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[Johann]

An interesting report on 3ABN:

http://www.cartereport.org/media-library/2012/it-biblically-correct-ordain-women-elders-and-pastors-our-church

[Daryl Fawcett]

Interesting response that he based on what is going on in China, which I see as an extreme circumstance that God is overlooking, in the same manner as God is presently overlooking those who believe Sunday is the Lord's day in that many sincere believers have died worshipping on Sunday and treating Saturday (the Sabbath) as any other day of the week, who will be resurrected at the 2nd Coming of Christ to learn about the Sabbath being Saturday, which they will then embrace.

[SDAminister]

An interesting report on 3ABN:

http://www.cartereport.org/media-library/2012/it-biblically-correct-ordain-women-elders-and-pastors-our-church

Again, where's the biblical proof? John would have us upset the order of the family as it gas existed from creation.
Carter's theology has been deviant for years on many doctrines. But, he's one of the few liberals who believes in public evangelism, I'll give him that.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I will give him that too in relation to his emphasis on public evangelism.

An interesting report on 3ABN:

http://www.cartereport.org/media-library/2012/it-biblically-correct-ordain-women-elders-and-pastors-our-church

Again, where's the biblical proof? John would have us upset the order of the family as it gas existed from creation.
Carter's theology has been deviant for years on many doctrines. But, he's one of the few liberals who believes in public evangelism, I'll give him that.

[Murcielago]

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

[Daryl Fawcett]

It could also be the reverse of what you posted here in that God wouldn't promote rebellion, as the two unions are presently doing with the other union deciding to wait until the rendering of the study report to the 2014 Fall Council, which will determine if it will be an agenda of the 2015 GC Session.  I think the other two unions should follow that other union's example.

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

[Murcielago]

It could also be the reverse of what you posted here in that God wouldn't promote rebellion, as the two unions are presently doing with the other union deciding to wait until the rendering of the study report to the 2014 Fall Council, which will determine if it will be an agenda of the 2015 GC Session.  I think the other two unions should follow that other union's example.

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

Ellen White also made it clear that it will always be easier to take the wide road that the majority will choose to take. No progress or advancement is made by decades of inaction. How many Chinese people would die in darkness if it were not for a few determined people who are moving forward in spite of the efforts of those who is seems place policy above the salvation of souls?

[Bob Pickle]

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

Do you have any quotes from Ellen White where she defined "conservative" in the way that you are suggesting? Today we mean certain things when we say "conservative" and "liberal." Any quotes that demonstrate that she used "conservative" to  mean the same thing that we mean today?

[Bob Pickle]

It could also be the reverse of what you posted here in that God wouldn't promote rebellion, as the two unions are presently doing with the other union deciding to wait until the rendering of the study report to the 2014 Fall Council, which will determine if it will be an agenda of the 2015 GC Session.  I think the other two unions should follow that other union's example.

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

Ellen White also made it clear that it will always be easier to take the wide road that the majority will choose to take. No progress or advancement is made by decades of inaction. How many Chinese people would die in darkness if it were not for a few determined people who are moving forward in spite of the efforts of those who is seems place policy above the salvation of souls?

So are you saying that 6 women out of 4000 being ordained is really making that much difference? So the women who are doing the work too in China but who refuse to be ordained are allowing Chinese people to die in darkness?

Somehow this makes no sense to me.

[Murcielago]

It could also be the reverse of what you posted here in that God wouldn't promote rebellion, as the two unions are presently doing with the other union deciding to wait until the rendering of the study report to the 2014 Fall Council, which will determine if it will be an agenda of the 2015 GC Session.  I think the other two unions should follow that other union's example.

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

Ellen White also made it clear that it will always be easier to take the wide road that the majority will choose to take. No progress or advancement is made by decades of inaction. How many Chinese people would die in darkness if it were not for a few determined people who are moving forward in spite of the efforts of those who is seems place policy above the salvation of souls?

So are you saying that 6 women out of 4000 being ordained is really making that much difference? So the women who are doing the work too in China but who refuse to be ordained are allowing Chinese people to die in darkness?

Somehow this makes no sense to me.

They are working as pastors, starting and running churches, which I understand is what people against the ordination if women seem to believe is against God's wishes.

[Bob Pickle]

It could also be the reverse of what you posted here in that God wouldn't promote rebellion, as the two unions are presently doing with the other union deciding to wait until the rendering of the study report to the 2014 Fall Council, which will determine if it will be an agenda of the 2015 GC Session.  I think the other two unions should follow that other union's example.

Ellen White predicted that that conservatives would try to hold back the work. She also said that there would be new light after she was gone. It is my opinion that these two go hand-in-hand. There are conservatives doing their best to hold back the work and prevent progress, but God is stronger and progress is taking place in spite of their most determined efforts. I see this as an example.

Ellen White also made it clear that it will always be easier to take the wide road that the majority will choose to take. No progress or advancement is made by decades of inaction. How many Chinese people would die in darkness if it were not for a few determined people who are moving forward in spite of the efforts of those who is seems place policy above the salvation of souls?

So are you saying that 6 women out of 4000 being ordained is really making that much difference? So the women who are doing the work too in China but who refuse to be ordained are allowing Chinese people to die in darkness?

Somehow this makes no sense to me.

They are working as pastors, starting and running churches, which I understand is what people against the ordination if women seem to believe is against God's wishes.

Do we really know what they are doing? Are the majority of these women, even those who refuse to be ordained, really organizing churches? Are some of the "pastors" really Bible workers? If they really are pastors per se, how many are leading out amongst groups composed only of women?

But regardless of all of that, since when do we base our positions on what people are doing rather than on what the Bible says? Most pastors in China worship on Sunday, I think it is fair to say. Should we therefore assume that God approves of worshiping on Sunday instead of the Sabbath?

[Murcielago]

Those who hold policy and procedure as superior to spreading the Gospel will do so. Those whose goal is spreading the Gospel will do do, and will not be held back by the others. Those following Christ will be in the minority, and those taking the wide road will be the majority, as Ellen White said.

[Dedication]

Do we really know what they are doing? Are the majority of these women, even those who refuse to be ordained, really organizing churches? Are some of the "pastors" really Bible workers? If they really are pastors per se, how many are leading out amongst groups composed only of women?

What is wrong with a woman or women organizing churches?  Why would it be wrong for women who want to take the message into a "dark area" to start a new company of believers.  In Acts 16:13-14 I see a group of women organizing a meeting place for Sabbath keepers to come and worship on the Sabbath.  These women, especially Lydia,  were obviously the leaders.  Paul, a man, joined them in their worship, so men were welcomed.
When she was baptized she led her whole household into the faith (I doubt her household was just women) .
In fact 16:40 shows us that Lydia was still the main leader, and there were "brethren", present.

[Bob Pickle]

What is wrong with a woman or women organizing churches?

Thus far I haven't tried to identify what "organizing churches" means. I certainly don't have any problem with a woman being the spark plug behind getting a Bible study group going.

When Paul and Barnabas were ordained, EGW states that they were then authorized to organize churches and baptize. I don't think they needed authorization to get a Bible study group going. So what exactly did this authorization allow them to do that they couldn't already do? Or how did the authorization make it different?

[Johann]

What is wrong with a woman or women organizing churches?

Thus far I haven't tried to identify what "organizing churches" means.

It is quite interesting to be so vehemently opposed to something that one has not even identified what it means. Also kind of an interesting argument that because Paul and Silas were authorized to do this, whatever it is, that since neither one of them was a female, then no female forever after cannot be authorized to do the same!

Should one base one's eternal salvation on being opposed to a female doing something Paul did?

I wonder what Paul would say about that?