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Author Topic: Is Allah God?  (Read 21884 times)

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Dedication

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Is Allah God?
« on: September 11, 2012, 09:08:56 AM »

Earlier someone mentioned a dialogue between Dwight Nelson and Steve Bohr
I went on line looking for it but found something else that rather alarmed me.

All kinds of links popped up concerning Dwight Nelson preaching that Allah of the Moslems was the same God that Abraham, Israel, and Christians worship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU6-rKqfigM

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Johann

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 01:02:15 PM »

A very difficult question. Some SDA have for many years tried to give the Muslims a hand by pointing to similarities in our life styles, and also in the common history with the Jews since Abraham is also their forefather although through Ishmael.

When I checked a few year ago, Allah is the name for God in Arab Bible translations, and Allah is also the name used for God in our publications, such as Sabbath School lessons. This could be what Dwight Nelson is referring to.

Some of those who have lived and worked with Muslims evaluate there being about a 25% overlap in the definitions of Allah and God. Muslims have no use for the trinity because they do not need a savior, since their religion relies of salvation by works alone. In a religion where Allah governs every act there is no need for forgiveness, as far as I understand it.
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Daryl Fawcett

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 01:17:43 PM »

It is good to find the common ground, whatever that is, between Muslims and Seventh-day Adventists.

Another common ground is in relation to the Health Food Laws as in clean and unclean foods.

Dedication

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 04:51:28 PM »

It is good to find the common ground, whatever that is, between Muslims and Seventh-day Adventists.

Another common ground is in relation to the Health Food Laws as in clean and unclean foods.

Common ground as a stepping stone to show them the truth of the gospel, yes.
Common ground to bring Adventists in harmony with Muslims, no.

The term "god" simply means "god" it does not define which god-- the Israelites worshipped the true GOD, but they also ended up going after false "gods".

The term "allah" may also have the same meaning as "god" and can be used in the same way.

HOWEVER, to say the god of the muslims is the same as the God of Christians is like saying
that Marduke, the god of Babylon, is the same as the Creator God of Israel.
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Dedication

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 04:54:05 PM »


The Muslims claim:
‘THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER.’

Who is Allah?
Many people mistakenly say Allah is just another name for the Biblical God. They say it is the same God Abraham worshipped and we worship, except they call him Allah.

Comparing the two shows us Allah IS NOT the same as the God of the Bible!!!


ALLAH chose Hagar and her son Ishmael for his covenant. (A covenant that appears not to need a Savior, but is based on man's doings)

THE GOD OF OUR BIBLE chose Abraham's other son, ISAAC, the son of promise, as heir to His Covenant. Gen. 17:19-21 (A covenant based on God's Promises, in which Christ is the true Israel, and all who are in Him are Abraham's seed.[Gal. 3:29])




ALLAH is singular, aloof, and says the biblical teaching that Christ is the Son of God is blasphemous. In fact they go so far as to say,
 "for the Christians to call Christ the Son of God is to imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse upon them." (Sura at-taubah, 30)
The Qur'an Says:
"Those who believe that Allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).
Allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).
Jews say that Ezra is the son of Allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. May Allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides Allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31).
Allah is only one. He is too transcendent and majestic to have a son. The Messiah is not ashamed to be a slave of Allah (5:72,73).

THE GOD OF OUR BIBLE is "ONE GOD" yet it is not singular, for He revealed Himself through the Son Jesus Christ, who is declared as God. (Heb. 1:1,8) "Let US, make man, in OUR image, in the image of God. (Gen. 1:26,27)



ALLAH advocates salvation by works
THE GOD OF OUR BIBLE pays the atonement price with His own Blood and writes His laws upon our hearts.

Allah is not the God of heaven.


 History records that Allah originated as a purely Arabic Deity. Allah already existed in Mecca before Muhammad. The god Sin, "The Controller of the Night," had the crescent moon as his emblem, and the lunar-based calendar, which became the primary religious symbols of Islam, was worshipped in Arabia as AI-Ilah Lord of the Ka'aba. So the tribe to which Muhammad belonged was already worshipping AI-Ilah – the moon God. Allah is still associated with the crescent moon of the lunargoddess.

ALLAH was represented by a black stone which was believed to have come down from heaven. This black stone is supposedly a sign or symbol of being the corner stone in the Kingdom of Allah. "The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?” (Matthew 21:42); “The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matthew 21:43). The Moslems, understand these verse to mean that Jesus (who they say was a prophet like Mohammed) made it clear the rejected stone in the prophecy (21:42) meant a rejected nation and that this rejected nation was none other than the Ishmaelites which have now been given what the Israelites (21:43). History, they say, has shown this to be the case.


Yet, the Bible tells us that Christ is the cornerstone!
Eph.2:20 "Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone";

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Gregory

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 05:36:45 PM »

On a personal note, I would be interested in knowing if those people who   quote the Quran have read it from beginning to end, or if they are just citing what someone else has said.

I would also like to know if any of have read the commentary of the verses so that they understand how Islamics understand the ancient verses.

To set the record straight:  I have read it from cover to cover and I have read the commentary in an attempt to understand how Islamics intrepret the ancient verses.

Why is this of value?
1) The Quran is not typically published in chronological order as it was written.
2) The commenetary can point you to later verses where an earlier verse was either modified or further explained.
3) Doing so mays et a historical context.  ISlam arose in a time of great military conflict.  Some of the verses related to the destruction of ISlamic enemies were specificlyrelated to military conflict and were notintended tko bapplicable to the general public.

4) Islam is focused on idolatry.  It calls Jews and Christians the "People fo the Book."
5) Anyone who suggests that Islam has not plce for a forgiving god simply misrepresents Islam.  ILn Islam, Allah is constantly described as a mericful, forgiving god. 
6) The vengence that some see in Islam is directed at those who would destroy Islam.

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Murcielago

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 09:15:17 PM »

Much of the wrath and vengeance seen in Allah of the Koran is very similar the the wrath and vengeance of the God of the Old Testament. In the OT stories more people are killed by God directly, or by his command than are killed by anyone, or anything else. He demanded the killing of innocent women and children several times. I would say that he and Allah could certainly be the same God.
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Artiste

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 09:26:58 PM »

So I take it that you have no use for the God of the Old Testament.
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Murcielago

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 09:54:07 PM »

So I take it that you have no use for the God of the Old Testament.
No, I just believe that he and Allah are most likely the same God. Their similarities are so much to ignore. I believe that different times, circumstances, and cultures require different actions and policies. Fundamentally God may not change, but in circumstantial variations actions and reactions have to be tailored to the particulars. I believe that on the OT God's presence among humans was confined to the ark of the covenant in the most Holy place, but that after the death of Jesus, each person who is a believer is now the Ark of the covenant and carries the presence of God with all that is implied in that. Where it was once a thing confined to one nation, it became universal to humankind. I believe that Mohammed only knew God/Allah as the OT God of the Jews and had tremendous respect for that God. I believe that the religion he founded was based entirely on that God, but tailored to the circumstances of his time.
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Artiste

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 09:58:03 PM »

Interesting.
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Murcielago

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 10:28:38 PM »

Like Gregory, I have read the Koran cover to cover many times, as well as the commentaries. I have also read many books in the histories of the people's of the region. I tend to believe, based on what I have read, that the early Baals were based also a primitive version of God. I also believe that many people from many cultures and geographical areas have worshipped God, not really knowing who they were worshipping. I also believe that many Christians do NOT worship God, but a made up entity that they have concocted to appease their need for divine accreditation of their cultural or pathological needs and/or wants. Just as many Muslims have done with their versions of Allah/God. When it comes to recreating God in their own image, neither Muslims, Christains, or Jews hold a monopoly. They are equally guilty.
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Dedication

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 11:05:50 PM »

No wonder Jesus had to come to reveal God the Father.

In Murcielago's posts comparing Him to the God of the Moslems one would have to agree with the Gnostic that the God of the OT was a different God from the one in the New Testament. 

I strongly suggest for you  to read Patriarchs and Prophets in conjunction with the Bible  to get a better picture of God in the Old Testament, and stop reading the Koran.


Though it may be true that the Muslims and the papal church served the same god.  There is speculation that the papal church nurtured Mohammad into his position as spiritual leader of the Arabs in their hopes to destroy the Syrian Christian churches that were not lining up with papal policies.   But then the "project" took on a life of it's own and  "backfired". 


I'm surprised that the proponents of women's equal rights would think one of the most anti-women's rights society serves the same God.
 

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Dedication

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2012, 11:17:23 PM »

Quote:"the OT God's presence among humans was confined to the ark of the covenant in the most Holy place, but that after the death of Jesus, each person who is a believer is now the Ark of the covenant and carries the presence of God "

Why would you believe that?
Didn't Enoch, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, David, Daniel and others who "walked with God" have God with them?  God's presence was with people in the Old Testament. 
These people of faith had that faith because God's presence was not confined to the ark but was with people working on their hearts and minds and changing them into great men and women living for Him. 

God isn't confined to any place, He is Omnipresent.  He's not being carried around by believers.  He is WITH the believers carrying them through life.  He was with believers in the OT and He is with believers in modern times.
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Murcielago

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2012, 11:31:22 PM »

I have read Patriarchs and Prophets several times. I understand that perspective.

I read books like the Koran because I would rather make up my own mind regarding them, than to just be blindly led. That would be the height of intellectual dishonesty, wouldnt it? I couldn't honestly ask a Mulim to read the Bible and refuse to read the Koran.

Like I said, I believe Muhammed formulated Islam based of the God of the OT that he knew, and customized God to the needs of his time and place, including his culture which was very disparaging to women.
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Murcielago

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Re: Is Allah God?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2012, 11:51:35 PM »

Quote:"the OT God's presence among humans was confined to the ark of the covenant in the most Holy place, but that after the death of Jesus, each person who is a believer is now the Ark of the covenant and carries the presence of God "

Why would you believe that?
Didn't Enoch, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, David, Daniel and others who "walked with God" have God with them?  God's presence was with people in the Old Testament. 
These people of faith had that faith because God's presence was not confined to the ark but was with people working on their hearts and minds and changing them into great men and women living for Him. 

God isn't confined to any place, He is Omnipresent.  He's not being carried around by believers.  He is WITH the believers carrying them through life.  He was with believers in the OT and He is with believers in modern times.
Yes, there were the prophets, but to the common person God was on the ark in the Temple. And the law was there in the ark. Anyone who approached God did so at their own peril. Recall the bells on the high priest when he went into the most holy once a year? Remember what happened to the God statue when the ark was stolen? Remember what happened the the man who touched the ark to steady it when it looked kind it would fall? God was a distant, violent and veangful being in those days. Why? I don't know. I would never presume to say that I know why God does what he does. The best of our intelligence is nothing in relation to a being who could create all that is.

All that said, I really enjoy reading your posts, as I do Johann's and Gregory's. Many of us are simply armchair historians, and/or theologians. Your input is highly valued by myself and a few others who respect your level of education in these areas.
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