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[Artiste]

What is the cause of the deep-seated and long-running problems with 3ABN?

If 3ABN was a ministry not connected with the Seventh-day Adventist church, would we be equally concerned about what has been going on there?  Although the quasi relationship between 3ABN and the SDA church is ambiguous, the church appears to continue to protect 3ABN with their blessing.

As one of our AT members, princessdi, put it so eloquently upon attending a convocation where Dr Yvonne Lewis was promoting the 3ABN urban channel, "Dr. Graham (President of PUC) and Pastor Pedersen (President of NCC) were both sitting right there grinnin' and nodding in approval".

[Ricardo Graham is the president of the Pacific Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.]

If there is a 300 pound gorilla sitting in the room with 3ABN, is anyone going to prevail against them?

What are your thoughts?

[polymark]

My thoughts about the S.D.A. church not responding to the offenses with 3ABN is this:
What do you do with an Independent Ministry that has gained the respect of many around the world, people are so on board that they give their tithes and offerings to further the gospel with that entity. 3ABN may not be so glorified in the eyes of the Church but what can they do?
 

[Artiste]

In dealing with the 300 lb. gorilla (note that it was not called an 800 lb. gorilla -- not that powerful?), I would first of all suggest that this is not a criticism of the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

As was mentioned in another thread, church leaders are also having difficulty with the opposite end of the spectrum which is the evolution vs. creation debate and the debacle at La Sierra University.  And by difficulty, I mean that some almost appear to sanction the teaching of evolution...some kind of faith-based evolution I assume.

Should we pray for our church leaders?

Is there a more proactive solution? 







     

[Artiste]

Those of us who are committed Seventh-day Adventists would like to think that our church will always be there for us.

But will it?

From one of our church founders and messenger of the Lord, Ellen White:

“In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. If her spiritual experience does not correspond to the advantages that Christ, at infinite cost, has bestowed on her, if the blessings conferred have not qualified her to do the work entrusted to her, on her will be pronounced the sentence: “Found wanting.” By the light bestowed, the opportunities given, will she be judged. . . . ” {LDE 59.3}

[Gregory]

While some may know what LDE means, others probably do not.  It might be helpfull when you cite such to spell it out in full so they could check it out if they wished.

[Johann]

While some may know what LDE means, others probably do not.  It might be helpfull when you cite such to spell it out in full so they could check it out if they wished.

Ellen G White, Last Day Events, 1992. 330 pp. Instruction regarding the end time.

[Artiste]

Thank you, Johann.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Prayer changes things and is the first and most proactive thing we all should be doing.

Also, EGW says that even though the SDA Church may appear about to fall, it will not fall.

In dealing with the 300 lb. gorilla (note that it was not called an 800 lb. gorilla -- not that powerful?), I would first of all suggest that this is not a criticism of the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

As was mentioned in another thread, church leaders are also having difficulty with the opposite end of the spectrum which is the evolution vs. creation debate and the debacle at La Sierra University.  And by difficulty, I mean that some almost appear to sanction the teaching of evolution...some kind of faith-based evolution I assume.

Should we pray for our church leaders?

Is there a more proactive solution? 







     

[Artiste]

That's true, Daryl, and thanks for the reminder.

[Johann]

What could prayer accomplish? Or is it wrong to ask  that question?

[Artiste]

What would be wrong with the question?

[Johann]

That's the question

[christian]

Ellen G. White in the letter to Elders Butler and Haskell, dated December 8, 1886, wrote very pointedly concerning the relationship between the Jewish Church of Christ's day, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is from this letter that the oft-used quotation is to be found- "The church many appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out-the chaff separated from the precious wheat."The letter is talking about the Church when "Satan will work his miracles to deceive; he will set up his power as supreme. "It is stated in the setting when "the decree of national councils" and "the national laws" shall seek to enforce the observance of the false Sabbath. (ibid p.380). That time is now. "When it does come, we will then be able better "to measure the strength of Israel."

There is no such thing as a perpetual anointing by God. Even Adam and Eve learned the hard way the wages of sin. Do you think that you can willfully disregard sin and expect God's anointing? There is absolutely no sanctuary in the fact that this is the Adventist Church, to the contrary like the Jews of old the penalty is worse for those who have had great light. THE WILLFUL NEGLECT TO CORRECT OPEN SIN AT 3ABN AND THE CHURCH'S UNWILLINGNESS TO CORRECT IT WILL IN THE END CAUSE CATASTROPHY. The people here though derided and scorn, if listened to could help the church avoid what most certainly will be catastrophic if not for the church the individuals and their salvation. Danny's salvation is at stake and that is not a thing to take lightly.

Prayer changes things and is the first and most proactive thing we all should be doing.

Also, EGW says that even though the SDA Church may appear about to fall, it will not fall.

In dealing with the 300 lb. gorilla (note that it was not called an 800 lb. gorilla -- not that powerful?), I would first of all suggest that this is not a criticism of the principles and beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

As was mentioned in another thread, church leaders are also having difficulty with the opposite end of the spectrum which is the evolution vs. creation debate and the debacle at La Sierra University.  And by difficulty, I mean that some almost appear to sanction the teaching of evolution...some kind of faith-based evolution I assume.

Should we pray for our church leaders?

Is there a more proactive solution? 







     

[princessdi]

Well, Pastor Johann, as I see it prayer could accomplish several things.

It could change the hearts and minds of our leaders so they could become courageous enough to stand up against wrong.  If they really had the courage, they could divest themselves of any association with 3ABN, knowing that they would have to provide the membership an honest and truthful explantion.

Prayer could change our minds and how we view this, and decide to leaving this situation soley in the hands of God.  After all these years, and the knowledge that GC is aware of the issues, this might be a real option.

It could also move Danny adn 3ABN to clean up their act, and rightly represent Christ and the church and biblical message to which they voluntarily attach themselves......when not in court, that is.........

Another question is are we willing to allow God to work this out in His time.  I believe there has been ample time put into to this effort to affect justice ourselves, to know that this probably will not happen through any efforts or ours.  Is it time to allow God to work it all out according to His will?

One more thought I had is this.  The efforts really have been made to accomplish a specific desired result.  If we do allow God to work and He doesn't see fit to settle this according to that desired result, will we then end up like Jonah.....sitting in thehot sun angry because God didn't give him the deisred result, having more compassion for a tree than for God's people?   

No one has to answer these questions, they are just food for thought.

What could prayer accomplish? Or is it wrong to ask  that question?

[Bob Pickle]

I don't believe that allowing God to work means not speaking up anymore.

As far as Jonah goes, Nineveh repented, and at the king's command everyone donned sackcloth. I have yet to hear from King Danny anything akin to repentance, which biblically would include making restitution for what he has taken from 3ABN and myself, and fully disclosing all his income and assets to Linda so that they can finally finish dividing their marital property.

Recent communications suggest that Danny is up to his old tricks of covering up for his family members through pressure behind the scenes, and threats of embarrassment in court.

If things do not change, the men of Nineveh may arise in judgment and condemn Danny and 3ABN, because they did repent at the preaching of Jonah.