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[Johann]

Three Views

From Thursday to Last Sunday we had our triennial conference session to which both my wife and I were delegates. Many things were discussed at the meetings, and yet there was no discussion on the question of the ordination of women. Such discussions occurred in private in the hall or outside  in the sunshine in between the meetings where no vote was taken.

I sensed there were three views among those delegates I happened to meet at such discussions, and also among church members elsewhere.

1. A large number seem to be impressed the Holy Spirit is guiding  the Church in the clear understanding of Scripture that women should be ordained to the ministry in these last days as a fulfillment of prophecy.

2. A strong minority here is opposed to this view as they interpret the same texts as opposed to ordaining woman.

3. A third group see that those texts can be interpreted either way and therefore realize they create a conflict in the church. They think that since the texts can be interpreted either way it could not be  a question of right or wrong, but must be a question solved by the work of the Holy Spirit to determine what will be the greatest benefit to the Church.

From the Sabbath School lesson for today we learn that there can easily be a difference of opinions in certain areas without creating problems in the Church. The main question is that the Gospel be proclaimed unhindered by different opinions that are not an issue. Since our Brethren interpret the texts and Ellen White in different ways in this area of ordaining women we must not let the question divide us, but we must rather unite in our only task before the Coming of Jesus.

[tinka]

Three Views

From Thursday to Last Sunday we had our triennial conference session to which both my wife and I were delegates. Many things were discussed at the meetings, and yet there was no discussion on the question of the ordination of women. Such discussions occurred in private in the hall or outside (now isn't that pretty sneaky behind backs or in private) in the sunshine in between the meetings where no vote was taken. ( Doesn't make any difference where Adversary starts opposition, in fact it's the best place and time for searching followers of such suggestions.)

I sensed there were three views among those delegates I happened to meet at such discussions, ( does this pattern ever hit wrong button for you?? Sure you were there and no doubt were the head of it.)and also among church members elsewhere.

1. A large number seem to be impressed the Holy Spirit is guiding  the Church in the clear understanding of Scripture that women should be ordained to the ministry in these last days as a fulfillment of prophecy.

This little story is of your opinion and if a large number that believes that are evidently influenced very easily by the instigator of "change".

2. A strong minority here is opposed to this view as they interpret the same texts as opposed to ordaining woman. (Yes there seems to be a few that do follow the correct directions of Holy Spirit, SoP.)

3. A third group see that those texts can be interpreted either way and therefore realize they create a conflict in the church. ( One part of this is right, they have sense not to create confusion in church when they ride the fence and too lazy to effort the truth.) They think that since the texts can be interpreted either way it could not be  a question of right or wrong, ( There is the problem, THEY THINK! WITH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF READING THEIR OWN DECISIONS) but must be a question solved by the work of the Holy Spirit (  it already has been determined by HOLY SPIRIT )to determine what will be the greatest benefit to the Church. (Are they or you writing new Scripture for this new age??)

From the Sabbath School lesson for today we learn that there can easily be a difference of opinions in certain areas without creating problems in the Church. (Then you need to take this as not to create confusion as the one group claims.!)  but see you can't and are obsessed with this or you would not have been there doing your thing the same on these post to convince this obsession The main question is that the Gospel be proclaimed unhindered by different opinions (Hows that possible and still come out?)that are not an issue. Since our Brethren interpret the texts and Ellen White in different ways in this area of ordaining women we must not let the question divide us, but we must rather unite in our only task before the Coming of Jesus.

COMPROMISE??  COMPROMISE WHAT?? HOW CAN YOU UNITE WITH ALL DIFFERENT  OPINIONS?

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Edited to remove inappropriate content.  Read the forum rules, please!!

[Johann]

I was not giving my opinion, only reporting what is taking place among members of my church and how different members of my church evaluate the meaning of Scripture.

I reported three different viewpoints. They would never be all mine.

[tinka]

Deleted entire inappropriate post.

[Snoopy]

Thank you for posting this, Johann.  It is very sad to me to observe that some folks are more concerned with being "right" than with the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

[Johann]

Actually the Sabbath School lesson for next sabbath will also be dealing with thie question. I look forward to discussing the subject with the church where I will also be preaching next Sabbath. Come and join us? Some of the members might agree with you.

I try to let the members present the lesson as an answer to my questions. But they had better verify their views with solid references to Scripture. Are you prepared?

[Bob Pickle]

Three Views

From Thursday to Last Sunday we had our triennial conference session to which both my wife and I were delegates. Many things were discussed at the meetings, and yet there was no discussion on the question of the ordination of women. Such discussions occurred in private in the hall or outside  in the sunshine in between the meetings where no vote was taken.

I sensed there were three views among those delegates I happened to meet at such discussions, and also among church members elsewhere.

1. A large number seem to be impressed the Holy Spirit is guiding  the Church in the clear understanding of Scripture that women should be ordained to the ministry in these last days as a fulfillment of prophecy.

2. A strong minority here is opposed to this view as they interpret the same texts as opposed to ordaining woman.

3. A third group see that those texts can be interpreted either way and therefore realize they create a conflict in the church. They think that since the texts can be interpreted either way it could not be  a question of right or wrong, but must be a question solved by the work of the Holy Spirit to determine what will be the greatest benefit to the Church.

From the Sabbath School lesson for today we learn that there can easily be a difference of opinions in certain areas without creating problems in the Church. The main question is that the Gospel be proclaimed unhindered by different opinions that are not an issue. Since our Brethren interpret the texts and Ellen White in different ways in this area of ordaining women we must not let the question divide us, but we must rather unite in our only task before the Coming of Jesus.

What would compromise really mean?

1. Would the first group in compromising surrender their belief that the Scriptures definitively mandate that women be ordained?

2. Would the second group in compromising surrender their belief that the Scriptures definitively prohibit the ordination of women?

3. Would the third group in compromising surrender their belief that the Scriptures make no definitive statement one way or the other?

Thus, would compromise in effect be capitulation rather than simply compromise?

[Snoopy]

Three Views

From Thursday to Last Sunday we had our triennial conference session to which both my wife and I were delegates. Many things were discussed at the meetings, and yet there was no discussion on the question of the ordination of women. Such discussions occurred in private in the hall or outside  in the sunshine in between the meetings where no vote was taken.

I sensed there were three views among those delegates I happened to meet at such discussions, and also among church members elsewhere.

1. A large number seem to be impressed the Holy Spirit is guiding  the Church in the clear understanding of Scripture that women should be ordained to the ministry in these last days as a fulfillment of prophecy.

2. A strong minority here is opposed to this view as they interpret the same texts as opposed to ordaining woman.

3. A third group see that those texts can be interpreted either way and therefore realize they create a conflict in the church. They think that since the texts can be interpreted either way it could not be  a question of right or wrong, but must be a question solved by the work of the Holy Spirit to determine what will be the greatest benefit to the Church.

From the Sabbath School lesson for today we learn that there can easily be a difference of opinions in certain areas without creating problems in the Church. The main question is that the Gospel be proclaimed unhindered by different opinions that are not an issue. Since our Brethren interpret the texts and Ellen White in different ways in this area of ordaining women we must not let the question divide us, but we must rather unite in our only task before the Coming of Jesus.

What would compromise really mean?

1. Would the first group in compromising surrender their belief that the Scriptures definitively mandate that women be ordained?

2. Would the second group in compromising surrender their belief that the Scriptures definitively prohibit the ordination of women?

3. Would the third group in compromising surrender their belief that the Scriptures make no definitive statement one way or the other?

Thus, would compromise in effect be capitulation rather than simply compromise?

I guess we'll never know the answer to that, Bob, unless God decides to come down here and strike down those who are woefully wrong.  In the meantime, why not embrace our differences and allow each other their own opinions? 

[Bob Pickle]

It seems to me that for each of the three parties, compromise would amount to capitulation, a surrender of that party's view.

Allow each their own opinion is fine. The problem is that each party, or at least two of them, wants to translate that opinion into action or policy which affects at least one other party.

[Snoopy]

It seems to me that for each of the three parties, compromise would amount to capitulation, a surrender of that party's view.

Allow each their own opinion is fine. The problem is that each party, or at least two of them, wants to translate that opinion into action or policy which affects at least one other party.

Why can't different denominational entities decide for themselves?  Why does it have to be "one size fits all"?  If differences matter enough to result in different working policies among divisions, why not in this case?

[Johann]

I understand that some of our scholars have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely nothing conclusive either way in Scripture, and that both those who claim that women should not be ordained, and also those who claim that women should be ordained, have no solid Scriptural foundation for their beliefs. Both parties are misusing the Holy Bible, according to this view.

Therefore the ordination is merely a personal choice of the Church members involved, and nothing else, according to this view. I am not trying to defend this view, nor can I disprove it completely. I am just mentioning that this seems to be taught at some of our colleges, but I have not read enough to say much about it, except that this seems to be the reason for point #3.

[Johann]

The reference to the Sabbath School lesson is where we are told that Paul and Barnabas had a strong disagreement concerning the ordination qualifications of John Mark.

And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other.

Acts 15:39.

Barnabas accepted the appointment (ordination qualifications) of John Mark and Paul refused, so they separated. The dispute was not about doctrine but about the qualification for ordination. As a result of the dispute there now were two groups in stead of one proclaiming the Good News.

Later on Paul succumbed and accepted John Mark as a partner, as qualified for ordination, and they could work together.

Here the question of ordination had nothing to do with doctrines, and even if they separated for a while because of this question, they were not separated in the church fellowship nor doctrines.

Does this indicate that the question of ordination could be a matter of personal choice?

[christian]

The reference to the Sabbath School lesson is where we are told that Paul and Barnabas had a strong disagreement concerning the ordination qualifications of John Mark.

And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other.

Acts 15:39.

Barnabas accepted the appointment (ordination qualifications) of John Mark and Paul refused, so they separated. The dispute was not about doctrine but about the qualification for ordination. As a result of the dispute there now were two groups in stead of one proclaiming the Good News.

Later on Paul succumbed and accepted John Mark as a partner, as qualified for ordination, and they could work together.

Here the question of ordination had nothing to do with doctrines, and even if they separated for a while because of this question, they were not separated in the church fellowship nor doctrines.

Does this indicate that the question of ordination could be a matter of personal choice?

First, the roll of women and men need to be affirmed. I believe that the question is not about ordination at all but rather whether we will follow the dictates of other prodistant religions and be excepted. The question of ordination is an issue of the current times and the desire of women's rights and comes from the same pot as those that advocate gay rights etc... Bu

[Johann]

Are you indicating it was those who support the gay rights who prompted Ellen G White to write the following:

“Women who are willing to consecrate some of their time to the service of the Lord should be appointed to visit the sick, look after the young, and minister to the necessities of the poor. They should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands. In some cases they will need to counsel with the church officers or the minister; but if they are devoted women, maintaining a vital connection with God, they will be a power for good in the church. This is another means of strengthening and building up the church.”—The Review and Herald, July 9, 1895.

[Johann]

First, the roll of women and men need to be affirmed. I believe that the question is not about ordination at all but rather whether we will follow the dictates of other prodistant religions and be excepted. The question of ordination is an issue of the current times and the desire of women's rights and comes from the same pot as those that advocate gay rights etc... Bu

Do we use Scripture to affirm that role? If we do, then we find women in such roles as judge, at the time when that was the highest civil post in Israel,(possibly prime minister)
as prophet in Old and New Testament, and this is what comes close to the post as pastor/evangelist today,
as female deacon when deacons also baptized new members,
as mother,
as wife,

There is no female priest in Scripture. The priests within Christianity today are the catholic priests who still perform the offerings of the Old Testament priests, except they do it as miracle mongers when they make the bread in their communion into real flesh, and the wine into real blood, according to the teachings of their church.

The priests of the Old Testament had to struggle with and kill real bulls and other animals, and this was not regarded as fitting for women.

The term ordination is not found anywhere in the Bible, so it needs to be defined. . . How, and by whom?