Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Johann]

So you're suggesting we should ignore Bible principle and the requirements set forth by the Apostle Paul in the book of Timothy to fit the mode?

Lol. Then why not just change everything to fit our desires and wants? Women want to be ordained? Too bad. No woman is called by God to be a "pastor", or to be "ordained".

Honestly, Alex, where in your KJV Bible is anyone called to be a "pastor"? Male or female?

[Johann]

Read again the post, She put it away never to wear it again knowing in her conscience what she believed was truth. If that is not the case then she should not have put it away never to be worn again. as stated!

I know that text almost by heart now, tinka. You are not saying what her husband said. I would never dare change the messages God has given us. Because I think God means what He says in some of the last words of the Bible:

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Don't you believe in these words, tinka? I would not dare change the meaning of what I read in His Word.

[Murcielago]

I respect and appreciate people whose world is black and white. Simplicity is a virtue that removes the complications of life. When math consists of 1, 2, 3, but has no integers, addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are simple. When there is 1 choice instead of 10, decisions are easy. I know a young man who can only eat lunch at precisely 12:30pm, and he will not put a bite in his mouth if the clock says 12:29. That removes many decisions and choices from his life, but it is rather amusing when he crosses a time zone. The validity of time zones is called into question, in his agony, and that calls into question the validity of his own time zone as Greenwich Mean predates his. Then comes the nightmare of daylight saving... To harbour with folk who break their fast at 6:00am instead of 7, Raises feelings of fun and fear. But can he break from the mold?

Very very true Murcielago, that life has many complications, but the rules of God are not and simple to understand. Did God give us complications, No
Did the devil?? yes. and that is black and white!

I respectfully disagree. God gave us a highly complex universe. There is nothing remotely simple about it. Its laws vary according to needs. Avians must have wings and feathers, fish must have fins. There are laws that apply to polar creatures that do not apply to tropical animals. a grain of sand is not just a grain of sand, but various molecules, made up of atoms, made up of sub-atomic particles, founded on quantum foam. God's creation and the laws that govern it are varied and complex. Black and white? No. We know of over 16 million colours in the visible spectrum between pure black (which is not a colour), and pure white. It is easier to stop at the grain of sand, to not acknowledge the shades that exist between black and white, to impose the laws that apply to us on everyone else, than to live in the broader world that God made.

[Murcielago]

The following quote from EGW is taken from the Church Manual page 31.

“I have often been instructed by the Lord that no man’s judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any other one man. Never should the mind of one man or the minds of a few men be regarded as sufficient in wisdom and power to control the work and to say what plans shall be followed. But when, in a General Conference, the judgment of the brethren assembled from all parts of the field is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be stubbornly maintained, but surrendered. Never should a laborer regard as a virtue the persistent maintenance of his position of independence, contrary to the decision of the general body.”
9T 260.

[/quote]

That does not mean what you want it to mean by far..
[/quote]
What do you think I want it to mean? What do you think it means?

[Johann]

Current SDA View in Northern Europe on Female Pastors

We have female pastors in all of the last three countries where I have lived, Denmark, Norway, and Iceland. I know that our leaders in these countries have not taken that step before much prayer and examination of the Word of God, and as a result they have arrived at these conclusions.

When I see some attacking what they are doing, using Roman Catholic reasoning, as far as I can see it, I cannot keep silent. Yes, a majority has still prevented this will of God to receive a universal acceptance, but has the majority always been right? Why wait for a majority on something that is clear and straight and fully in accordance with the Word of God and the Prophetic Gift to His Church?

Why should the voice of Rome hold sway among us? How long?

It is my Christian duty to defend the leaders God has appointed to lead His work where I reside.

Jesus is coming soon. There is not much time to loose.

[tinka]

I respectfully disagree. God gave us a highly complex universe. There is nothing remotely simple about it. Its laws vary according to needs. Avians must have wings and feathers, fish must have fins. There are laws that apply to polar creatures that do not apply to tropical animals. a grain of sand is not just a grain of sand, but various molecules, made up of atoms, made up of sub-atomic particles, founded on quantum foam. God's creation and the laws that govern it are varied and complex. Black and white? No. We know of over 16 million colours in the visible spectrum between pure black (which is not a colour), and pure white. It is easier to stop at the grain of sand, to not acknowledge the shades that exist between black and white, to impose the laws that apply to us on everyone else, than to live in the broader world that God made.

Wait a minute, you say God gave us a highly complex universe??? I sort of understood that God made His universe and this earth and us people for Himself. His complexes of His creations are beyond to understand the mysteries of Gods power to do this and cannot be all understood by man only their surmising until they surmise their selves into smarter then God -who in his complex created all for Himself and for what reason it all works together.  In fact in His supreme "complex of creating" He made everything except man that gives of its self.  Man is the only created being that does not give by creation as everything else. He has the choice. In doing so God longed to be loved back freely from choice.

 His simple law and examples are only complex to those who like to jiggle   God never expected everyone to know about the Atom or its complexity. In simplicity of understanding, He gave us a way to live and escape the death penalty.

[Murcielago]

I respectfully disagree. God gave us a highly complex universe. There is nothing remotely simple about it. Its laws vary according to needs. Avians must have wings and feathers, fish must have fins. There are laws that apply to polar creatures that do not apply to tropical animals. a grain of sand is not just a grain of sand, but various molecules, made up of atoms, made up of sub-atomic particles, founded on quantum foam. God's creation and the laws that govern it are varied and complex. Black and white? No. We know of over 16 million colours in the visible spectrum between pure black (which is not a colour), and pure white. It is easier to stop at the grain of sand, to not acknowledge the shades that exist between black and white, to impose the laws that apply to us on everyone else, than to live in the broader world that God made.

Wait a minute, you say God gave us a highly complex universe??? I sort of understood that God made His universe and this earth and us people for Himself. His complexes of His creations are beyond to understand the mysteries of Gods power to do this and cannot be all understood by man only their surmising until they surmise their selves into smarter then God -who in his complex created all for Himself and for what reason it all works together.  In fact in His supreme "complex of creating" He made everything except man that gives of its self.  Man is the only created being that does not give by creation as everything else. He has the choice. In doing so God longed to be loved back freely from choice.

 His simple law and examples are only complex to those who like to jiggle   God never expected everyone to know about the Atom or its complexity. In simplicity of understanding, He gave us a way to live and escape the death penalty.

God gave humans the desire and ability to learn and advance, to grow into an understanding and appreciation of the vast complexity of our world and his universe. He gave us the ability to understand that there is more that what our limited vision can see when we stand still, and instilled in us a wonder and curiosity that drives us to move from that standing position and see what else there is hiding beyond a horizon that goes into infinity. The servant who feared to go out and invest hid the treasure trusted to him in the ground. He didn't want to jiggle it around, or surmise that he could make more money out of it, and the master was not pleased. God did not create a static universe, but one that is filled with variety, constant change, and forward motion. When one reaches the point when they feel that there is nothing more to learn, it is a sad moment.

[tinka]

Current SDA View in Northern Europe on Female Pastors

We have female pastors in all of the last three countries where I have lived, Denmark, Norway, and Iceland. I know that our leaders in these countries have not taken that step before much prayer and examination of the Word of God, and as a result they have arrived at these conclusions.

When I see some attacking what they are doing, using Roman Catholic reasoning, as far as I can see it, I cannot keep silent. Yes, a majority has still prevented this will of God to receive a universal acceptance, but has the majority always been right? Why wait for a majority on something that is clear and straight and fully in accordance with the Word of God and the Prophetic Gift to His Church?

Why should the voice of Rome hold sway among us? How long?

It is my Christian duty to defend the leaders God has appointed to lead His work where I reside.

Jesus is coming soon. There is not much time to loose.

Years ago I came into contact with people who tried to convince me that SDA Reformers were the way to go. Somehow they got wind of what SDA officials did to us, I listened intently to all their reasoning why SDA is Babylon.  Why is it I am almost hearing the same tinkling bell here of reasoning.  I read their writings and putting together all sentences that were doctored in their articles, and if I was not grounded I would have left. The grounding took several years of research and I will definitely state the Reformers are wrong to do what they did and believe it or not it seemed to all start in your neck of the woods or lets say Swiss or
European. But this is the same type reasonings I am reading.

[tinka]

Murcielago,

We are not talking about not learning here, we are talking about man changing a certain doctrine of a religion because of "New era" of disinterested values that are against their lifestyle so their conscience feels good and not like the woman who took her wedding ring off and never wore it again..

[Murcielago]

Murcielago,

We are not talking about not learning here, we are talking about man changing a certain doctrine of a religion because of "New era" of disinterested values that are against their lifestyle so their conscience feels good and not like the woman who took her wedding ring off and never wore it again..

We are talking about many things, including rules that may apply in some areas while not in others. We are talking about definitions that are not black and white, but have variables. An understanding of variables comes with learning, and realizing that there may be more to things than what we see.

In simplicity of understanding, He gave us a way to live and escape the death penalty.

And in a broader understanding, He gave us that, and much more.

[Johann]

Read again the post, She put it away never to wear it again knowing in her conscience what she believed was truth. If that is not the case then she should not have put it away never to be worn again. as stated!

I know that text almost by heart now, tinka. You are not saying what her husband said. I would never dare change the messages God has given us. Because I think God means what He says in some of the last words of the Bible:

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Don't you believe in these words, tinka? I would not dare change the meaning of what I read in His Word.

Will you answer this is just ignore it?

[Alex L. Walker]

So you're suggesting we should ignore Bible principle and the requirements set forth by the Apostle Paul in the book of Timothy to fit the mode?

Lol. Then why not just change everything to fit our desires and wants? Women want to be ordained? Too bad. No woman is called by God to be a "pastor", or to be "ordained".

Honestly, Alex, where in your KJV Bible is anyone called to be a "pastor"? Male or female?

Johann, are you kidding me? Read the book of Timothy.....

[Alex L. Walker]

I cannot believe how "liberal" some of you folks are.....trying to change the Bible to fit your desires....

You know, in fact, that is what liberalism has done to our country...allowed abortion, no prayer in schools, etc...

May God have mercy!

If a woman claims to be called by God to preach....she is a liar. There is no biblical foundation to support it.

[Johann]

Historic Vote For Female Seminary Graduates in Bermuda

http://adventistbermuda.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=386&Itemid=214

[Johann]

Alex, I challenge you to read the book of Timothy. Not once do you find the word "pastor".

The only place in the New Testament where you find the word "pastor" is in Ephesians 4:11. Here it is rendered in plural, "pastors". It is never in the singular anywhere in the KJV Bible. Look for yourself!

Even the most conservative ought to be able to discover this without being labeled a "liberal"!