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The NSA leaker, Edward Snowden, should be prosecuted.

1 (16.7%)

Congressional leaders who knew our phone records were being snooped into and didn't tell us should be impeached.

2 (33.3%)

Clapper, who admitted that he lied to Congress (he had said the "least untruthful answer possible") should be fired

1 (16.7%)

Every official involved should be impeached.

2 (33.3%)

No one should be prosecuted or lose their jobs.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

[christian]

I am writting your from work so I don't have my information with me. Paul was sent to Caesar as a spokes person to the heathen, I am paraphrasing what I read in Patriots and Prophets. Our Government, as all the Governments of the world today constantly lie to the people, that has become an exceptable part of governing in the times we live. Surely you are not trying to imply that all this is new. The civil Governments do not operate under the restriction that Christians do. The only thing that has kept the Governments of the world restrained is the Holy Spirit working through men of God in an ungodly world.

What you don't seem to understand is that if you were to prosecute Clapper you would have to indict the entire congress to include Judges and the President. The Governments of the entire world all work on a slidding scale when it comes to truthfulness to its people, that is what Governing is all about in a secular world.

You must remember that we do not work and live in a theocracy but rather a republic. The people of this nation and the nations of the world  have less to fear from all the secular groups in the world than with the Christians. This indignation and religious fervor for truth scares me more than anything because it does not match actions. When the religious leaders of the world are allowed sway and power the amount of carnage will reach to heaven.

[Bob Pickle]

1) Paul appealed to Caesar because if he hadn't, he could have been killed. He sought protection from the Romans because he did not trust his own people. Jews of his day could easily have cast dispersion on him for doing so.

2) Lying is unacceptable, says the Sovereign of the universe, who is cited in the Pledge of Allegiance and alluded to in the Declaration of Independence.

3) "What you don't seem to understand is that if you were to prosecute Clapper you would have to indict the entire congress to include Judges and the President."

So because someone else has dared lie when testifying under oath, we can never again require someone to testify truthfully under oath again? This sort of logic would eventually lead to complete and total anarchy. As soon as enough people have committed some sort of wickedness, then we could never punish that sort of wickedness again.

4) "You must remember that we do not work and live in a theocracy but rather a republic."

Of course, but it isn't just any sort of republic. It's a Protestant republic. And let's remember that in Rom. 13 it is clear that God has entrusted the governments of this world with the responsibility of enforcing the second table of the Decalog as it pertains to outward actions. Certainly perjury is something that non-theocracies can punish.

Remember the true philosophy of history? God tests each nation to see if they will follow His laws or not. When their iniquity reaches a certain level, they fall, and another takes their place. Non-theocracies are not exempt.

5) "The people of this nation and the nations of the world  have less to fear from all the secular groups in the world than with the Christians."

Remember the 2009 story I cited earlier about Bush asking Chirac to invade Iraq based on Ezekiel's prophecy? How do you know that the surveilance state is not a manifestation of just what you are describing?

It is possible that there is some sort of secret alliance behind the scenes with the goal of controlling the entire world and having the papacy be the spiritual head of it all. If Reagan could enter into a secret alliance with the Vatican to topple communism, and we all learn about it after the fact, such a secret alliance is certainly possible.

6) Is America speaking like a lamb or like a dragon right now?

[christian]

1) Paul appealed to Caesar because if he hadn't, he could have been killed. He sought protection from the Romans because he did not trust his own people. Jews of his day could easily have cast dispersion on him for doing so.

2) Lying is unacceptable, says the Sovereign of the universe, who is cited in the Pledge of Allegiance and alluded to in the Declaration of Independence.

3) "What you don't seem to understand is that if you were to prosecute Clapper you would have to indict the entire congress to include Judges and the President."

So because someone else has dared lie when testifying under oath, we can never again require someone to testify truthfully under oath again? This sort of logic would eventually lead to complete and total anarchy. As soon as enough people have committed some sort of wickedness, then we could never punish that sort of wickedness again.

4) "You must remember that we do not work and live in a theocracy but rather a republic."

Of course, but it isn't just any sort of republic. It's a Protestant republic. And let's remember that in Rom. 13 it is clear that God has entrusted the governments of this world with the responsibility of enforcing the second table of the Decalog as it pertains to outward actions. Certainly perjury is something that non-theocracies can punish.

Remember the true philosophy of history? God tests each nation to see if they will follow His laws or not. When their iniquity reaches a certain level, they fall, and another takes their place. Non-theocracies are not exempt.

5) "The people of this nation and the nations of the world  have less to fear from all the secular groups in the world than with the Christians."

Remember the 2009 story I cited earlier about Bush asking Chirac to invade Iraq based on Ezekiel's prophecy? How do you know that the surveilance state is not a manifestation of just what you are describing?

It is possible that there is some sort of secret alliance behind the scenes with the goal of controlling the entire world and having the papacy be the spiritual head of it all. If Reagan could enter into a secret alliance with the Vatican to topple communism, and we all learn about it after the fact, such a secret alliance is certainly possible.

6) Is America speaking like a lamb or like a dragon right now?

We often crouch things in a religious context, sometimes when it does not apply. I don't believe the United States is speaking like a dragon now. I do believe we are on the cusp of the time when God said "this message shall be preached into all the world and then the end shall come".

As far as Paul seeking protection from Rome, I don't believe that was the case, going to Rome would seal his death for certain.

There are those who live a Christ life and then there is the world who have no such standards. The world is not just getting bad now, it has been on the wrong side of the truth for thousands of years. God imposed himself on humanity to preserve the world for his purposes. The end of time will come when all have been given an opportunity to except or reject him.

The events that are happening now are a prelude to when this world shall be lightened with the knowledge of God. Jesus came at a time when the world was in one of the worst states as far as religion stands. But when the world thinks they are enlightened with the truth, after they have rejected the truth, then shall the earth be covered in darkness.

Satan knows that the end of time is at hand and he is stirring the pot to enrage and inflame the nations. Snowden going to China and Russia and even Cuba as an alternative is crazy. Obviously his convictions are not strong enough to put into action when threatened. The countries he is fleeing to have the most repressive governments in the world.

[Bob Pickle]

I don't believe the United States is speaking like a dragon now.

Satan is a liar and the father of it. If lying with impunity and draconian surveilance doesn't qualify as dragon-like, what would?

As far as Paul seeking protection from Rome, I don't believe that was the case, going to Rome would seal his death for certain.

Speaking of Paul's appeal to Caesar: "Thus it was that once more, because of hatred born of bigotry and self-righteousness, a servant of God was driven to turn for protection to the heathen" (AA 430).

[Bob Pickle]

From the 2012 article "The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say)":

Sitting in a restaurant not far from NSA headquarters, the place where he spent nearly 40 years of his life, Binney held his thumb and forefinger close together. “We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state,” he says.

An example of how the system can and allegedly has gone awry is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield.

[Bob Pickle]

From "Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S." in the Washington Post. Note particularly the last paragraph quoted:

Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don’t agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago.

After the New York Times had been enjoined from publishing the Pentagon Papers — on June 15, 1971, the first prior restraint on a newspaper in U.S. history — and I had given another copy to The Post (which would also be enjoined), I went underground with my wife, Patricia, for 13 days. My purpose (quite like Snowden’s in flying to Hong Kong) was to elude surveillance while I was arranging — with the crucial help of a number of others, still unknown to the FBI — to distribute the Pentagon Papers sequentially to 17 other newspapers, in the face of two more injunctions. The last three days of that period was in defiance of an arrest order: I was, like Snowden now, a “fugitive from justice.”

Yet when I surrendered to arrest in Boston, having given out my last copies of the papers the night before, I was released on personal recognizance bond the same day. Later, when my charges were increased from the original three counts to 12, carrying a possible 115-year sentence, my bond was increased to $50,000. But for the whole two years I was under indictment, I was free to speak to the media and at rallies and public lectures. I was, after all, part of a movement against an ongoing war. Helping to end that war was my preeminent concern. I couldn’t have done that abroad, and leaving the country never entered my mind.

There is no chance that experience could be reproduced today, let alone that a trial could be terminated by the revelation of White House actions against a defendant that were clearly criminal in Richard Nixon’s era — and figured in his resignation in the face of impeachment — but are today all regarded as legal (including an attempt to “incapacitate me totally”).

So what was clearly criminal in Nixon's day is now regarded as legal, including total incapacitation, which I assume means assassination? I find this troubling.

[Battle Creek]

We saw on TV a letter sent from the American embassies in many countries to the various governments telling these governments to arrest Snowden and turn him over to the United States if he should appear in their countries. The letters were understood as threats by the various countries and therefore the reason so many countries in the western world hesitated aiding Snowden.

Some issued declarations they were not able to accept him as a refugee before he appears on their soil. Then he would be treated as any other refugee whose life is in danger.