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[Bob Pickle]

In spite of a clear and heartfelt appeal from Ted Wilson, world president of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the Columbia Union Conference voted on July 29, 2012, to ordain women as pastors.

This historic action creates a doctrinal rift between the eight Mid-Atlantic conferences and the majority of the world church. Elder Wilson cautioned this divisive vote could produce “many grave consequences” and lead to fragmentation and disunity.

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

The Pacific Union Conference is scheduled to consider a similar vote on August 19 in Southern California. If you are opposed to North American Conferences separating theologically from the world church:

• Please review the material here at Christ or Culture
• Sign the petition
• Forward to loyal SDA friends

The petition and growing body of information will be presented to all the NAD and GC leaders prior to the August 19 vote.

Visit Christ or Culture for continuing updates …

[Murcielago]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

[SDAminister]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

Murcielago,
I would be interested if you or anyone else could present the documentation on the December 5, 1881 vote where the GC in session approved the ordination of women. This would go a long way towards clearing the air about our church's past history on this issue.
Much thanks,
SDAminister

[Murcielago]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

Murcielago,
I would be interested if you or anyone else could present the documentation on the December 5, 1881 vote where the GC in session approved the ordination of women. This would go a long way towards clearing the air about our church's past history on this issue.
Much thanks,
SDAminister

And how about any documentation regarding EGW, and ither women of that time being ordained pastors? Would that also clear up anything?

[Bob Pickle]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

Murcielago,
I would be interested if you or anyone else could present the documentation on the December 5, 1881 vote where the GC in session approved the ordination of women. This would go a long way towards clearing the air about our church's past history on this issue.
Much thanks,
SDAminister

And how about any documentation regarding EGW, and ither women of that time being ordained pastors? Would that also clear up anything?

One of my complaints has been the misinformation going around in support of WO. The alleged 1881 vote is just one example. Out of 40 resolutions presented to that GC Session, the only one not voted was the one in favor of WO. The CUC ad hoc committee report stated that it was actually voted, I pointed out the problem to J. David Newman, he acknowledged the mistake, he wrote the chairman of the committee requesting that the report be corrected, and the report was corrected.

I do not know of one single woman that was ordained, but would appreciate being given some actual names to research the facts about.

[Gregory]

Was Ellen White ordained?

Elle White was given tehe credentials of an ordained minister for years.  She was listed as such in the official records of the denominaiton.  She was never ordained in a public (or private) ceremoney in whichothers laid their hands upon her.

So, those are the facts.  Nowthe question is, how do you intrepret them.

1)  I say she was ordained because she had the credentials.

2) Others say she was not because there never was any kind of a ceremoney in which people laid hands upon her.


Take your pick.  Both sides have valid points.

[Artiste]

Was Ellen White ordained?

Elle White was given tehe credentials of an ordained minister for years.  She was listed as such in the official records of the denominaiton.  She was never ordained in a public (or private) ceremoney in whichothers laid their hands upon her.

So, those are the facts.  Nowthe question is, how do you intrepret them.

1)  I say she was ordained because she had the credentials.

2) Others say she was not because there never was any kind of a ceremoney in which people laid hands upon her.


Take your pick.  Both sides have valid points.

You are ignoring the part where the term ordained was crossed out on one of the her certificates, and also on a form that she had to fill out she put an "X" in the space where it asked if the person was ordained, thus indicating that she did not consider herself an ordained minister.

Is there some reason you left those facts out?

[SDAminister]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

Murcielago,
I would be interested if you or anyone else could present the documentation on the December 5, 1881 vote where the GC in session approved the ordination of women. This would go a long way towards clearing the air about our church's past history on this issue.
Much thanks,
SDAminister

And how about any documentation regarding EGW, and ither women of that time being ordained pastors? Would that also clear up anything?

All documentation helps. But could we start with the 1881 vote please? Otherwise, we are dependent upon what you twice referred to as "my understanding". Question is: How did you come to understand these things?

Go ahead and either have you or someone else show us what happened in 1881. Is it as you say it is?

[Johann]

Some refer to the wording as it came from the resolutions committee, that it be voted that women could be ordained. As is done on occasions, someone moved that certain items first go through a committee, and that was voted, as I understand it. The other resolutions went through their committees and were approved by the general assembly with the wording from the committees, but the motion of ordaining women never came back to the floor. Some have suggested that the matter is still with the committee. It has often been said that the way to get rid of something is to refer it to a committee, because it can remain there forever.

[Artiste]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

Murcielago, these historical points have been discussed ad nauseam on other sites.

You might want to check some of them out before just regurgitating liberal SDA talking points.

See the info in my above post on Ellen White's "ordination".

In December, 1881, the GC definitely did not approve women's ordination.  Check your sources again.

[Johann]

Was Ellen White ordained?

Elle White was given tehe credentials of an ordained minister for years.  She was listed as such in the official records of the denominaiton.  She was never ordained in a public (or private) ceremoney in whichothers laid their hands upon her.

So, those are the facts.  Nowthe question is, how do you intrepret them.

1)  I say she was ordained because she had the credentials.

2) Others say she was not because there never was any kind of a ceremoney in which people laid hands upon her.


Take your pick.  Both sides have valid points.

You are ignoring the part where the term ordained was crossed out on one of the her certificates, and also on a form that she had to fill out she put an "X" in the space where it asked if the person was ordained, thus indicating that she did not consider herself an ordained minister.

Is there some reason you left those facts out?

The card where the word "ordained" is crossed out, is one exhibition at Elmshaven, where I saw it last time I was there. It is remarkable, that while other items on this card is filled in with ink, the word ordained has a very thin line over it, not in ink like the other items, but a very weak pencil. Since nothing is crossed out on the other two copies still available of the card, there is a strong suspicion that that pencil line has been added at a much later date.

EGW has written elsewhere when and where she was ordained by God.

[Murcielago]

Founded in part by Ellen White, the Adventist Church has always supported women being active in a broad spectrum of ministry. Yet the Sunday vote represents a major departure from the historic Adventist position that the Scriptures only support men being ordained as pastors.

Is Amazing Facts being entirely honest in this statement? From my understanding of church history, the SDA church historically ordained women, including Ellen White, and this practice continued until after her death. It is also my understanding that on December 5, 1881, the GC in session approved the ordination of women. It would then seem that Amazing Facts has their information inverted.

Murcielago, these historical points have been discussed ad nauseam on other sites.

You might want to check some of them out before just regurgitating liberal SDA talking points.

See the info in my above post on Ellen White's "ordination".

In December, 1881, the GC definitely did not approve women's ordination.  Check your sources again.

I will.

[christian]

Was Ellen White ordained?

Elle White was given tehe credentials of an ordained minister for years.  She was listed as such in the official records of the denominaiton.  She was never ordained in a public (or private) ceremoney in whichothers laid their hands upon her.

So, those are the facts.  Nowthe question is, how do you intrepret them.

1)  I say she was ordained because she had the credentials.

2) Others say she was not because there never was any kind of a ceremoney in which people laid hands upon her.


Take your pick.  Both sides have valid points.

You are ignoring the part where the term ordained was crossed out on one of the her certificates, and also on a form that she had to fill out she put an "X" in the space where it asked if the person was ordained, thus indicating that she did not consider herself an ordained minister.

Is there some reason you left those facts out?

The card where the word "ordained" is crossed out, is one exhibition at Elmshaven, where I saw it last time I was there. It is remarkable, that while other items on this card is filled in with ink, the word ordained has a very thin line over it, not in ink like the other items, but a very weak pencil. Since nothing is crossed out on the other two copies still available of the card, there is a strong suspicion that that pencil line has been added at a much later date.

EGW has written elsewhere when and where she was ordained by God.

So let me understand this properly if I might. Evil men in the conference years later marked out the word ordained, to keep women from being ordained at a later date? Dog if only they had used an thick ink instead of a pencil. Do you have any idea who did this dastardly deed?

[Gregory]

Artiste asked:

You are ignoring the part where the term ordained was crossed out on one of the her certificates, and also on a form that she had to fill out she put an "X" in the space where it asked if the person was ordained, thus indicating that she did not consider herself an ordained minister.

Is there some reason you left those facts out?

You correctly say that the word "ordained" is crossed out on one of the credentials that exists.  It is not known as to who crossed that word out.  Ther is no evidence to support the idea that EGW crossed it out.  Just as there is no evidence to suplport the idea that someone else crossed it out.  Someone, who is not knwon crossed it out.  That is all we know.

So, as ther is no evidence as to who crossed it ou, the fact that it is crossed out has little to know value.  Probably the best that could be said is that some unknown person wanted to make a statement that EGW asas not ordained.  IOW, they took the position that as she was not ordained in a ceremony where people laid hands on her, she was not ordained in their thinking.

Also, we donot know the time when that word was crossed out.  It could have been crossed out after her deathl.

What we do know is that the word "ordained" was crossed out on only one of the cirtificates that we have.  It was not crosssed out on any of the others, of which I beleive we have two.  So, if you say that EGW crossed it out, I would ask you why did she not cross that word out out on the others?

[Gregory]

Christian asked:

So let me understand this properly if I might. Evil men in the conference years later marked out the word ordained, to keep women from being ordained at a later date? Dog if only they had used an thick ink instead of a pencil. Do you have any idea who did this dastardly deed?

In my opinion, there is to much attributing malice and evil intent in the posts that are being made here.

Let us say that someone other than EGW crossed the word"ordained" out on the one certificate of the three (?) that we have.  O.K., so what?   If that happened, there is no evidence to support the idea that the person who did it was evil.  In fact, there is no evidence to support the idea that the one who did it was a male.  It could have been a female.  There is no evidence to support the idea that the one who did  it did so in an attempt to keep women from being ordained in 2012, or any other time.

Whoever did it could simply have done so because they personally believed that she was not ordained.

Folks, we ned to stop attributing malice and evil when there is no evidence to support the idea of malice and evil.