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[SDAminister]

Neophyte:
-A person who is new to a subject, skill, or belief.
-A new convert to a religion.

It is interesting to note that the SDA faith is now literally littered with neophytes. But these neophytes have been in the church for a long time, yet still act and think like those who are new converts.

The leader of this crowd is Elder Dan Jackson, a man of impeccable ignorance who, along with hundreds of other NAD administrators, educators, conference workers, and lay people, voted the E-60 policy in direct contravention to GC Policy. Except there was just one little problem (well, two):
1. The NAD is a division of the GC and therefore can't have policies largely different from other divisions of the GC.
2. The NAD does not have its own constituency. This gem of an item, known by almost everyone in the church EXCEPT, apparently, by those on the NAD Executive Committee. "The Administration of the North American Division takes full responsibility for failing to do
sufficient research into the constitutional issues that impacted our decisions. In bringing this
matter to the floor in 2010 and 2011 we were doing so under the assumption that the North American Division had a constituency separate and distinct from the General Conference. 
Unfortunately, we were wrong and we sincerely apologize."
http://www.adventistchurchconnect.com/site/1/docs/E-60_Update_Letter_Dan_Jackson.pdf

And now comes the rebuttal on Spectrum (http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2012/08/12/close-reading-general-conference-working-policy-ordination) to the GC regarding ordination, working policy etc.
Mind this: The writers of this piece are the very ones who, just months ago, had no idea, none! that the NAD does not have its own constituency! Imagine them trying now to convince the church of their take on GC policy. Shall the ignoramuses really presume to teach us?

It is these kinds of individuals of whom the Apostle Paul spoke when he said that there are "teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor wherof they affirm." 1 Timothy 1:7

The Spectrum writers continue: "Although the GC has formally considered and rejected proposals regarding the ordination of women at two GC sessions, there is no specific prohibition of such ordination in the General Conference Working Policy, the official, annually revised repository of GC policy."

Oh come on now!! I thought that in 1881 the GC authorized the ordination of women??? Why no mention of that? Is it because they (the CUC et al) were caught lying about what happened in 1881? How soon the cockroaches run from their previous arguments once the light gets turned on!

What? No more parading of Communist Party ordained ministers from China?

Continuing... "there is no specific prohibition of such ordination in the General Conference Working Policy." Well, is there a specific prohibition against ordaining Mormons? Trees? 2-year old children?

But is it really true.....?
In the NAD Working Policy it states under the section, L 35 20 Examination of Candidates "Wherever possible the candidate should plan to have his wife present for the examination, realizing that ordination affects
not only the individual but also the entire family."

It's beyond me as to how someone can be a woman and yet still be able to use the phrase "his wife" in reference to herself. Perhaps the neophyte legions can figure it out for us.

Part II coming soon....

SDAminister

[Artiste]

Neophyte:
-A person who is new to a subject, skill, or belief.
-A new convert to a religion.

It is interesting to note that the SDA faith is now literally littered with neophytes. But these neophytes have been in the church for a long time, yet still act and think like those who are new converts.

The leader of this crowd is Elder Dan Jackson, a man of impeccable ignorance who, along with hundreds of other NAD administrators, educators, conference workers, and lay people, voted the E-60 policy in direct contravention to GC Policy. Except there was just one little problem (well, two):
1. The NAD is a division of the GC and therefore can't have policies largely different from other divisions of the GC.
2. The NAD does not have its own constituency. This gem of an item, known by almost everyone in the church EXCEPT, apparently, by those on the NAD Executive Committee. "The Administration of the North American Division takes full responsibility for failing to do
sufficient research into the constitutional issues that impacted our decisions. In bringing this
matter to the floor in 2010 and 2011 we were doing so under the assumption that the North American Division had a constituency separate and distinct from the General Conference. 
Unfortunately, we were wrong and we sincerely apologize."
http://www.adventistchurchconnect.com/site/1/docs/E-60_Update_Letter_Dan_Jackson.pdf

And now comes the rebuttal on Spectrum (http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2012/08/12/close-reading-general-conference-working-policy-ordination) to the GC regarding ordination, working policy etc.
Mind this: The writers of this piece are the very ones who, just months ago, had no idea, none! that the NAD does not have its own constituency! Imagine them trying now to convince the church of their take on GC policy. Shall the ignoramuses really presume to teach us?

It is these kinds of individuals of whom the Apostle Paul spoke when he said that there are "teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor wherof they affirm." 1 Timothy 1:7

The Spectrum writers continue: "Although the GC has formally considered and rejected proposals regarding the ordination of women at two GC sessions, there is no specific prohibition of such ordination in the General Conference Working Policy, the official, annually revised repository of GC policy."

Oh come on now!! I thought that in 1881 the GC authorized the ordination of women??? Why no mention of that? Is it because they (the CUC et al) were caught lying about what happened in 1881? How soon the cockroaches run from their previous arguments once the light gets turned on!

What? No more parading of Communist Party ordained ministers from China?

Continuing... "there is no specific prohibition of such ordination in the General Conference Working Policy." Well, is there a specific prohibition against ordaining Mormons? Trees? 2-year old children?

But is it really true.....?
In the NAD Working Policy it states under the section, L 35 20 Examination of Candidates "Wherever possible the candidate should plan to have his wife present for the examination, realizing that ordination affects
not only the individual but also the entire family."

It's beyond me as to how someone can be a woman and yet still be able to use the phrase "his wife" in reference to herself. Perhaps the neophyte legions can figure it out for us.

Part II coming soon....

SDAminister

I entirely agree!

Very interesting point about "teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor wherof they affirm."  Timothy 1:7

I also agree about Dan Jackson.

(I wonder what would be in Part II...)

[Artiste]

I was always curious about the "constituency" argument.

Did the NAD really not know that they had no constituency?

Was this a technical item brought up by the GC to nullify the NAD action?

[Bob Pickle]

I was always curious about the "constituency" argument.

Did the NAD really not know that they had no constituency?

Was this a technical item brought up by the GC to nullify the NAD action?

Anyone who reads through the GC or NAD Working Policy should pick up on this point since it is plainly stated, from what I recall.

[Johann]

1. constituency -- the body of voters who elect a representative for their area

If NAD has no constituency, then the members of Seventh-day Adventist Churches in North America have no vote! So you did not vote at your Conference session?

Technically, Division administrators are elected at the GC session by the votes of all of the delegates. Does that mean they have no authority?

[SDAminister]

1. constituency -- the body of voters who elect a representative for their area

If NAD has no constituency, then the members of Seventh-day Adventist Churches in North America have no vote! So you did not vote at your Conference session?

Technically, Division administrators are elected at the GC session by the votes of all of the delegates. Does that mean they have no authority?

Johann,
Your comment indicates to all that you still don't understand how the SDA church is organized.

[Dedication]

Definition of CONSTITUENCY

1

 a: a body of citizens entitled to elect a representative (as to a legislative or executive position) b: the residents in an electoral district c: an electoral district

2

 a: a group or body that patronizes, supports, or offers representation
 b: the people involved in or served by an organization (as a business or institution)


The following is from adventist.org  which describes the levels of constituency.

1. The local church made up of individual believers
2.The local conference, or local field/mission, made up of a number of local churches in a state, province, or territory
3.The union conference, or union field/mission, made up of conferences or fields within a larger territory (often a grouping of states or a a whole country)
4.The General Conference represents the worldwide expression of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Its constituent membership is defined in the Constitution of the General Conference. To facilitate its worldwide activity, the General Conference has established regional offices, known as divisions of the General Conference, which have been assigned, by action of the General Conference Executive Committee at Annual Councils, general administrative oversight responsibilities for designated groups of unions and other church units within specific geographical areas.


Each level is "representative," that is it reflects a democratic process of formation and election. Local churches elect their own officers and church boards by majority voting. Churches elect delegates to the conferences which meet "in session" every two or three years. Executive authority between sessions is exercised by the Conference Executive Committee and the executive officers (normally President, Secretary and Treasurer), all of whom are elected by the session.

A similar process operates for Union sessions usually 5 years and General Conference sessions, at which times officers and committees are elected, reports given and policies decided.

Each constituent level of the church operates a variety of institutions.

When differences arise in or between organizations and institutions, appeal to the next higher organization is proper until it reaches the General Conference in session, or the Executive Committee at the Annual Council. During the interim between these sessions, the Executive Committee shall constitute the body of final authority on all questions where a difference of viewpoint may develop. When organizations review decisions of other organizations, they do not assume responsibility for the liabilities of any other organization.

So it seems to me that every level has a constituency, but when a question involves going against a decision made by a higher level constituency, the  lower level doesn't have a constituency with the power to over rule it. 

[Johann]

1. constituency -- the body of voters who elect a representative for their area

If NAD has no constituency, then the members of Seventh-day Adventist Churches in North America have no vote! So you did not vote at your Conference session?

Technically, Division administrators are elected at the GC session by the votes of all of the delegates. Does that mean they have no authority?

Johann,
Your comment indicates to all that you still don't understand how the SDA church is organized.

How? I have been a delegate at all levels within the SDA denomination beginning about 1960 until the last one in 2012. GC, 3 different unions, at least 3 different conferences. What have I missed? What secret information do you have that is not made known to delegates and board members? I even had a course in Church Organization in academy, and then again in college and seminary, plus a number of seminars connected with workers meetings. What have I missed?

I have also had an office in two different countries

I see that Ulicia has now posted a good definition, although it does not contain all the details in how things function.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I have been a delegate at both the local conference and local union level, but not at the GC level.

[SDAminister]

Definition of CONSTITUENCY

1

 a: a body of citizens entitled to elect a representative (as to a legislative or executive position) b: the residents in an electoral district c: an electoral district

2

 a: a group or body that patronizes, supports, or offers representation
 b: the people involved in or served by an organization (as a business or institution)


The following is from adventist.org  which describes the levels of constituency.

1. The local church made up of individual believers
2.The local conference, or local field/mission, made up of a number of local churches in a state, province, or territory
3.The union conference, or union field/mission, made up of conferences or fields within a larger territory (often a grouping of states or a a whole country)
4.The General Conference represents the worldwide expression of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Its constituent membership is defined in the Constitution of the General Conference. To facilitate its worldwide activity, the General Conference has established regional offices, known as divisions of the General Conference, which have been assigned, by action of the General Conference Executive Committee at Annual Councils, general administrative oversight responsibilities for designated groups of unions and other church units within specific geographical areas.


Each level is "representative," that is it reflects a democratic process of formation and election. Local churches elect their own officers and church boards by majority voting. Churches elect delegates to the conferences which meet "in session" every two or three years. Executive authority between sessions is exercised by the Conference Executive Committee and the executive officers (normally President, Secretary and Treasurer), all of whom are elected by the session.

A similar process operates for Union sessions usually 5 years and General Conference sessions, at which times officers and committees are elected, reports given and policies decided.

Each constituent level of the church operates a variety of institutions.

When differences arise in or between organizations and institutions, appeal to the next higher organization is proper until it reaches the General Conference in session, or the Executive Committee at the Annual Council. During the interim between these sessions, the Executive Committee shall constitute the body of final authority on all questions where a difference of viewpoint may develop. When organizations review decisions of other organizations, they do not assume responsibility for the liabilities of any other organization.

So it seems to me that every level has a constituency, but when a question involves going against a decision made by a higher level constituency, the  lower level doesn't have a constituency with the power to over rule it.

Well said.

[Daryl Fawcett]

It would be a good time to point out that the Divisions are not a separate level in that they don't have their own constituency, but are rather a part of the General Conference itself.

[Johann]

It would be a good time to point out that the Divisions are not a separate level in that they don't have their own constituency, but are rather a part of the General Conference itself.

It works the other way as well. If the responsibility within a certain area has been given to a lower level, the higher level, such as the General Conference has no business interferring with how things are done at the lower level, unless it is an utter emergency.

The General Conference has given the various Divisions the responsibility to work within their own territory, regardless if you want to call that the constituency or not. Each Division has its own institutions and unions. It will never be the responsibility of the Division in South Africa how the work is done in Greenland, where we, unfortunately, only have a handful of active Adventists, the last I knew. One of them is an old friend, and a present friend on FaceBook.