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[tinka]

Johann,
Have you ever wondered about the angels comments (so sorry but hope you can read through the lines on this one. I am sure you will know what I mean and don't want to go into detail for reasons of outside SDA view that might be looking in.)  The comment refers to a room of people where it is stated that some of those are just food for the worms." Where is their love for perps of evil?? and also at the Crucifixion when Desire of Ages state that Jesus "ignored" the evil ones that cried out for his death. But then on the cross he asked forgiveness as they did not know what they did.  Wasnt he talking about the misjudging of the courts because later in scripture he will bring forth the very ones that chose and did his fate. Were they forgiven or not>> I am thinking no.. I have wondered a lot about all this and giving sympathy to the ones that killed Christ. I just can't do that!!  But what about those that do know and bring so much destruction to others and live for it, cover for it lie for it and deny it?? Don't you think that some cross over and too late and still walk the earth?? Only people that have the Love of God cannot bear the fall of another human but the one who chose their downfall and placed their self to self only do not have this love for others just their self so what would wasted moments do for them as we all morn for a lost soul. Can't help being a little confused on this point. Some times I think we are instructed to be this way for our brothers in Christ and not the destroyers that we are to shun.....lot to think about for me.  I sure do get angry at the evil powers worked through people to bring down the last chance that could save others...

[Johann]

Johann,
Have you ever wondered about the angels comments (so sorry but hope you can read through the lines on this one. I am sure you will know what I mean and don't want to go into detail for reasons of outside SDA view that might be looking in.)  The comment refers to a room of people where it is stated that some of those are just food for the worms." Where is their love for perps of evil?? and also at the Crucifixion when Desire of Ages state that Jesus "ignored" the evil ones that cried out for his death. But then on the cross he asked forgiveness as they did not know what they did.  Wasnt he talking about the misjudging of the courts because later in scripture he will bring forth the very ones that chose and did his fate. Were they forgiven or not>> I am thinking no.. I have wondered a lot about all this and giving sympathy to the ones that killed Christ. I just can't do that!!  But what about those that do know and bring so much destruction to others and live for it, cover for it lie for it and deny it?? Don't you think that some cross over and too late and still walk the earth?? Only people that have the Love of God cannot bear the fall of another human but the one who chose their downfall and placed their self to self only do not have this love for others just their self so what would wasted moments do for them as we all morn for a lost soul. Can't help being a little confused on this point. Some times I think we are instructed to be this way for our brothers in Christ and not the destroyers that we are to shun.....lot to think about for me.  I sure do get angry at the evil powers worked through people to bring down the last chance that could save others...

Tinka,

Nothing changes the fact that God hates sin but loves the sinner. None of us are able to define in others when they have sinned against the Holy Spirit. It could apply to those who make wicked plans counting on forgiveness afterwards, but who am I to judge ?

Who are excluded from singing "Whosoever meaneth me..."?

[tinka]

Yes, your right I think that mostly happens in the adultery field of preplaning  different spouses. In fact years ago I heard that stated with a church 4 some and the preacher faced them one day in church. He asked them all to leave immediately and all sympathizers go with them and they did

 It was a shocker in an instant but...all the confusion and turmoil was gone out of the church that instant and I never forgot how it was handled and how it ended.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I thought he was, but wanted to be more certain.

Is Tommy Danny's brother?

Wow. You didn't know that??

[christian]

Johann,
Have you ever wondered about the angels comments (so sorry but hope you can read through the lines on this one. I am sure you will know what I mean and don't want to go into detail for reasons of outside SDA view that might be looking in.)  The comment refers to a room of people where it is stated that some of those are just food for the worms." Where is their love for perps of evil?? and also at the Crucifixion when Desire of Ages state that Jesus "ignored" the evil ones that cried out for his death. But then on the cross he asked forgiveness as they did not know what they did.  Wasnt he talking about the misjudging of the courts because later in scripture he will bring forth the very ones that chose and did his fate. Were they forgiven or not>> I am thinking no.. I have wondered a lot about all this and giving sympathy to the ones that killed Christ. I just can't do that!!  But what about those that do know and bring so much destruction to others and live for it, cover for it lie for it and deny it?? Don't you think that some cross over and too late and still walk the earth?? Only people that have the Love of God cannot bear the fall of another human but the one who chose their downfall and placed their self to self only do not have this love for others just their self so what would wasted moments do for them as we all morn for a lost soul. Can't help being a little confused on this point. Some times I think we are instructed to be this way for our brothers in Christ and not the destroyers that we are to shun.....lot to think about for me.  I sure do get angry at the evil powers worked through people to bring down the last chance that could save others...

Tinka,

Nothing changes the fact that God hates sin but loves the sinner. None of us are able to define in others when they have sinned against the Holy Spirit. It could apply to those who make wicked plans counting on forgiveness afterwards, but who am I to judge ?

Who are excluded from singing "Whosoever meaneth me..."?

I am often left to ponder the words of God (Depart from me ye workers of iniquity). It is the lack of love that defines iniquity more than anything. "When I was thirsty ye gave me no drink, in prison and you did not visit me" Naked and ye did not cloth me". Wow, I read this and was a little startled because God did not say depart you HOMO, or Liar or drunkard or fornicator or adulterer.

[princessdi]

Christian, where have you been?  Missed seeing you post. 

Well, I think most folks when that see that verse about those imprisoned, they think more like Paul and Silas, not thinking about the [guilty} thief on the cross.  I don't believe we do it intentionally, I think it just never occurs to us.  As I was saying in another thread....Jesus has to be our example......

[Johann]

It will soon be a requirement by American authorities that Seventh-day Adventist Churches take safety measures against sexual molestation of children. This might be caused by cases where Catholic priests were involved. Adult leaders in the children's divisions of Sabbath School and Pathfinders will be required to apply for an official certificate based on thorough investigations and hearings prior to accepting a position working with children.

The price of the certificate will be $30.00 and is valid for three years. This includes insurance. Without using these certificates the Church could face tremendous claims for damages.

How will this influence our work for children in the future?

[horsethief]

The SDA church could send a loud message to it's members and onlookers by disfellowshipping the people who knowingly did nothing while Tommy Shelton forced himself upon underage boys while employed at 3abn.

[Gregory]

It will soon be a requirement by American authorities that Seventh-day Adventist Churches take safety measures against sexual molestation of children. This might be caused by cases where Catholic priests were involved. Adult leaders in the children's divisions of Sabbath School and Pathfinders will be required to apply for an official certificate based on thorough investigations and hearings prior to accepting a position working with children.

The price of the certificate will be $30.00 and is valid for three years. This includes insurance. Without using these certificates the Church could face tremendous claims for damages.

That is already here and is a requirement in some Conferences, and that number is growing.  It is brought about not so much becasue of a legal requirement of the civil government.  Rather it is a result of the growing understanding of the legal liability of the local Conference.

As to the stated cost of $30.00, that figure in inaccurate.  That cost will vary according to the company that the local Conference retains to process the searches of legal and crlminal data bases.  At this point in time some Conferences are paying $200 per person checked.

It should be clearly stated that the charge cited is only a cost to check legal and criminal data bases.  It does not include any insurance and under U.S. law it could not include insurance.  Insurance is something that must be purchased from a licensed insurance company that provides that type of insurance, such as Chubb.  However, it shoudl be noted that such insurance is becomming less and less available.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Any word on how he is doing in prison?