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[Gregory]

Bob:

No one should corelate the laws people pass with the the opinions of scientists.  This is true in many areas of life.

[Bob Pickle]

No one should corelate the laws people pass with the the opinions of scientists.  This is true in many areas of life.

I'm not sure if I understand your response.

I think I even talked to a Colorado government agency about this question, and I think they told me that orientation meant orientation, not behavior. But I don't think I've seen anything written on this issue.

[horsethief]

This miscreant Tommy Shelton chose to be a homosex and attack children. He knew it was wrong regardless of his environment. His oyster-brained brother knew it was wrong too. That's why he tried to cover it up. This has been going on for years. With Tommy out of the picture, there's one less wart on the back side of socety.

[Gregory]

Horsethief:
We are not excusing TS.  We are not defending him.  You are correct in your statement as to the choices that he made in what he did.

As to your statement regarding his choice to be a homosexual:  He did not have the choice as to his gender preference any more than you had a choice.  That is where it is at.  If you think that either you or TS has a  choice as to gender preference, that is simply wrong.

[Johann]

The question asked is: How is Tommy Shelton?

I do not know, but according to the information I have seen it should be his birthday in a few days on March 25.

This information is given only for the purpose of sending him a friendly greeting:

Tommy Shelton
Offender ID 2021892
Fairfax County Adult Det CTR
10520 Judicial Drive
Fairfax VA 22030

The information was given to me by phone when I called the number given to obtain such information.

I also tried to call the number of the Detention where he is, but it seems like you cannot speak to anyone there without some kind of clearance.

But let's try to give him some kind of encouragement in connection  with his birthday.

[Bob Pickle]

Horsethief:
We are not excusing TS.  We are not defending him.  You are correct in your statement as to the choices that he made in what he did.

As to your statement regarding his choice to be a homosexual:  He did not have the choice as to his gender preference any more than you had a choice.  That is where it is at.  If you think that either you or TS has a  choice as to gender preference, that is simply wrong.

Gregory, I don't know how you can say with absolute certainty that Tommy did not have a choice.

If we consider the area of tobacco orientation, tobacco preference, there is no innate, natural craving for tobacco. But if someone engages in the use of tobacco, they will develop a craving for tobacco. The first choices to use tobacco were the choices that resulted in creating the preference for tobacco. Later on they may feel that their cravings come without any conscious choice on their part, but when we look back at the start of the habit, that's where their choices definitely created the preference.

So I don't think we can say with absolute certainty that Tommy never ever had a choice regarding his perverted cravings.

[Gregory]

There is a lot of science that informs us about addictions.  Tobbacco is addictive.  For many of the addictive substances we understand that physiology that makes that substance addictive.

The physology that exists for the addictive substances is totally absent from the development of gender preference.  That is a known fact.  You did not develop your gender preference by any mechanism known as part of the addictive process.

The etiology of homosexuality is not developed to the point of certainty.  And, we cannot say with certainty that all homosexuals have the same etiology.  Personally, I think that the etiology may differ and that they do not all have the same origon.  Regardless of what some may claim, it cannot be said with certainty that homosexuality is genetic.  It may be that in the case of some there is a genetic factor.  However,  if that is true, that does not mean that the claimed genetic factor is definative.  There are conditions of the human existance that are the result of multliple genetic factors and in which no one genetic factor is the cause.

It has been suggested that certain prd-natal factors that are not genetic to the child are part of the etiology of homosexuality in some.  Perhaps?  But, the science is not conclusive on this.

It has also been suggested that specific social influences on the very young child may be a factor.  If so, sicence is not currently conclusive on this point.

Whatever the true etiology of homosexuality, I happen to beleive that gender preference is fixed in the young child well before that person is able to make choices about their gender preference.  With that beliefe,  I can believe that gender preference in not a cooice of the individual.  However, I can say that the individual can exercise choice in their behavior.   I do not excuse behavior.

 

[Gregory]

Bob asked:

Gregory, I don't know how you can say with absolute certainty that Tommy did not have a choice.

There is a fundamental construct behind your question.   That construct is that homosexuality is determined by behavior.  That is accepted by probably many.  But, it is one that I reject.  you will probably say, and I will agree with you on this:  Peole do have choice in how they behave.  Homosexuals have a choice in how they behave.  From that perspective, if you define homosexuality by behavior, they have a choice to be homosexual or not.

NOTE:  Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same.  A person can be a pedophiliac but not be a homosesxual.  A person can be a homosexual and not be a pedophiliac.

I am quite willing to say the TS had a choice as to how he behaved.  But, I cannot say that he had a choice as to his gender preference.

As I understand it, TS has been convicted to a crime that has placed him in prison.  But, that conviction is not enought to tell me whether he is a homosexual or whether is is a pedophiliac, or whether he is either.  His conviction is only enought to tell me that the evidence that he had committed a crime against certain plaintiffs was enough to result in a conviction.  My intention is not to go beyond that in any statement that I make about hilm.

But, in my thinking it is neither a criminal act, nor a sin to have a specific gender preference.  While I do not know how TS developed his gender preference, whatever that may be, I am clear in my mind that he did not chose his gender preference any more than I chose mine.

[Gregory]

absolute certainty

In science is probably never 100% certain.

Typically scientists give resulte to either a 95% certainty or a 99% certainty, never 100%.

So, from tht perspective, I do not claim 100% certainty for my view.  :

 

[Johann]

absolute certainty

In science is probably never 100% certain.

Typically scientists give resulte to either a 95% certainty or a 99% certainty, never 100%.

So, from tht perspective, I do not claim 100% certainty for my view.  :

 

Is this science - on what may make you fat?

http://sciencenordic.com/new-theory-co2-makes-you-fat

[Bob Pickle]

But, I cannot say that he had a choice as to his gender preference.

While I do not know how TS developed his gender preference, whatever that may be, I am clear in my mind that he did not chose his gender preference any more than I chose mine.

I have a problem with your statements as they are. While you say that you can't say that Tommy had a choice, you say with certainty that Tommy didn't have a choice. I can't see why you don't simply keep the question open, rather than shutting the door tightly on the possibility that he did have a choice.

Two points may be raised at this juncture:

1) Rom. 1:26, 27 portrays homosexual behavior as being a choice.

2) Sometimes the choices that lead to homosexual attractions may be seemingly unrelated to sexuality. The rabbit I had which turned into a lesbian pedophile when the cage became overcrowded, and that went back to normal when some of the bunnies were removed, would be a case in point. Thus the choice of environment, such as city vs. country living, could affect one's desires, even though that choice seems unrelated.

[Artiste]

The physology that exists for the addictive substances is totally absent from the development of gender preference.  That is a known fact. 

Gregory, what are your medical educational qualifications to back up the "facts" that you like to throw out into the discussion with such absolute certainty?

Maybe you are not aware that medically accepted facts change from decade to decade due to new findings.

[Gregory]

Bob, I have always said the homosexual behavior is a choice.

[Gregory]

Artiste:
Of course medical facts change.  I think that I have been very clear that sicence does not have a current answer for the etiology of homosexuality.

My educational qualifications:  I am not going to get into a battle of credentials.  They are of interest in a discussion.  I have previously given them and I will let them rest at that.  Some of the biggest nuts are people with credentials. 

It is fine with me for you to form your own opinon as to the truth of what I say.  I have openly identified some aspects of what I have said in which some people disagree with me.  But, if you know and understand the literature on the subject you know and understand why I make some of the statements that Imake.

So, it is up to you.  Decide that I am off the wall if you will.  That is fine with me.  Or, agree with me and that will be O.K. also.

    

[Gregory]

Bob, I can't say that anyone has a gender preference choice because I am clearly of the opinion that people do not have a gender preference choice.