Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

Lawrence Downing brings into question the Governance of Seventh-day Adventist institutions and sites several serious failures of oversight and governance, a problem in all institutions, including the SEC as evidenced by Madoff.

He seems to advocate laiety, including the rebels at LSAU 
take steps to tale control of institutions, but, just where would such a take-over be designed to lead, or END.

Governance is a dual edged sword as experienced by the outright rebellion at La Sierra University. Governance can abrogate its purpose and function and alter its mission turning the institution into a hypocrisy of it's purposed mission.

There is a falacy in the Downing blog including some respondents allegations: That WASC has authority to govern a church based institution and set standards that are violative of the religious mission of the Adventist University even though it is supported by a clearly rebellious faculty and administration of La Sierra University. It is a religious and educational 501(c) 3 organization owned and operated by the Seventh-day Adventist church and dedicated to the mission of perpetuating the Mission of the church as defined in its fundamental beliefs. To interfere with the right of conscience of the Seventh-day Adventist church is unconscionable and it is simply unconstitutional!!!

While the administration and faculty at La Sierra would prefer to abscond with the La Sierra University, a Seventh-day Adventist Institution of “higher learning” of dubious ethical and moral values, and turn it into a bastion of secular humanism and progressive “sophisticated” evolutionary studies under the guise of “progressive Adventism”, they are best defined as NON-ADVENTIST.

It is time for Governance to establish right here a clear line in the sand and either bring Revival and Reformation or shut it down and sell it’s assets.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

From: Elaine Nelson Reply 12 hours ago
That is not as easy or profitable as it may sound to those who apparently do not understand the charter of a university.  LSU has been defined as a university with the approval of the SDA church.  In that designation, they must comply with WASC to continue to receive accreditation as a university.

If the church makes the decision that it no longer wishes to operate a university there are two choices:  no longer comply with the requirements for a university and become a Bible college; or if the wish is to maintain university status it must allow the WASC to make recommendations that are necessary for that satus.

It is important to know that without university status the government student grants would drastically drop as students and parents would not pay for tuition at a non-accredited school, nor would students be able to enter graduate studies from a non-accredited school.  Without government funding, there probably would not be sufficient funds to continue the schools operation.  It is a Sophie's Choice.  Which one should be made?

Elaine Nelson

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

It is important to know that University Status as prescribed by WASC does not confer with it the right to dictate an academic program that is violative of the right of conscience and the right to conduct a course of study that is cohesive with the mission of the church. And if this comes with the limitation of grants and financial aid programs that eminate from the Federal Government, then to do so is most certainly unconstitutional; And worthy of direct challenge!!!

Pablum propagated by extreme liberals in the church is simply that and if we are not willing to take this stand now, we will not stand in the tempest to come!!! It is, rather, simply creeping compromise!!!

The premise that an extreme liberal (I dare not call them Adventists as it is heresy)  says it is so, and thus it is so, must be challenged for both it’s moral and academic position. There is no basis in fact that allows WASC to impose it’s immoral judgments upon a church institution and if they think they must, then their standing and unconstitutional positions require a serious and constitutional challenge.

Consider your position not simply challenged, but in fact abrogated as pure extreme liberal pablum; and from one more than willing to challenge this outrageous premise.

Simply put, I do not purchase your premise and if it were so would require the church to challenge the same.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[Artiste]

Elaine Nelson is known to be not only not an Adventist (probably former SDA), but also an agnostic.

[Gailon Arthur Joy]

She is also not a proponent of Freedom of Religion...and in fact would seem to support "Freedom FROM Religion!!!

It would seem she is a bit beyond "Agnostic" and seems to support "Atheism" and "Evolution".

And for one who is a none Adventist she sure has plenty to say on AToday!!! And needs to be met head on!!!

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[icedragon101]

Lawrence Downing brings into question the Governance of Seventh-day Adventist institutions and sites several serious failures of oversight and governance, a problem in all institutions, including the SEC as evidenced by Madoff.

He seems to advocate laiety, including the rebels at LSAU 
take steps to tale control of institutions, but, just where would such a take-over be designed to lead, or END.

Governance is a dual edged sword as experienced by the outright rebellion at La Sierra University. Governance can abrogate its purpose and function and alter its mission turning the institution into a hypocrisy of it's purposed mission.

There is a falacy in the Downing blog including some respondents allegations: That WASC has authority to govern a church based institution and set standards that are violative of the religious mission of the Adventist University even though it is supported by a clearly rebellious faculty and administration of La Sierra University. It is a religious and educational 501(c) 3 organization owned and operated by the Seventh-day Adventist church and dedicated to the mission of perpetuating the Mission of the church as defined in its fundamental beliefs. To interfere with the right of conscience of the Seventh-day Adventist church is unconscionable and it is simply unconstitutional!!!

While the administration and faculty at La Sierra would prefer to abscond with the La Sierra University, a Seventh-day Adventist Institution of “higher learning” of dubious ethical and moral values, and turn it into a bastion of secular humanism and progressive “sophisticated” evolutionary studies under the guise of “progressive Adventism”, they are best defined as NON-ADVENTIST.

It is time for Governance to establish right here a clear line in the sand and either bring Revival and Reformation or shut it down and sell it’s assets.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

  I talk to Ricardo Graham about this situation.  He stated that over a 15 year period the faculty of LSU had become so strong they could vote what ever they wanted to.  If a person was employed by the denomination and did not hold to the teachings of the sda church it would be almost impossible to get them out.  He is well aware of the situation and is doing his part to bring this under control.  he states that it is not because of his leadership that this is happening.  He dose not endorde what LSU has taught or done.  he is only recently been made aware of it. 

[Artiste]

Ricardo Graham had only recently been made aware of what LSU has been teaching!?

I would have a very hard time believing that!

And why wouldn't it be part of his responsibility, considering his position, to know that?

[Snoopy]

From: Elaine Nelson Reply 12 hours ago
That is not as easy or profitable as it may sound to those who apparently do not understand the charter of a university.  LSU has been defined as a university with the approval of the SDA church.  In that designation, they must comply with WASC to continue to receive accreditation as a university.

If the church makes the decision that it no longer wishes to operate a university there are two choices:  no longer comply with the requirements for a university and become a Bible college; or if the wish is to maintain university status it must allow the WASC to make recommendations that are necessary for that satus.

It is important to know that without university status the government student grants would drastically drop as students and parents would not pay for tuition at a non-accredited school, nor would students be able to enter graduate studies from a non-accredited school.  Without government funding, there probably would not be sufficient funds to continue the schools operation.  It is a Sophie's Choice.  Which one should be made?

Elaine Nelson

It's always about the money.  Follow the money.  But we have to remember that man cannot serve two masters.  I have found that the term "governance" has different meanings to different people.

[Murcielago]

I question whether LSU is as out of line from commonly held SDA current belief as many seem to wish it is.

[Johann]

I thought of La Sierra when I read the following about Union College. Time? 1931.

The situation at Union College was not good. Strange teachings had been brought in that affected both teachers and students. The president had renounced the faith, and had influenced teachers and students to do the same. The chief Bible teacher had followed the president, but evidently did not know what he had done...
Union College was in a bad way. It had lost the confidence of the field as a safe place to send young people--the first day of the next school year we enrolled less than two hundred students. We were heavily in debt... To cap the climax, Union now had a president not approved by the General Conference. Union was doomed.

What can we learn from history?

[Dedication]

What can we learn from history?




"The university is a GC institution, not a union institution."

So...
What has the GC done in regards to teachings in their university that are in open opposition to:
1. Creation (which results in undermining...
2. The Sabbath
3.  The fall and the need for and means of our redemption.

From the replacement of these fundamentals with supposed "scientific knowledge" we see another gospel emerging and it appears it's strong geographical center is in the Pacific Union Conference, which pretty much denies that Christ died a substitutionary death and that His shed blood was necessary for mankind to have forgiveness and reconciliation with God.

That gospel more closely (though it's advocates will point out the differences) follows the new age idea of the human race evolving through quantum leaps in human historical development.   Christ's death and resurrection was supposedly not a scarifice for sin, but merely a catalyst for a major quantum leap for mankind.   Now we are supposedly on the edge of another monumental quantum leap into the age of Aquarius where mankind reaches a super human level.

When the account of a perfect creation, and mankinds subsequent fall into sin and degradation is cast aside, then religion soon finds it's way into meshing with new age type thinking on many points.

[Dedication]

It's always about the money.  Follow the money.  But we have to remember that man cannot serve two masters.  I have found that the term "governance" has different meanings to different people.

It appears the president sold out the University for money:
Educate Truth

Also, it seems like Randal Wisbey, President of La Sierra University, signed a $25 million dollar bond agreement with the State of California in 2008 (to include $17 million dollars to refinance the new Thaine B. Price Science Complex) where one of the stipulations of the bond was that no forms of “sectarian instruction” (presumably to include the active promotion of creationist or intelligent design concepts) would be presented within any of the buildings funded by the bond.

The problem isn't just with La Sierra,
The same president was president of our college when our kids attended there.
I started getting phone calls and e-mails almost every night from my daughter begging me for scientific reasons to believe in Creation.   I tried, but apparently the teacher only dismissed them as "uneducated".
My daughter quit the class because it was undermining her faith.
Later she went to a non-Adventist college and was pleasantly surprised that people there respected her faith.

I'm not sure it is safe to send our young people to our schools.   Yes, they do have some good Bible classes, BUT that's all undermined and destroyed by the science classes.

[Bob Pickle]

"The university is a GC institution, not a union institution."

So...
What has the GC done in regards to teachings in their university that are in open opposition to:

My apologies if I created some confusion. La Sierra is not a GC institution. Loma Linda University is.

The issues you are raising are dear to my heart, since I ran into undermining of our faith (other areas than creation/evolution) at three different schools. The last time a prominent faculty member confided that one of his/her children had lost their way at one of our schools. That should never happen.

In our schools the Bible should be the final authority, above every teacher, administrator, and textbook, and the SoP should be a close second. If this principle  is adhered to, there should be little problem.

[Johann]

Could it be that as long as the main concern of some of the Brethren at GC is to fight the ordination of women, La Sierra is "safe" from their influence?

[Bob Pickle]

Could it be that as long as the main concern of some of the Brethren at GC is to fight the ordination of women, La Sierra is "safe" from their influence?

What's your point?

And how is "fighting" rebellion the same as "fighting" WO?