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[Battle Creek]

Questions answered:

http://session.adventistfaith.org/responses

[Bob Pickle]

Questions answered:

http://session.adventistfaith.org/responses

"A: The Seventh-day Adventist Church has no policy or doctrine restricting ordination to men, though it is a long-standing practice."

In light of GC WP L 45 and L 50, would we not call the above statement an outright lie?

If it isn't a lie because it is an unintentional mistake, why in the world would the Pacific Union have someone that uninformed write up a FAQ page on the topic?

[Murcielago]

Questions answered:

http://session.adventistfaith.org/responses

A good, thoughtful, balanced answer in the midst of all the rage and furious cries for retribution.

[Artiste]

Questions answered:

http://session.adventistfaith.org/responses

A good, thoughtful, balanced answer in the midst of all the rage and furious cries for retribution.

Interesting that you like their answers, Murcielago.

[Artiste]

We are involved in this discussion because of the unique nature of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, where no level of the church has final authority for everything.

I'm confused.

I thought Ellen White said that the vote of the World Church in the General Conference session was the final authority.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Bob,

Can you quote GC WP L 45 and L 50 so we can compare it with their response?

Questions answered:

http://session.adventistfaith.org/responses

"A: The Seventh-day Adventist Church has no policy or doctrine restricting ordination to men, though it is a long-standing practice."

In light of GC WP L 45 and L 50, would we not call the above statement an outright lie?

If it isn't a lie because it is an unintentional mistake, why in the world would the Pacific Union have someone that uninformed write up a FAQ page on the topic?

[Bob Pickle]

We are involved in this discussion because of the unique nature of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, where no level of the church has final authority for everything.

I'm confused.

I thought Ellen White said that the vote of the World Church in the General Conference session was the final authority.

GC Working Policy says that it is.

B 10 20 General Conference and its Divisions— ...

3. Highest Organization—The General Conference is the highest organization in the administration of the worldwide work of the Church, and is authorized by its Constitution to create subordinate organizations to promote specific interests in various sections of the world; it is therefore understood that all subordinate organizations and institutions throughout the world will recognize the General Conference in session as the highest authority under God. When differences arise in or between organizations and institutions on matters not already addressed in the Constitution and Bylaws, in the policies of the General Conference, or in its Executive Committee actions at Annual Councils, appeal to the next higher organization is proper until it reaches the General Conference in session, or the Executive Committee in Annual Council. During the interim between these sessions, the Executive Committee shall constitute the body of final authority on all questions where a difference of viewpoint may develop, whose decisions shall control on such controverted points, but whose decision may be reviewed at a session of the General Conference or an Annual Council of the Executive Committee. (See also B 40 10.)

...

B 15 General Conference Working Policy

B 15 05 Authoritative Administrative Voice of the Church—The General Conference Working Policy contains the Constitution and Bylaws of the General Conference, the Mission Statement and the accumulated policies adopted by General Conference Sessions and Annual Councils of the General Conference Executive Committee. It is, therefore, the authoritative voice of the Church in all matters pertaining to the mission and to the administration of the work of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination in all parts of the world.

B 15 10 Adherence to Policy Required—1.The General Conference Working Policy shall be strictly adhered to by all organizations in every part of the world field. The work in every organization shall be administered in full harmony with the policies of the General Conference and of the divisions respectively. No departure from these policies shall be made without prior approval from the General Conference Executive Committee, except as stated below. The division committee is the authorized body which acts for the General Conference Executive Committee in the respective divisions. All conference, mission, or institutional administrators shall cooperate in maintaining these policies as they affect the work in their respective organizations. Only thus can a spirit of close cooperation and unity be maintained in the work of the Church in all parts of the world field. ...

Edited because I may have misread what the original quote was trying to say, though I think the affect of the words is about the same.

[Bob Pickle]

Bob,

Can you quote GC WP L 45 and L 50 so we can compare it with their response?

Questions answered:

http://session.adventistfaith.org/responses

"A: The Seventh-day Adventist Church has no policy or doctrine restricting ordination to men, though it is a long-standing practice."

In light of GC WP L 45 and L 50, would we not call the above statement an outright lie?

If it isn't a lie because it is an unintentional mistake, why in the world would the Pacific Union have someone that uninformed write up a FAQ page on the topic?

Here it is:

L 45 Procedure in Authorizing Ordination

...

L 45 10 Ordination Ceremony—Time and Place—The time and place for the ordination ceremony, including the examination of the candidate, with his wife, shall be arranged by the approving organization in counsel with the union.

...

L 50 Examination of Candidates for Ordination

1. Before any ordination is carried out, there shall be careful, unhurried, and prayerful examination of the candidates as to their fitness for the work of the ministry. The results of their labor as licentiates should be reviewed, and the examination should cover the great fundamental facts of the gospel. Before the church sets a man apart by ordination he should
have given satisfactory evidence of: ....

Current NAD WP does not use the word "man" in L 50, but still refers to the candidate's wife in L 45 10.

[Artiste]

That's pretty plain.

I wonder how the Pacific Union Conference can get away with saying things like that.

I know a lot of people at the PUC office there in Westlake...

[Bob Pickle]

That's pretty plain.

I wonder how the Pacific Union Conference can get away with saying things like that.

I know a lot of people at the PUC office there in Westlake...

Why not call them up and ask them?

[Artiste]

You get nowhere trying to talk with them, unless one of them decides to explain to you how everyone knows that evolution is the only thing that makes sense, and that the churches in the union can preach and do whatever they want to.

[Artiste]

You get nowhere trying to talk with them, unless one of them decides to explain to you how everyone knows that evolution is the only thing that makes sense, and that the churches in the union can preach and do whatever they want to.

The various Union and local Conference officials go to some of the same churches that I do; they aren't the type of people that you would want to approach with any of these questions.

(...what are you...some kind of idiot to be asking questions like that...not politically correct)

[Bob Pickle]

There was a guy at Southern in 1981/1982 that went around asking questions, taping the answers, and then gave the tape to church officials.

But before you think about recording a conversation in California, read http://www.rcfp.org/can-we-tape/california

[Artiste]

From Spectrum, today:

Spectrum has received many unconfirmed reports from around the North American Division that in a Thursday teleconference with union officials, Wilson plans to discuss potential sanctions against unions viewed as being out of compliance with the General Conference Working Policy.

[Dedication]

L 45 Procedure in Authorizing Ordination

...

L 45 10 Ordination Ceremony—Time and Place—The time and place for the ordination ceremony, including the examination of the candidate, with his wife, shall be arranged by the approving organization in counsel with the union.

...

L 50 Examination of Candidates for Ordination

1. Before any ordination is carried out, there shall be careful, unhurried, and prayerful examination of the candidates as to their fitness for the work of the ministry. The results of their labor as licentiates should be reviewed, and the examination should cover the great fundamental facts of the gospel. Before the church sets a man apart by ordination he should
have given satisfactory evidence of: ....

That is practice not policy or doctrine.
There is nothing in those statements that show it is policy or doctrine, it only shows that the normal practice is that the candidate be male.

It is kind of the same as one of the  arguments often made where Paul says that a bishop is to be the husband of one wife, that it proves it is only men qualifed for that position.

But think of the tenth commandment.
Is the tenth commandment ONLY for men.  Is it OK for women to covet.  Are only men commanded not to covert.
--Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife --

or is it showing that people simply talked using the male gender even when it could mean all.

 I think I will leave this issue -- the main reason I got involved is because its about the only thing happening on this forum. 
Personally -- I will trust God in this.  If He wants women to minister for Him in more proment ways, who are we to fight against Him.
If it is against Gods will, that will manifest itself as well.

More important -- the sun is setting, Sabbath is coming, and I need some spiritual food!