Advent Talk

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Go and check out the Christians Discuss Forum for committed Christians at  http://www.christians-discuss.com

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Sunday Was Nailed to the Cross  (Read 15717 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Sunday Was Nailed to the Cross
« on: March 29, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Heard this one today from the head elder.

The ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross, right? Sunday keepers often point to Pentecost allegedly being on Sunday as a reason for keeping Sunday now. But if Pentecost as a ceremonial feast day was nailed to the cross, then wasn't Sunday nailed to the cross?
Logged

Tsatsui

  • New Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Sunday Was Nailed to the Cross
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 07:02:19 AM »

This point is found in Colossians, particularly in the Young's Literal Translation: 

"And you—being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh—He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly—having triumphed over them in it."  Col. 2:13-15.


Not all of the handwriting in the ordinances are against and contrary to us.  Those that specifically are point to our infraction against God and His government, and what was required to restore our acceptance; namely sacrifice.  To teach that the removal of the entire ceremonial law is what is indicated by the above passage is to open a truckload of worms, not just a can of them.

Also, the above passage reads a bit differently in the King James Version, but there are more than a few verses that need to be reconsidered because of the translators' inclinations/preferences. 

Heard this one today from the head elder.

The ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross, right? Sunday keepers often point to Pentecost allegedly being on Sunday as a reason for keeping Sunday now. But if Pentecost as a ceremonial feast day was nailed to the cross, then wasn't Sunday nailed to the cross?
Logged

Bob Pickle

  • Defendants
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4061
    • Pickle Publishing
Re: Sunday Was Nailed to the Cross
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 03:06:42 PM »

Would you agree that the annual feast of Pentecost was nailed to the cross?
Logged

Tsatsui

  • New Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Sunday Was Nailed to the Cross
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 06:26:13 AM »

Instead of the legality, the purposes of God are actually focused on the practical.  While one could spend their energies on supporting convention, it seems much more beneficial and rewarding to take honesty to its completion.  It matters far less to me if the Bible agrees with me than for me to agree with His word.  The word quotes YHWH as saying, come let us reason together.  I hope that is the method we employ here.

1.  Col. 2:13-14 --
   KJV -- "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;..."
   YLT -- "And you—being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh—He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;..."
   GLT -- "And you, being dead in the offenses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the offenses, blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;..."


Unfortunately, the King James doesn't contain the most reliable rendering of this passage.  We were dead in trespasses and uncircumcised flesh.  He forgave our trespasses, blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances that is aimed at us, and adversarily so.  This He took away and nailed to the cross.

2.  Acts 2:1-4 --
   KJV -- "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
   YLT -- "And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place, and there came suddenly out of the heaven a sound as of a bearing violent breath, and it filled all the house where they were sitting, and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare."
   GLT - "And in the fulfilling of the day of Pentecost, they were all with one mind in the same place. And suddenly a sound came out of the heaven, as being borne along by a violent wind! And it filled all the house where they were sitting.  And tongues as of fire appeared to them, being distributed, and it sat on each one of them.  And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak."


The word of YHWH uses days and months to identify time periods, but why reference this occurance to the completion of a ceremonial time period?  Was there any special corelation with them speaking and tongues and the ending of Pentecost, a clear point of confusion of the ceremonial law was entirely nailed to the cross, as many teach?   If that be the case, the restriction of clean versus unclean flesh foods is also null and void.
     
3.  Acts 12:4 --
     KJV -- "And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people."
     YLT -- "whom also having seized, he did put in prison, having delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to guard him, intending after the passover to bring him forth to the people."
     GLT -- "  whom also capturing him, he put him into prison, delivering him to four sets of four soldiers to guard him, intending to bring him up to the people after the Passover."


The Hebrew word "pascha" is in no way related to Easter, but Passover.  Another point.  Why would the word increase our confusion by using a time reference that was to be nailed to the cross?  Why not even use references to the Greek or Roman festivities, as they were publically known throughout the empire.  But, God isn't the author of confusion.

4.  Acts 18:21 --
   KJV -- "But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus."
   YLT -- "but took leave of them, saying, ‘It behoveth me by all means the coming feast to keep at Jerusalem, and again I will return unto you—God willing.’ And he sailed from Ephesus,"
   GLT -- "but took leave of them, saying, I must by all means keep the coming feast at Jerusalem; but I will come again to you, God willing. And he sailed from Ephesus."


Why would Paul, especially being the apostle to the gentiles, give the above reason for not staying any longer on his visit to Ephesus?  In fact, he greatly emphasizes the point by saying, "I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem:.."  And there are many more such references in the NT.  But this is a post, not an exhaustive attempt.

Lastly, what do you make of this quote?  Maybe somethings practical had caught her attention. 

"Would it not be well for us to observe holidays unto God, when we could revive in our minds the memory of his dealing with us? Would it not be well to consider his past blessings, to remember the impressive warnings that have come home to our souls, so that we shall not forget God? The world has many holidays, and men become engrossed with games, with horse-races, with gambling, smoking, and drunkenness. They show plainly under what banner they are standing. They make it evident that they do not stand under the banner of the Prince of Life, but that the prince of darkness rules and controls them. Shall not the people of God more frequently have holy convocations in which to thank God for his rich blessings? Shall we not find time in which to praise Christ for his rest, peace, and joy, and make manifest by daily thanksgiving that we appreciate the great sacrifice made in our behalf, that we may be partakers of the divine nature? Shall we not speak of the prospective rest in the paradise of God, and tell of the honor and glory in store for the servants of Jehovah? "My people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting-places." We are homeward-bound, seeking a better county, even a heavenly."  Special Testimonies on Education, pp. 80-81.  circa. 1897.

We can choose to be conservative or progressive; to hedge up one's current position or seek out the old paths (Jer. 6:16). 


Would you agree that the annual feast of Pentecost was nailed to the cross?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 06:31:39 AM by Tsatsui »
Logged

Tsatsui

  • New Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Sunday Was Nailed to the Cross
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 06:28:45 AM »

And to the original question, as the weekly cycle rotates through the calendar each year, just because Pentecost fell on any given first day, that is no reason for Sunday observance, unless it likewise gives reason for observing every other day of the week as well.

Heard this one today from the head elder.

The ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross, right? Sunday keepers often point to Pentecost allegedly being on Sunday as a reason for keeping Sunday now. But if Pentecost as a ceremonial feast day was nailed to the cross, then wasn't Sunday nailed to the cross?
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up