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[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Annonymous
a day ago


That is interesting.  In a meeting that I and several others had with another of the Mid-America Union's officers, we asked him specifically if the vote was only to affirm their belief that women should be ordained to the Gospel ministry or would they actually ordain women.  His response was, "If one of our Conferences sends us the name of a woman, we will consider that name for ordination".
  So, either the President or the other officer was mistaken about what was voted by the Executive Committee of the Mid-America Union.

Anonymous

So, anonymous declares that Pastor Lemon whitewashed the intent and the purposes of the Mid-America Union Executive Committee. Shame on Pastor Lemon for the whitewash now exposed.

I find this political game a simple effort to cover-up and whitewash apostacy.

Now, shame on any Executive Committee for taking on a tradition of Fallen Protestantism in a clear attempt to conform to a world nearly bankrupt. It is apostacy to claim that it is shameful for the Laodicean Church to deny ordination to women. The co-founder of this church repeatedly steered very clearly from ordination, electing simple licensure to carry her warning against apostacy to Modern Israel.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

The Southeastern California Conference, in a closely coordinated rebellion against the General Conference with Dr. Lawrence Geraty as a key player and observer, moved to "Ordain" women to the ordained ministry via the laying on of hands more than two decades ago.

Yet at the same time a reform movement did the same thing with Elder Ralph Larsen officiating and was seen and treated as outright rebellion, with Elder larsen paying a very heavy penalty.

The Southeastern California Conference has been in deliberate rebellion against duly constituted Church Authority for quite some time and here we see more bold and deliberate "in your face" rebellion.

I must recommend the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists begin the process of reconciliation and then proceed with a special constituency to consider the disbanding of the Southeastern California Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

I am told the issue is the money...since when did money become a foundation for ignoring rebellion, apostocy and heresy?

Shortly, the Lord will manifest His Spirit within the Seventh-day Adventist Church and apostates and heretics will be swept aside so we can prepare for the "Loud Cry". We do not need rebellion, apostacy and heresy and should decisively meet it head on now, lest we fill our cup with the sin of Ommission!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gregory]

GAJ:  Are you not aware the the movement to ordain females is growing stronger in the NAD?

From that perspective alone, your suggestion is unlikely to gain much ground.

[Gregory]

GAJ:  Ellen White, a co-founder of the SDA Chruch carried the credentials of an ordained minister, and was so listed in official records of the denomination for several years.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Watching the current administration of the Southern New England Conference has been an eye opening experience in Canadian Union church administration. Not only has the Canadian Union spawned a large number of "Home Churches" but some conferences such as Alberta, the prior assignmment of our conference president, openly tolerated what would be viewed as open rebellion in the US conferences.

We have seen a waste of conference assetts, the loss of our first North American Division College, but have also seen the conference openly tolerate Biblical Adultery within it's conference staff.

I believe it is very probable that the Canadian Union of Mr Jackson's (Yes, Mr and not Elder) roots is likely to follow Mid-America, Columbia Union, Pacific Union (with Southeastern California Conference openly adopting a policy of single "ordination" for men and women and eliminating its dual "Ordination"  and "Licensed Commission") in the effort to follow the apostacy of fallen protestantism.   

This is the same "Mr Jackson" that suggested he should take Elder David Asherrick to the woodshed for standing solidly in opposition to open endorsement of "Evolution" instruction at La Sierra. The same "Mr Jackson" that tried to politically use the NAD Fall Counsel to allow the NAD to adopt the "ordination" of women.

Mr Jackson's inability to bring spiritual and seasoned wisdom to the office of the NAD Presidency is now well documented and has selected a Special Assistant to the President well known to have covered up serious issues while serving as President of Illionois Conference, many times simply ignoring evidence in favor of political compromise and cover-up.

I will be so bold to call for the resignation of Mr Jackson and his Special Assistant as they are most certainly not in synchronization with the General Conference President's Revival and Reformation Initiative. Mr Jackson is incapable of taking a stand on any great principle other than political self preservation. We do not need his lack of leadership at the NAD level.


Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

She repeatedly declined the position and is not known to have received the laying on of hands to be ordained. There were some who felt that Mrs White was "ordained of the Lord" but she repeatedly avoided accepting ordaination just as ardently as she avoided the title "prophet" in favor of "Messenger of the Lord".

At no time did Ellen G. White encourage or accept the ordaination of women and adhered to clear biblical principal's.

And, she was clear in declaring herself to be the "lesser light" ardently turning to the Bible as the foundations of Faith. The Bible gives clear and concise guidelines and adhered to a principle of the husband being the "high Priest" of the home.

There is simply no good basis for allowing a deviation from these principles and those churches that have, commonly referred to as "fallen protestantism", have gone on to compromise almost all their orginal protest standards and go well beyond to accept serious deviations from biblical foundations.
Their ultimate endorsement of open and notorious sin is well documented.

I take it, Mr Gregory, you endorse the ordaination of women to the ministry?

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Of course I understand that and I, unlike yourself, would stand solidly in opposition to open apostacy.

My position on Mr. Jackson is also clear and we in the NAD must choose to whom our allegiance is to and to what standards we shall adhere to.

I have found that apostracy always has a vocal voice but the stockholders in the pews frequently do not agree with leadership, or is it lack of leadership? I will call those stockholders in the pews the "silent majority"!!! Remember them?

Lord forbid they oppose open apostacy!!! But, if the NAD moves away from the world church it will likely prove to be far more devastating the dissidence of the early 90's and lead to serious fracture.

As for me and my family, we will follow the word of the Lord clearly enunciated in Holy Scripture.
I would recommend the NAD do the same.

Mr. Gregory, I would recommend you do the same.

Gailon Arthur Joy.
AUReporter

[Gregory]

1) Yes, I support the ordination of women to ministry.  The fundamental issue is NOT ordination, it is ministry.  If we are going to allow women to be pastors and perform almost all of the functions that our male clergy perform, we should ordain them.

2) As to what will likely be your second question:  Yes, I support female clergy.

3) You are correct that EGW did not recieve the laying on of hands.

4) You are incorrect when you say that she repeatedly declined the position if you mean by that the credentials of an ordained minister.  On November 27, 1887 the 26th annual session of the General Conference voted in official session to grant EGW the credentials of an ordained minister.  Those credentials were re-issued upon their expiration.  As you are well aware,  EGW was quite willing to reprove General Conference personnel and GC leadership when she thought they were taking the denomination in awrong direction.  She did not reprove them for this action.  Rather she accepted the credentials and continued to accept them when re-newed.

5) As to your statement that EGW never encouraged the ordination of women to ministry, that is subject to debate and I will not take a position on it.

6)  As you are probably aware because it has been well reported in the REVIEW for several years now: The Seventh-day Adventist denomination accepts the ordination of women in China as most people who are aware of the sistuation there beleive that God has clearly led in that direction.

[Snoopy]

It would be interesting to learn what EGW's opinion would be of the church as it operates now.

[Gregory]

I ask myself that often.  However, I generally expand my question to what she would think about the Chruch in the society of today.  Denomilnations exist in a specific time and culture.  And such sould be considered.  Does that give a denomination license to be anyting?  No!   But, I like to consider context.
 

[Snoopy]

That is a great point, Gregory.  So I revise my question to this:

What would a modern day EGW think of the current state of the SDA church?

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

1) Yes, I support the ordination of women to ministry.  The fundamental issue is NOT ordination, it is ministry.  If we are going to allow women to be pastors and perform almost all of the functions that our male clergy perform, we should ordain them.

2) As to what will likely be your second question:  Yes, I support female clergy.

3) You are correct that EGW did not recieve the laying on of hands.

4) You are incorrect when you say that she repeatedly declined the position if you mean by that the credentials of an ordained minister.  On November 27, 1887 the 26th annual session of the General Conference voted in official session to grant EGW the credentials of an ordained minister.  Those credentials were re-issued upon their expiration.  As you are well aware,  EGW was quite willing to reprove General Conference personnel and GC leadership when she thought they were taking the denomination in awrong direction.  She did not reprove them for this action.  Rather she accepted the credentials and continued to accept them when re-newed.

5) As to your statement that EGW never encouraged the ordination of women to ministry, that is subject to debate and I will not take a position on it.

6)  As you are probably aware because it has been well reported in the REVIEW for several years now: The Seventh-day Adventist denomination accepts the ordination of women in China as most people who are aware of the sistuation there beleive that God has clearly led in that direction.

And therefore, we should ignore Biblical Principle and adopt this new "strange fire" clearly unsupported biblically.

I do not support female clergy but do accept that women can be "messengers" and can do ministry. In fact, I would propogate the premise that God's ideal is that Husband and Wife should be a ministry team.

The designation granted by the GC to Ellen G. White had specific and limited purpose. There is simply no foundation from Ellen G. White to support "women as clergy" and she definitely did ot take such a role as head of any church in which she served. That example alone is enough to support a clear premise that she repeatedly pointed to and stood firmly upon biblical principle. THAT HAS NOT CHANGED and when churches have adopted such a position their history is replete with one compromise after another.

So, can we safely assume that you would graduate into gay men and women also serving as clergy? Maxwell certainly warned against that creeping compromise twenty plus years ago.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gregory]

So, can we safely assume that you would graduate into gay men and women also serving as clergy? Maxwell certainly warned against that creeping compromise twenty plus years ago.

GAJ:   A typical response for you.  Totally unwarrented.  Without foundation.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

And a typical response for you...the premise that we set standards based on contemporary cultural
context would and has naturally lead to "standards promiscuity". You open this door and the results are already clearly known by those who have gone before us. I have no problem clarifying where this apoctasy leads!!!

If you do not like the natural extention of your thought process and that of your contemporaries, you should seriously reconsider the breach of clear "thus saith the Lord"!!! Your reconsideration is a must and if you don't like the results, don't push the button to launch into the undesired future.

And to prevent this natural extention from becoming a reality in the Southeastern California Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, we must discipline them now for this open rebellion and stem the national tide toward open and notorious absolute apostacy.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Alex L. Walker]

1) Yes, I support the ordination of women to ministry.  The fundamental issue is NOT ordination, it is ministry.  If we are going to allow women to be pastors and perform almost all of the functions that our male clergy perform, we should ordain them.

2) As to what will likely be your second question:  Yes, I support female clergy.

3) You are correct that EGW did not recieve the laying on of hands.

4) You are incorrect when you say that she repeatedly declined the position if you mean by that the credentials of an ordained minister.  On November 27, 1887 the 26th annual session of the General Conference voted in official session to grant EGW the credentials of an ordained minister.  Those credentials were re-issued upon their expiration.  As you are well aware,  EGW was quite willing to reprove General Conference personnel and GC leadership when she thought they were taking the denomination in awrong direction.  She did not reprove them for this action.  Rather she accepted the credentials and continued to accept them when re-newed.

5) As to your statement that EGW never encouraged the ordination of women to ministry, that is subject to debate and I will not take a position on it.

6)  As you are probably aware because it has been well reported in the REVIEW for several years now: The Seventh-day Adventist denomination accepts the ordination of women in China as most people who are aware of the sistuation there beleive that God has clearly led in that direction.

Now this is where we DO disagree. Under NO circumstances should a woman be allowed to be a pastor or be ordained. None whatsoever.