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[Johann]

For more information on the subject, you can see Shane Hilde's new website "Christ or culture". 

http://christorculture.com

His petition to the leadership of the Pacific Union Conference to limit ordination to men has about a 1,000 signatures so far.   

Last time I looked at a website asking people to sign in support of the Pacific Union Conference in ordaining pastors without regard to gender, had about 2,000 signatures.

[Artiste]

From yesterday to today, Shane Hilde's petition against women's ordination in the Pacific Union Conference increased from about 800 to about 1,000 signatures.

[Artiste]

For more information on the subject, you can see Shane Hilde's new website "Christ or culture". 

http://christorculture.com

His petition to the leadership of the Pacific Union Conference to limit ordination to men has about a 1,000 signatures so far.   

Last time I looked at a website asking people to sign in support of the Pacific Union Conference in ordaining pastors without regard to gender, had about 2,000 signatures.

In most Protestant churches, the gender-neutral ordination of women has progressed or is progressing to gender-neutral ordination in favor of gays in the ministry.

[Johann]

For more information on the subject, you can see Shane Hilde's new website "Christ or culture". 

http://christorculture.com

His petition to the leadership of the Pacific Union Conference to limit ordination to men has about a 1,000 signatures so far.   

Last time I looked at a website asking people to sign in support of the Pacific Union Conference in ordaining pastors without regard to gender, had about 2,000 signatures.

In most Protestant churches, the gender-neutral ordination of women has progressed or is progressing to gender-neutral ordination in favor of gays in the ministry.

I suppose this is an argument you have gained from a person who is not  prepared to follow Scripture nor the Spirit of Prophecy.

The reason I rejected Pipim many years ago is that he does not follow the Ellen G White method of Interpreting Scripture of comparing Scripture with Scripture, but rather a literalistic fundamentalist method which brings him more in line with the Roman Catholic tradition.

The Adventist Biblical Research Institute is in line with the Ellen White method as they interpret 1 Tim 3 where they compare Scripture with Scripture and thereby come to the conclusion that you cannot use the writings of Paul to condemn the ordination of women.

Pipim and his disciples follow the traditional method, as Murchielago points out, and fight for it that we should follow Rome in this question.

The right method of interpretation would never lead to gay marriages, beating spouses, nor illicit sex.

[christian]

Johann, there are those who speak of the Great Reformation in the past tense, but in my opinion it is still ongoing, and this issue is a part of it. 1,500 years of Catholic tradition, structure, and interpretation are not entirely undone in a few short centuries. Despite the empty, yet heart-felt protests to the contrary, the Protestant denominations, including ours, hold tradition to be as sacredly binding as does the Roman Catholic church, in my opinion.

Maybe you can answer this question since Johann refuses too. Why did Jesus pick only men as his disciples? And why would we ordain women to be Pastors, General Conference leader, and Elders against the wishes of the General Conference?

[Artiste]

Here are some samples of entries from the publicly-posted petition:

903
Elizabeth Barnes
I believe there are many important and vital roles to be fulfilled by women in church capacity. However, I believe that the role of ordained pastor is one that God entrusted to godly, consecrated, qualified men.

880
Leonor Shirkey
Women can still serve the Lord without becoming ordained.

857
Susan Ngalande
We are known as "the people of the word" can we stay that way please. This is not a time for compromise. God's word is clear so why do we want to conform to the world?

856
Anonymous   
I believe the women's ordination issue should be decided by the total constituency of the Adventist church, not by local conferences or unions.

[Artiste]

Another entry:

941
Olga
Please do not rebel against God's order of leadership in His church. GC has voted NO to womens ordination and we need to stand up behind that decision. If we are nor we are rebelling against the GC decision which is as the prophet of God said "when in session, GC is the voice of God". So, we are basically REBELLING AGAINST GOD. Can we see that or are we blinded by wordly practices in other protestan churches. Satan wants to divide our church, in God's name lets be united AND FOLLOW GOD'S ORDER OF LEADERSHIP. mAN IS STILL THE HEAD OF THE HOME, PRIEST OF THE HOME AND LEADER IN THE CHURCH. Bible reads that " elder is the MAN of one wife". It is so clear and simple but we are making it so complicated. Can't we see we are following women's liberation

[Murcielago]

Johann, there are those who speak of the Great Reformation in the past tense, but in my opinion it is still ongoing, and this issue is a part of it. 1,500 years of Catholic tradition, structure, and interpretation are not entirely undone in a few short centuries. Despite the empty, yet heart-felt protests to the contrary, the Protestant denominations, including ours, hold tradition to be as sacredly binding as does the Roman Catholic church, in my opinion.

Maybe you can answer this question since Johann refuses too. Why did Jesus pick only men as his disciples? And why would we ordain women to be Pastors, General Conference leader, and Elders against the wishes of the General Conference?

Christian, do you believe the SDA church should follow the example of Jesus and the disciples?

[Johann]

So, Mary and Martha were not disciples of Christ? Are you using a Bible where their story is omitted? How about all the females mentioned in the epistles of Paul? Have you forgotten Priscilla and Aquila and why should both names be there if only the males count?

[Johann]

Statement included in a paper prepared by William Johnson, Editor, Adventist Review,... July 1989:

Wherever we erect barriers against women in the church we are not walking straight according to the truth of the gospel. If God calls a Gentile, a slave, or a woman, who are we to resist?

[Johann]

Commenting on the Mohaven conference in 1973, which concluded that the Seventh-day Adventist Church sees no theological reason that women should not be ordained, Charles Bradford, President of the North American Division, stated 15 years later:

I myself believe that we are in the time when the Holy Spirit wants to empower all of the people of God for ministry.

R&H, Sept. 1, 1988.

What had Ellen White said already in 1901:

It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God.

R&H, Jan 15, 1901

Why are we so slow in following the clear instructions that have come to our church through the Spirit of Prophecy?

[Bob Pickle]

The reason I rejected Pipim many years ago is that he does not follow the Ellen G White method of Interpreting Scripture of comparing Scripture with Scripture, but rather a literalistic fundamentalist method which brings him more in line with the Roman Catholic tradition.

The Adventist Biblical Research Institute is in line with the Ellen White method as they interpret 1 Tim 3 where they compare Scripture with Scripture and thereby come to the conclusion that you cannot use the writings of Paul to condemn the ordination of women.

Remarkable, Johann, absolutely remarkable. You take a paper that concludes that "husband of one wife" in 1 Tim. 3:2 cannot be used to say that elders must be males, and you turn that simple conclusion into "the conclusion that you cannot use the writings of Paul to condemn the ordination of women."

Since when did that paper say anything about the totality of Paul's writings?

And, since you have thus far been unwilling to discuss the actual reasons given for the simple conclusion I refer to, cannot we conclude that you did not find the arguments so convincing or understandable yourself?

The right method of interpretation would never lead to gay marriages, beating spouses, nor illicit sex.

Can you please elaborate? If we can discount what Scripture says about women not being in authority over men in church life on the basis of culture, why can't we also discount what Scripture says about sodomites?

Statement included in a paper prepared by William Johnson, Editor, Adventist Review,... July 1989:

Is that an official pronouncement by the church, or the personal opinion of an editor?

It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God.

R&H, Jan 15, 1901

Haven't we already discussed this one? That by "pastors" she wasn't referring to gospel ministers serving as local pastors of local churches?

Remember, it was the same year, 1901, that she wrote the members in Iowa that as a general rule the conference laborers should go out from the churches into new fields.

Since the quote you cite speaks of canvassing preparing men and women to be pastors, do you advocate that anyone who wants to become a minister should engage in canvassing today?

Is it possible to be a minister assigned to a church, a minister who doesn't pastor? Apparently yes. According to 9MR 343-344, Elder H was not a shepherd, and did not do "pastoral work" among the "flock," even though he lived among them and preached to them. "Pastoral work" is described as "visit[ing]," and "personal labor."

And thus, when we read "pastors to the flock of God," should we understand this to mean individuals who are engaging in personal labor, in visiting, rather a person assigned by a conference to be a local pastor, who may or may not pastor, depending on whether or not he likes to do the type of visitation Ellen White was referring to?

[Johann]

Thank you Bob for this. I see no reason to respond, so we will just agree that we disagree - for now. I'll be praying for you that you may see the light that shines from HIM. And that it will bless you and your family. And I trust you have a good time together.

[Artiste]

Another entry from Shane Hilde"s petition:

976
Barbara Crawford
If God likens His church unto a delicate and comely woman (Jer 6:2), doesn't a woman as a pastor, bishop, elder equate to a same sex union, spiritual lesbianism, which God condemns (1 Corin 6:9-10; Rom 1:26, 27)? Women are to preach, of course. We are all (children and adults) to carry this gospel message forth. However, the function of shepherding a flock (church), God has left to those of the male gender. The male is a "type" of Christ--in the home as priest of the home--in the church as shepherd of the flock. Christ is a "husband" to the church, again a male specific function. The same spirit that sees nothing wrong with same sex unions is the same spirit that embraces female pastors and elders. Could it be that the spirit of homosexuality has been t

[christian]

Johann, there are those who speak of the Great Reformation in the past tense, but in my opinion it is still ongoing, and this issue is a part of it. 1,500 years of Catholic tradition, structure, and interpretation are not entirely undone in a few short centuries. Despite the empty, yet heart-felt protests to the contrary, the Protestant denominations, including ours, hold tradition to be as sacredly binding as does the Roman Catholic church, in my opinion.

Maybe you can answer this question since Johann refuses too. Why did Jesus pick only men as his disciples? And why would we ordain women to be Pastors, General Conference leader, and Elders against the wishes of the General Conference?

Christian, do you believe the SDA church should follow the example of Jesus and the disciples?

Absolutely not, we should follow the example of Jesus only. Jesus could have easily picked women as disciples but that was and is not the desired order of Heaven for the salvation of men. God could have as easily made Adam with the ability to carry children but he made the man and women's task different. What I see here is an attempt to add greater responsibility to the roll of men while diminishing the equally important roll of women. Jesus gave women nipples and breast so that they could nurse their babies. I see these guys pushing for women's ordination like if they don't get it the work will be hindered as a smoke screen to the base and diabolical attempt to destroy the family and thus the image of God.