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[Bob Pickle]

La Vonne Neff wrote two articles for the Review in 1976 about WO.

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19760805-V153-32__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=1

http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19760812-V153-33__B/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=6

The first article covers American Protestant denominations that do not ordain women, and why. The second covers American Protestant denominations that do ordain women, and why.

I find it interesting that the second article describes several different groups of denominations:

2. The Liberators. The second-largest American Protestant church, the 10-million-member United Methodist Church, joins with the United Church of Christ to lead this group. Sensitive to secular liberation movements, these churches promote liberation for oppressed minorities as well as for women. They make little reference to Scripture, although they express the belief that the gospel of Christ is a call to liberation. Problems of interpretation do not seem to bother them, perhaps because for them the Bible is the Word of God only in a general sense. (I should add that the opinion on liberation issues is often divided, particularly with regard to homosexuality. Although a gay caucus attended the recent United Methodist General Conference session, delegates continued to refuse to recognize homosexuality as a totally
acceptable alternate life-style.)

The United Methodists now have nearly 600 ordained women serving as pastors. At least that many more are studying theology in seminaries and graduate schools. Although female pastors still make up less than 5 per cent of their clergy, the number of United Methodist woman ministers is rapidly increasing.

3. The Cautious Liberators. The Lutheran Church in America, with more than 3 million members, leads this group. In many respects their publications resemble those of the Liberators (although I came across no reference to homosexuals in the Lutheran literature). Both emphasize social justice backed by affirmative-action programs to hire more women. The difference lies in their treatment of Scripture. The Lutheran Church in America at least touches on the Pauline statements about women in the church. Believing Paul's essential thrust to be best expressed by Galatians 3:28 ("there is neither male nor female"), they understand his pastoral judgments on the woman's place in light of the socio-religious conditions of the Hellenistic world. The Lutheran Church in America does not wish its 1970 decision to ordain women to be understood as acquiescence to social pressure, but as a response of the church to the need of the world.

4. The Exegetes. Another Lutheran group, the 2.5 million member American Lutheran Church, leads those who have made a thorough study of scriptural passages and have arrived at the conclusion that women should be ordained as ministers. American Lutherans take issue with the conclusions of their sister church, the Missouri Synod, in their interpretation of the created order, in their application of Paul's statements about women, and in their view of the nature of the ministry.

While the Missouri Synod believes that man was created superior to woman, the American Lutherans deny that this is implicit in Scripture. While the Missouri Synod sees Paul's counsel as divinely dictated decrees valid for all time, the American Lutherans see it as conditioned by time and place. In other words, the fact that first-century Corinthian women were told to be quiet in church does not necessarily mean that twentieth-century New Yorkers are meant to follow the same advice. The office of pastor, to the Missouri Synod Lutheran, carries overtones of leadership and authority. The American Lutheran prefers to emphasize the servanthood of the minister.

Is it not interesting that the Cautious Liberator, the Lutheran Church in America, and the Exegete, the American Lutheran Church, no longer exist but were merged into the ELCA? That the ELCA supports ordaining practicing homosexuals contrary to the position of the Lutheran Church in America? That the ELCA no longer tries to base its practice regarding the ordination of women on Scripture like the American Lutheran Church once did?

So if Seventh-day Adventism heads down this same road, what will it look like 30 years down the road? Like the ELCA? What safeguards will be in place to prevent such a drift into apostasy?

[Johann]

I am more interested in the divine plan as outlined by Ellen White, and how reluctant our brethren have been to follow it.  Why are we holding it back? Are we afraid Jesus would come too soon?

[Artiste]

Since the women's lib movement came on strongly in the 1970's, it is interesting to see the Liberators concerned with rights of oppressed minorities including women, also the mention of homosexuals back at that time interesting.

[Bob Pickle]

I am more interested in the divine plan as outlined by Ellen White, and how reluctant our brethren have been to follow it.  Why are we holding it back? Are we afraid Jesus would come too soon?

I guess, Johann, the only explanation I can think of is that some of the liberals in our midst don't want to accept what Ellen White describes as the divine plan for the roles of men and women, and thus they keep pushing for women's ordination despite the GC Session votes. It's the same way with other topics too, like evolution, gay rights, etc.

[Johann]

I am more interested in the divine plan as outlined by Ellen White, and how reluctant our brethren have been to follow it.  Why are we holding it back? Are we afraid Jesus would come too soon?

I guess, Johann, the only explanation I can think of is that some of the liberals in our midst don't want to accept what Ellen White describes as the divine plan for the roles of men and women, and thus they keep pushing for women's ordination despite the GC Session votes. It's the same way with other topics too, like evolution, gay rights, etc.

It could also be the old conservatives who are afraid Jesus would come back too soon for them to be ready, since they do not want to follow the divine plan outlined by Ellen White about 130 years ago.

[Bob Pickle]

I am more interested in the divine plan as outlined by Ellen White, and how reluctant our brethren have been to follow it.  Why are we holding it back? Are we afraid Jesus would come too soon?

I guess, Johann, the only explanation I can think of is that some of the liberals in our midst don't want to accept what Ellen White describes as the divine plan for the roles of men and women, and thus they keep pushing for women's ordination despite the GC Session votes. It's the same way with other topics too, like evolution, gay rights, etc.

It could also be the old conservatives who are afraid Jesus would come back too soon for them to be ready, since they do not want to follow the divine plan outlined by Ellen White about 130 years ago.

Maybe you could explain your thought a little more, Johann, because what you just wrote doesn't seem to make sense, unless you are calling the WO-pushing liberals "conservatives." You stated above, "I am more interested in the divine plan," and as you well know, the only divine plan outlined in the Bible and SoP regarding the roles of men and women is the very one that the WO crowd tend to be rejecting.