFalcon]

I went back and re read the thread. Nowhere do I get the impression or statement do I get that you are refering to a book in your discussion. Did anyone else not know this was just a situation in a book?

[bonnie]

You are right, I explained it badly. My example is not part of the book, but ties into what has been explained about the book so far and the problems we face as a denomination. My example is on that happened and never should, while people looked the other way. It was not a case of ignorance, or just not seeing what was going on.

It was deliberate. One of the reason's. "Well, he was doing some good things so we didn't know what to do"

What good is our profession of faith when it is shown in this way? What are the ways that some "teeth can be put into our profession of faith"

[Chrissie]

I went back and re read the thread. Nowhere do I get the impression or statement do I get that you are refering to a book in your discussion. Did anyone else not know this was just a situation in a book?

RedFalcon, I feel that you are missing the point. This is often not "just a situation in a book". This can be real life experiences. How would you deal with it? Pass it off as 'some situation like in a book', or actively try to do something to change the situation? I think we all need to ask ourselves that question.

[RedFalcon]

Chrissie

How can I change a situation in a book. I am not a member of that church nor will I most likely ever be. So I do not understand your point?

[RedFalcon]

Chrissie

I think you put to much into that story. Many people would not do anything because they just do not want to [censored] into someone elses affairs.Getting into another affairs is a difficult thing to do for most people. Some can do it with ease others of a introverted nature like myself would be find it very unconfortable to deal with someones elses pains.
I do resent the implied statement that those that find it difficult to get into anothers emotions are themselves abusers though. Not knowing the reasons for the woman crying and not asking does not make one an abuser does it?

[Chrissie]

Chrissie

How can I change a situation in a book. I am not a member of that church nor will I most likely ever be. So I do not understand your point?

Well, put it this way. How would you deal with it, if it was an actual situation in your Church? I think this is a very easy question to understand.

[RedFalcon]

Fair question Chrissy.

Let me say this. As a man it would not be proper for me to comfort a grieving female church member. To many times a woman in that position is vunerable and sometimes men take advantage of that situation or the comfort is misinterpreted or leads to a sexual situation that neigher side intended. So because of that I would not want to get involved without a female church member involved to avoid any misunderstanding.

Now a female church member it would be proper to get involved and comfort the woman.
Do you understand my position?

[bonnie]

Chrissie

How can I change a situation in a book. I am not a member of that church nor will I most likely ever be. So I do not understand your point?

Wouuld you understand if I asked,  Are we willing as a church to prevent this story from being retold in the future, time and time again,just different names, different churches?  ? Before you have to deal with the pain of another. Maybe your church. Maybe a family member


How is a profession of faith carried out? Are the words that are so easy to say all there is to it

[bonnie]

Fair question Chrissy.

Let me say this. As a man it would not be proper for me to comfort a grieving female church member. To many times a woman in that position is vunerable and sometimes men take advantage of that situation or the comfort is misinterpreted or leads to a sexual situation that neigher side intended. So because of that I would not want to get involved without a female church member involved to avoid any misunderstanding.

Now a female church member it would be proper to get involved and comfort the woman.
Do you understand my position?

 So because of that I would not want to get involved without a female church member involved to avoid any misunderstanding

You have provided your own solution to the problem of getting involved, one on one?

Would it be proper for you as a man to become involved before there was someone identified in this situation?