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[Gregory]

Johann:

I just reported on the official action and related it in its English wording.


As to the 1881 General conference, that has been well discussed here.

I simply think that regardless of the historical accuracy in regart to 1881, that action of the North German Conference is interesting and perhaps historic in some aspects of its action.

I suspect that this may be the beginning of further action.  It is a door opening that most of us whoudl not have guessed would open.  It takes the center of action away from North America.  This clearly elevates this issue to something more than a uniquely North American issue.
 

[tinka]

I somehow would like this post to get through to CHRISSIA FONG-

Sabbath morning at 5:00 was awake and turned on TV to see this person at the pulpit. It took me a few minutes to see that it was not a man but a women as the voice was throwing me in my half slumbers. Then I saw the hair knotted in the back of head and decided it was a "woman preacher". I laid there in disgust to see the man's white pointed shirt collar with top button open instead of tie to go along with the masquerade of black hair slicked back. At the end of a man's black jacket she sported a very large masculine watch displayed the same as a man would wear in its position.  I am sure one of the reason's that Biblical account for non women "ordained" preachers was taken in with these tendencies in mind of just what "confused identity" could and would do.
This was a very clear example and 3 abn ran it.

The next was actions of very masculine nature except for two things, the high pitched fast talker with Aussie accent and the sometimes womanly trait of moving theirs hand so flippant keeping up with the fast talk of pulpit stories.

Miss Fong-- What is your message here?
and 3 abn why are you doing this?

Does anyone realize the progression and for what reason now???
Of course it is an ongoing thing in the evil world today!

Did anyone hear the sermon last night with Justin Kim. the degrading of men as a new world thing to do??

Here is a better one for you.

Last week while listening to news two women were on discussing the prostitution of the Top Security Men in S America.

Very sincerely one woman spoke up and told the other that would not have happened if the Obama's body guards would have been women.

I don't think my body made a move in shock until it really settled in to what she had just said.

Does a man really want a women to protect him?? The president of the United States to take on that " legacy".  How proud can that make him??

You got to be kidding with all this or else all reasonability  is gone. No I do not like what is going on here or in this world but what can you expect making words seem what they are not saying to push for this over the line agenda for women.  and the only books I have read are the ones I can count on and not waste my time with only "opinions" of writers as history in ones eyes are not the same in another.  I count only on our last message and all that is needed to know before coming confused with "hearsay of non inspired writers."  Reading of the North and South is one good example.

In fact all the above is exactly what will happen as "stated".

[Johann]

Johann:

I just reported on the official action and related it in its English wording.


As to the 1881 General conference, that has been well discussed here.

I simply think that regardless of the historical accuracy in regart to 1881, that action of the North German Conference is interesting and perhaps historic in some aspects of its action.

I suspect that this may be the beginning of further action.  It is a door opening that most of us whoudl not have guessed would open.  It takes the center of action away from North America.  This clearly elevates this issue to something more than a uniquely North American issue.
 

Furthermore, Gregory, this meeting could not have taken place without the representation of the Euro-Asia Division of the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, either by the president or one he had authorized. As we have pointed out before, a Division President is also considered a Vice President of the General Conference.

Is there any record of the Division President attempting to stop this on behalf of the General Conference?

So you are right, Gregory, this is a significant event. I thank God that by this we are signifying that the SDA Church is fully independent of the yoke of Rome which demands that all Christians unite under the banner of denying women ordination.

I feel we should unite in singing

Praise God, from whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Amen.

[Johann]

Vatican orders crackdown on American nuns

David Gibson | Apr 18, 2012 | Comments (0)
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WASHINGTON (RNS) The Vatican has launched a crackdown on the umbrella group that represents most of America's 55,000 Catholic nuns, saying that the group was not speaking out strongly enough against gay marriage, abortion and women’s ordination.

Do we support the pope? He equals gay marriage and abortion with women's ordination! Are we doing that toi? It may make him happy with some Seventh-day Adventists, if we support his actions against the Catholic nuns in America!

[tinka]

Not all Catholism is wrong. Most but not all. In fact when they find out the truth Mrs. White says that they will come fiercely to the front lines with the battle, while many Adventist who had all the direction and opportunities to fight will not be on the battlefront. So on this point of not "ordaining women preachers" they are right. and to tell you the truth they don't like what Obama has done to them either. and guess who is right there. If that is the Catholic belief then that is their freedom to believe how they choose. Obama is an enforcer whether people like it or not.

Did you all just take a gander at what was portrayed on 3abn Sabbath morning. That is what I call Adventist going after the flow. There is a reason for not "ordaining women". By any chance has anyone read where a women is to dress like a women and not in men's clothing? Of course that must be out the door with the jewelry concept too.

 Little by little and inch by inch is how the devil is working and the elect of SDA that are liberal in one thing will be in all things and
stand to enforce change with the times (for peoples sake) and will be deceived in the end as they helped and voted out the foundations of truth. 

So are the Catholics wrong on view of abortions, at least they stand up! Oh, I know in the end what it means, but many Catholics that are strong now will be strong when truth passes their sight. Not like the Reformers who were in and left and follow who ever leads them or the satisfiers of people that are deadly within.

[Johann]

The Bible is clear when it comes to gay marriages, but where in Scripture does the Lord forbid the ordination of women? Nobody has yet given a clear word of Scripture nor a quotation by Ellen White where such ordination is forbidden.

If this is so clear it should be easy to convince our Brethren in North Germany, in the Potomac Conference, and elsewhere, that they are doing the wrong thing.

Where does God require of us to apply a complicated man-made explanation to understand His Word - when there is neither such as explanation given to us by Ellen White?

[Johann]

Ellen G White counsel:

Women who are willing to consecrate some of their time to the service of the Lord should be appointed to visit the sick, look after the young, and minister to the necessities of the poor. They should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands. In some cases they will need to counsel with the church officers or the minister; but if they are devoted women, maintaining a vital connection with God, they will be a power for good in the church. This is another means of strengthening and building up the church. We need to branch out more in our methods of labor. Not a hand should be bound, not a soul discouraged, not a voice should be hushed; let every individual labor, privately or publicly, to help forward this grand work. Place the burdens upon men and women of the church, that they may grow by reason of the exercise, and thus become effective agents in the hand of the Lord for the enlightenment of those who sit in darkness. {RH July 9, 1895, par. 8}

[tinka]

Ellen G White counsel:

Women who are willing to consecrate some of their time to the service of the Lord should be appointed to visit the sick, look after the young, and minister to the necessities of the poor. They should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands. In some cases they will need to counsel with the church officers or the minister; but if they are devoted women, maintaining a vital connection with God, they will be a power for good in the church. This is another means of strengthening and building up the church. We need to branch out more in our methods of labor. Not a hand should be bound, not a soul discouraged, not a voice should be hushed; let every individual labor, privately or publicly, to help forward this grand work. Place the burdens upon men and women of the church, that they may grow by reason of the exercise, and thus become effective agents in the hand of the Lord for the enlightenment of those who sit in darkness. {RH July 9, 1895, par. 8}

Yes, as special laborers in teachers, doras ( community service) and many fields, health etc, etc,  I have been very busy and have not had time to find and post but eventually will present more evidence where it is sound and not the use of "forbidden".

[Johann]

Ellen G White counsel:

Women who are willing to consecrate some of their time to the service of the Lord should be appointed to visit the sick, look after the young, and minister to the necessities of the poor. They should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands. In some cases they will need to counsel with the church officers or the minister; but if they are devoted women, maintaining a vital connection with God, they will be a power for good in the church. This is another means of strengthening and building up the church. We need to branch out more in our methods of labor. Not a hand should be bound, not a soul discouraged, not a voice should be hushed; let every individual labor, privately or publicly, to help forward this grand work. Place the burdens upon men and women of the church, that they may grow by reason of the exercise, and thus become effective agents in the hand of the Lord for the enlightenment of those who sit in darkness. {RH July 9, 1895, par. 8}

Yes, as special laborers in teachers, doras ( community service) and many fields, health etc, etc,  I have been very busy and have not had time to find and post but eventually will present more evidence where it is sound and not the use of "forbidden".

I will look forward to read your posts in the future when you have found what you are looking for.

[Johann]

It is interesting that a Seventh-day Adventist church in Ghana in West Africa was among the first to elect a female local elder already 40-50 years ago.

Some years later the most vocal opposition against female ordination came from Ghana.

[Johann]

On the Northern German Union Vote for Women's Ordination
24 April 2012 | Dennis Meier
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Frustration over the global impasse on the issue of women's ordination has finally led to an amendment of the constitution of the Northern German Union, as the delegates voted on April 23 in Geseke/Westfalia to accord equal rights in ordination regardless of gender. An individual's motion to ordain women was successfully passed through the administrative levels in order to qualify for the agenda. It would be an overstatement to say that discussions were controversial. There was not one speaker on the microphone who spoke against the ordination of women. Some obviously tended towards rating global unity over equality as everyone knew a positive vote would lead to a clash with the General Conference's Working Policy.

The call for unity and patience in regard to the next General Conference session in 2015 came from the Euro-Africa Division as expected. They tried illustrate the dilemma with an ill-chosen German metaphor: If one of the sixteen states constituting the Federal Republic of Germany voted to limit the speed on the Autobahn to 20km/h, the regulation would be meaningless since German highways are property of the federation, not the states and changes would require national legislation, not regional. The responses to the metaphor gave insight into the thinking on the floor. One delegate (female) said that the comparison should be made global and that while the roads in Africa are probably not fit for speeding like those in Germany, that wouldn't warrant a global speedlimit. Another delegate somewhat jokingly said: If they brought us down to 20, we would run at 100 anyway, as long as there is no police around.

All in all the final vote of 160 to 47 (taken electronically for the first time) mirrored the unanimity on the topic. While some insisted on their conscience for a "Yes" vote and others mentioned terms like revolution or reformation, it became clear that the floor had made up its mind that on the issue of the equality of female with male pastors playing for time is no more an option. Patience has yielded to resolution.

While the decision is in contradiction to global regulation, it should be noted that it was emphasized more than once that this is not to be considered as an act of disloyalty towards the world church, but as an act of conscience toward the gospel, albeit with a flavor of civil disobedience.

Dennis Meier is pastor of the Grindelberg church in Hamburg, Germany.

Spectrum

[tinka]

 

Many will follow to jump off a cliff too or take a kool-aid.

I have never been taught to be a follower or look what someone else is doing. I know to be an individual to be responsible for my own actions and why.

are you aware that many Adventist will fall to Sunday worship too and that reason will because they were never an individual to look straight ahead to the mark and keep their eyes straight on Jesus as they have studied all for their self. I am very aware that even the biggest percentage that post on here do not even begin to have studied every single book or no way would they come off as they do.

Most new Adventist follow the leader and the serious ones read for their self. All I know that is in Europe they are more liberal then here so why wouldnt they follow the leader. Did not the Americans find an excuse to wear their golden rings to appease the "overseas agenda".  Just an excuse is all it was.

None of this will matter to me except for one thing.This proves the "Signs of the Times." I know it's coming in which the foundation will be swayed ever way the wind can blow it. I am thankful for my time that I was able to "understand and even this morning I read Romans and Corinthians and Galations.

Jesus promised me one thing, he would not let me believe a lie and therefore my eye is on what I have read and the meaning of every context of which was spoken or written. I do not go after phrases that sound one way and make them into saying another.
There was no confusing in her contexts and what she meant or stated. I know for a fact that just because once church or one conference came up with their own thing does not mean she approved. She clearly states!!

[Johann]

Shun the burning desire to get up something new and bring it in as new light—If we only knew what is before us, we should not be so dilatory in doing the work of the Lord. There are ministers and workers who will present a tissue of nonsensical falsehoods as testing truths, even as the Jewish rabbis presented the maxims of men as the bread of heaven. These are given to the flock of God, as their portion of meat in due season, while the poor sheep are starving for the bread of life. Even now there seems to be a burning desire to get up something startling, and bring it in as new light. Thus men are weaving into the web as important truths a tissue of lies. This imaginary food that is being prepared for the flock will cause spiritual consumption, decline, and death.—The Review and Herald, January 22, 1901. {PaM 30.1}

[Johann]

The Role of NAD

President Jackson . . . described the conferences and unions as doing what they feel God is calling them to do, and the NAD did not see its role as one of trying to stop them.  “We are not going to chastise them…we are not going to affirm them.”  Instead, President Jackson sees the role of the NAD as one of educating the North American constituencies.  He noted that it was clear at the 2011 year-end meeting that this question is not going away for NAD, and that its role, in addition to education, is to find more pathways for women in leadership.

Spectrum

[Johann]

are you aware that many Adventist will fall to Sunday worship too and that reason will because they were never an individual to look straight ahead to the mark and keep their eyes straight on Jesus as they have studied all for their self. I am very aware that even the biggest percentage that post on here do not even begin to have studied every single book or no way would they come off as they do.

Yes, and what the Roman Catholic Church seems to be doing these days is to catch those who are unwilling to yield their Sabbath to accept the Roman Catholic view of women. Just look at what is happening to someone like you, tinka. You would never give up the Sabbath, but you seem to swallow the Roman Catholic view on women without a question.

You keep claiming you are following Ellen White and the Bible, but you have not yet produced a single proof. Nobody has yet. Where is yours?