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[childoftheking]

The spring rain was given on the day or pentecost in New Testament times but now we need the latter or autumn rain. As the disciples needed to be united and of one accord in order to be ready to receive the Holy Spirit, so now we cannot be ready when we are divided in spirit.

When we came together in 1888 there were factions that favored differing positions.There was heatedness of spirit as each side fought for its legitamacy.  Each side was convinced of the necessity of the acceptance of its own opinion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1888_Minneapolis_General_Conference_(Adventist) We are told that This prevented the unity that could/would have prepared the way for the latter rain.

Whatever our personal convictions about WO or any issue, since this may be our last and only opportunity for glory (no one knows) shall we perhaps let probation close without the visitation of the Holy Spirit in power? Is this not the devil's plan? Is this not the more important issue? The Holy Spirit is so yearnng to do His work. So Which history shall we repeat? Shall we humble ourselves (which ever side may be right) and repeat the day of Pentecost or shall we repeat 1888?

We so need to seek the Lord and come together. We all want the Lord's will to be done. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35 That for sure is the Lord's will. More important to Him, I believe than whether we ordain women or whether we don't.
   

[Bob Pickle]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. With all that's going on out there, this whole debate seems like a big distraction from our appointed work.

[childoftheking]

Amen, Bob. And I think that is the devil's planned strategy. He can always find points that would divide us. If we come together on one point, he will make us aware of another difference. On the other hand, we can defeat his plans by doing as the pioneers did when they anticipated the Lord's return in 1844 - making everything right with our brethren and repenting of our self assuredness, independence and self righteousness, humbling ourselves and seeking the Lord as our first duty.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Don't forget though that there are tares with the wheat, possibly, or probably even amongst the delegates at the upcoming GC Session, not to mention also in the church leadership.

[childoftheking]

But according to Jesus, it is not our job to sort them out. Open sin we are to deal with, yes. But let's not demonize people who are just as intersted as ourselves in doing the Lord's will but who have honest differences of opinion.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I wasn't saying anything about who they are or sorting them out, as I agree that it isn't our job to do that.   I was simply stating that the tares are amongst us, even in leadership.

[childoftheking]

Well, that is a given, Daryl. Always have been tares, always will be until the final harvest. To tell the truth, I think there are usually many tares on both sides of any issue stirring things up and causing hard feelings. Because they seem like the genuine grain, probably only God knows who they are. They may not even consider themselves to be tares, In fact they probably don't -don't you think?.

[Daryl Fawcett]

You are probably correct as even Judas the Betrayer probably didn't consider himself a tare.

[Snoopy]

If I remember correctly, it was intense dissent over the WO issue that caused an administrative rift right here at AdventTalk.  I observed people SO intent on being right that they tromped all over the opinions of their alleged friends.  I am sure the Master sheds tears over that type of behavior.  I still stand by my original thought on the matter.  Obviously the Bible is not as clear on this issue as some seem to think, or we would not be in the situation we are now.  Thank you, COTK, for the thought-provoking post.

[childoftheking]

Thank you all for considering this. I would like to quote the counsel that was given when one of the early believers advocated for discontinuing the use of swine's flesh which is now an accepted practice but at that time was a new and radical idea.

"God is leading out a people, not a few separate individuals here and there, one believing this thing, another that. Angels of God are doing the work committed to their trust. The third angel is leading out and purifying a people, and they should move with him unitedly. Some run ahead of the angels that are leading this people; but they have to retrace every step, and meekly follow no faster than the angels lead. I saw that the angels of God would lead His people no faster than they could receive and act upon the important truths that are communicated to them. But some restless spirits do not more than half do up their work. As the angel leads them, they get in haste for something new, and rush on without divine guidance, and thus bring confusion and discord into the ranks. They do not speak or act in harmony with the body. I saw that you both must speedily be brought where you are willing to be led, instead of desiring to lead, or Satan will step in and lead you in his way, to follow his counsel. Some look at your set notions, and consider them an evidence of humility. They are deceived. You both are making work for repentance." Testimonies for the Church Volume 1 p 207

So we can be so vehement about our beliefs that even when we are right, we are wrong in our spirit. I am not saying that change is bad. Is the Lord leading us as a people? Then let's move unitedly or not at all.

[Daryl Fawcett]

That was a very good quote.

[Bob Pickle]

Note where the discussion has gone of late.

1. A former conference president has publicly encouraged the idea that unions and conferences ordain women anyway, even if the GC Session votes No.

2. In the March issue of Adventist World, Dave Gemmell, after citing historian Stan Hickerson, stated that between 1879 and the Great Depression, we reached the point where we had one female pastor for every 5,000 members, a ratio never reached since. I called Stan and asked him whether we could identify any churches during that time period which had had women assigned to them as pastors, and he said there were none.

Let's have a discussion, but let's avoid misrepresentations, and let's avoid encouraging the disregarding of GC Session votes, unless there is a biblical mandate otherwise.

[childoftheking]

Maybe so but even when the facts are correctly represented there are still differences of opinion. It reminds me of the disciples bickering over who would be highest in the kingdom. Luke 9:26 I am sick of discussions of this type just as Jesus must have been.

Let's face it. This is a power struggle no matter how you spin it. Some of the old guys are afraid of men losing the dignity, reverence and power that traditionally belongs to them, especially belongs to clergy men, that they are very offended by the very thought of wo. What are we all pharisees? What would Jesus say to them? Some women are not content to quietly serve or have their sisters in the church serve without recogntion or compensation. Are we all Marthas or worse, needing to  be in charge and wanting kudos for the value of our service? Or are we like Jesus, girding ourselves with a towel and taking the lowest jobs without complaint? Following the example set by our Lord who of all men was treated most unfairly and went quietly like a sheep to the slaughter without ever saying a mumbling word. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. Can you give up arguing even if the "other side" offends you? I don't care which side is right or worng. Both sides have supporters who just don't ever seem to want to give it up. And frankly that attitude offends me.

[Bob Pickle]

I would agree that this seems to be a power struggle, given the fact that this whole controversy this time around started over whether women may serve as conference presidents. But on our local level here, among those who attend our church, the women are unitedly opposed to WO, and it isn't about men wanting to retain power at all.

I think that being weary of the debate is a feeling that is widespread. Yet people being able to freely share their views is something that was opposed in the 1888 era. So being able to share one's views is a must. But I'm uncomfortable with employing the methods of political campaigns when doing so.

[Snoopy]

I, too, am offended by the attitude displayed by many with regard to this issue.  Here is an interesting article:

http://www.lightbearers.org/a-closer-look-at-womens-ordination/