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[Artiste]

In desiring to be respectful to the office of the Seventh-day Adventist Church North American Division President, I am starting with his name, but the same could be said of other North American church leaders under him:  The "big tent" approach brings together such unlikely proponents of opposite beliefs as La Sierra religion and biology professors advocating theistic evolution and the religiously super-conservative 3ABN.  The big tent allows them both to coexist in Adventism.

Dan Jackson has demonstrated this by his meeting with the La Sierra faculty, defending them verbally against David Asscherick's and Jay Gallimore's efforts to combat the encroachment of evolutionary teaching, with the resulting scandal forcing several people out of La Sierra University.

Dan Jackson then spoke at a Friday night 3ABN event and is currently scheduled to appear with Danny Shelton, Yvonne Lewis, and some other 3ABN people at a New York camp meeting.

The keepers of the "big tent" apparently waive the necessity for belief in scripture in one case, and the need for moral and upright behavior in the other case.

How long will Adventism last under this strain?
     

[Artiste]

I mentioned the scandal involving the loss of several La Sierra faculty members over the teaching of evolution.

3ABN's scandal (or rather the latest 3ABN scandal) is now unfolding with the lawsuit against 3ABN and imprisoned pedophile Tommy Shelton (brother of Danny Shelton) for 3ABN's role in covering up child molestation activities.

[Artiste]

I mentioned the scandal involving the loss of several La Sierra faculty members over the teaching of evolution.

3ABN's scandal (or rather the latest 3ABN scandal) is now unfolding with the lawsuit against 3ABN and imprisoned pedophile Tommy Shelton (brother of Danny Shelton) for 3ABN's role in covering up child molestation activities.

The civil suit against 3ABN is currently in the discovery phase.

[Johann]

After I composed the previous post I talked to a sixth victim whose life is a wreck. She was "raped" and made pregnant by a married church official. Sure he lost his job, but what does that help her? Fortunately some unofficial deaconesses are helping her a lot so that she can attend church.

Why are so many church officials protecting each other? Teaching, with Bible in their hands, that, after all, a woman is a lower creature.

[Artiste]

I notice that so far no one has referenced the bombshell announcement of the General Conference appeal to the Unions not to take their own unilateral actions in women's ordination that was released last evening.

What effect does this have on the "big tent" situation?

Interestingly enough, Dan Jackson has joined with the rest of the 13 division leaders in supporting this.

As Spectrum pointed out, this is a reversal for him from his last statement or letter on the subject for the NAD division.

[Artiste]

Interestingly enough, Dan Jackson has joined with the rest of the 13 division leaders in supporting this.

I think the appeal from the GC for unity, if successful in being implemented, would go a long way toward fixing the big tent situation.

[Johann]

Big tent agreement?

When Doug Batchelor visited the Geneva area on the Switz French border last March official church authorities refused to announce the meetings by such a "heretic" in the local churches, so there was no SDA support. Are the new converts baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church or  the Seventh-day Batchelor church?

I have a notion the main point of disagreement is over the ordination of women, where the Seventh-day Adventist Bible teachers and leadership find no support in Scripture nor the Spirit of Prophecy for the refusal to ordain women.

Where is the big tent?

[Johann]

Interestingly enough, Dan Jackson has joined with the rest of the 13 division leaders in supporting this.

I think the appeal from the GC for unity, if successful in being implemented, would go a long way toward fixing the big tent situation.

It is wrong to conclude that now all of the Division presidents agree that women should not be ordained. They are only agreeing to give the question more time before all sensible church leaders will adhere to the Ellen G. White counsel that both men and women should be ordained for the ministry.

[HaroldT]

>>the Ellen G. White counsel that both men and women should be ordained for the ministry.>>by Johann

Where do we find this counsel?

[Johann]

>>the Ellen G. White counsel that both men and women should be ordained for the ministry.>>by Johann

Where do we find this counsel?

He did not have his reference with him, but here is one I can think of:

“it is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God.” (Review & Herald, January 15, 1901)

You can be sure there might be an avalanche of excuses people will use to avoid following the directions. It has become a "rich" tradition with us. Just following anything the Spirit of Prophecy advocates, except what goes against my preconceived convictions, no matter where they come from.

[Bob Pickle]

>>the Ellen G. White counsel that both men and women should be ordained for the ministry.>>by Johann

Where do we find this counsel?

He can't find it.

Note that the only reference Johann gave you in support of his claim is a reference that says nothing about ordination, and says nothing about "gospel ministers" as we understand the term today.

[Bob Pickle]

When Doug Batchelor visited the Geneva area on the Switz French border last March official church authorities refused to announce the meetings by such a "heretic" in the local churches, so there was no SDA support. Are the new converts baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church or  the Seventh-day Batchelor church?

I have a notion the main point of disagreement is over the ordination of women, where the Seventh-day Adventist Bible teachers and leadership find no support in Scripture nor the Spirit of Prophecy for the refusal to ordain women.

If your speculation is correct, then perhaps church discipline would be in order, since Batchelor's position is held by a majority of Seventh-day Adventists. Tests of fellowship are not supposed to be determined by a few church leaders in France and Switzerland, tests that would exclude a majority of Seventh-day Adventists from fellowship.

[Johann]

>>the Ellen G. White counsel that both men and women should be ordained for the ministry.>>by Johann

Where do we find this counsel?

He can't find it.

Note that the only reference Johann gave you in support of his claim is a reference that says nothing about ordination, and says nothing about "gospel ministers" as we understand the term today.

This is a based explanation in my book.

[tinka]

When Doug Batchelor visited the Geneva area on the Switz French border last March official church authorities refused to announce the meetings by such a "heretic" in the local churches, so there was no SDA support. Are the new converts baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church or  the Seventh-day Batchelor church?

I have a notion the main point of disagreement is over the ordination of women, where the Seventh-day Adventist Bible teachers and leadership find no support in Scripture nor the Spirit of Prophecy for the refusal to ordain women.

If your speculation is correct, then perhaps church discipline would be in order, since Batchelor's position is held by a majority of Seventh-day Adventists. Tests of fellowship are not supposed to be determined by a few church leaders in France and Switzerland, tests that would exclude a majority of Seventh-day Adventists from fellowship.

Last Sabbath (Mike Thompson) rotating teacher with D. Batchelor's gave the best and most inspired explanation of "why no women ordination that was surely perfected by Holy Spirit. Everyone should have heard it and great Amen's came from audience. It was truthful, to the point, and without a doubt that all SDA should realize and abide in unity. But of course Satan does not want that to happen. Thompson left no where to go with it.

[Gregory]

Batchelor's position is held by a majority of Seventh-day Adventists.

I Do not believe that any poll has ever been taken on this position in the general SDA denominational membership.

I would say that is some parts of the world, a majority of members probably support the ordination of females, although I am not certain as to how big that majority is.  I would also say that in other sections of the world, a majority probably support the ordination of males, only.

Yes, leaders in the SDA Chruch, meeting in a General Conference session have voted in certain wasys.  That no more means that the members whom they represent hold a view similar to their vote than one could say that when the College of Cardinals vote to elect a new Pope their votes represent the membership of the Roman Catholic Chruch.