Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Artiste]

I don't believe that allowing God to work means not speaking up anymore.

What do you think constitutes speaking up?

[Johann]

What was the offence of the Galatians? Why did Paul not just forgive them according to the 7x70 formula, but called them "You idiots!"

[Artiste]

"You idiots!   You must be bewitched,  to have lost the vision of Jesus Christ crucified.   Tell me:  did you gain life in the Spirit by meeting the law's requirements or by believing the good news?   How can you be so stupid?   Having begun on the spiritual path,  do you now expect keeping the rules to see you home?   Does all that you have experienced mean nothing now?   Is that where you have ended up?   Tell me:  when God gives you the Spirit and causes miracles to happen for you,  is that because you stick to the regulations or because you believe the Gospel?"

[Artiste]

I think Paul mentions hypocrisy.

[Johann]

But they were still the Christian Church

[Bob Pickle]

I don't believe that allowing God to work means not speaking up anymore.

What do you think constitutes speaking up?

Some would advocate not saying anything at all, and just letting God take care of it. I don't see a problem saying whenever opportunity arises that Danny really needs to return the money he's taken from 3ABN, regardless of whether the board approved of his obtaining that money or not. Those 3ABN asks for money from need to know how that money has been spent, including paying for 3ABN and Danny's lawsuit against those who blew the whistle on Danny's cover up of Tommy's molestation of children.

[Artiste]

Possibly the 3ABN situation as well as La Sierra's teaching of evolution is not being handled well by church leadership because of deterioration of the quality of the leadership.

Ellen White had some interesting things to say on the subject:

It is not wise to choose one man as president of the General Conference... (TM 342, 1895)

The General Conference is itself becoming corrupted with wrong sentiments and principles... (TM 359, 1895)

It has been some time since I have considered the General Conference as the voice of God.  (17MR 216, 1898)

[christian]

History is repeating itself to a great degree. Somehow the church has become the arbitrator of truth instead of the conduit for truth. There will never be salvation in the church it will always be through Jesus Christ. The Jews had the truth but in the end became the accusers of Christ the one they were to represent. They started out as the defense lawyers and ended up being the prosecuting attorney against their own client.
     Can't we see what is happening God is judging the church now, pleading with it, and weighing it in the balance. Did anyone take notice that the offshoot group that was in the news recently in as little as two months had the entire civilized world on edge thinking wondering and mocking the coming of Christ? And why? Because these people though deluded actually believed and practiced what they believed and in a short, very short time, their message was put out to the entire world. There is a power in the truth to move people but that power is not the Holy Spirit. It takes the Holy Spirit along with truth to change the heart and give people the power to overcome sin. Without the Holy Spirit we have the law condemning the brothering to a life of sin and perpetual tithe collecting. There are concessions to the church the numbers grow and so sin flourishes in a people who have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof.

Possibly the 3ABN situation as well as La Sierra's teaching of evolution is not being handled well by church leadership because of deterioration of the quality of the leadership.

Ellen White had some interesting things to say on the subject:

It is not wise to choose one man as president of the General Conference... (TM 342, 1895)

The General Conference is itself becoming corrupted with wrong sentiments and principles... (TM 359, 1895)

It has been some time since I have considered the General Conference as the voice of God.  (17MR 216, 1898)

[Johann]

Yesterday afternoon a friend who is a professor emeritus of Old Testament stopped by for a visit before he returns to his home in America. We had an interesting talk about the book of Daniel and how its message could bring a revival to the Church these days.

Does anyone claim that a clearer understanding of how the prophecies are being fulfilled or a keener conviction of who is the Anti Christ bring such a revival? My friend pointed to several instances where Ellen G White tells us how we are to deal with fellow Christians in other denominations and that we are not to provoke them.

He pointed to the key question in the book of Daniel 3:15, "And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?”

We need to know that God in our own lives. How?

[Artiste]

Ellen G White tells us how we are to deal with fellow Christians in other denominations and that we are not to provoke them.

Do you think that a widespread distribution of the Great Controversy will provoke Christians of other denominations?

I have heard some reports that might indicate that.

[Johann]

There was a time in the history of the United States that bashing a certain church was a good way to get an audience and gain adherents. Is that as important today as it was then?

Today bashing another world religion seems as important to gain influence among Christian churches, and some are jumping on that band wagon - for better or for worse.

Then you have the "simple minded" Christians who feel their personal relationship with their Lord is what matters.

[Artiste]

Then you have the "simple minded" Christians who feel their personal relationship with their Lord is what matters.

I believe that's the most important.

[Johann]

Then you have the "simple minded" Christians who feel their personal relationship with their Lord is what matters.

I believe that's the most important.

Watch out, Artiste! You might get bradend for making that statement.

I know they will deny it vehemently, but I have a notion Linda Shelton got whipped out because her devotionals and songs were leaning too much in that direction. They may have feared some of the heavy contributors might limit their contributions unless she was cut off. So what did they get in stead?

It was impossible to fire her just for that, so they had to hitch her on to some affair, and were certain it would work. Well, it did, didn't it?

[Snoopy]

Watch out, Artiste! You might get bradend for making that statement.

I know they will deny it vehemently, but I have a notion Linda Shelton got whipped out because her devotionals and songs were leaning too much in that direction. They may have feared some of the heavy contributors might limit their contributions unless she was cut off. So what did they get in stead?

It was impossible to fire her just for that, so they had to hitch her on to some affair, and were certain it would work. Well, it did, didn't it?

Yes, it did!!  Praise the Lord!  His timing is perfect - there are no accidents!!

[Johann]

When I was asked to preach in Poland around 1980 I discovered that when I said the word "truth" the interpreter used the word "pravda". I knew that there was a newspaper in Russia called Pravda and that was supposed to mean "truth". Later I asked if the word was used the same way in Polish as in Russian, but I was told that truth is not the same in Moscow as it is in Warshaw.

I also find that "truth" is not the same as it is proclaimed by a person calling himself  "truth" - as we define truth. I also notice that when they are making comments on what I have writted here on AT they first change the meaning of what I am saying and then they shoot their self-made strawman to pieces. An interesting attempt to gain adherents which may be very successful for quite a while. But there will be a final  judgment.