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[Stan]

that is my error then, this drama goes back years now, and I have trouble remember what I had for breakfast today

Still $5,000 is a lot for used domains like that, I would like to get something like that for some of mine 

that explains why I said I was surprised they won, turns out they did not.  At that time I was getting some letters for a certain organization, over some domain names I own, and I sought out my own counsellors on that.

Am not saying Danny did or did not do anything wrong, the same with Linda, as I say this, the Message is more important that the Messenger.  God has used Donkeys, both real and human. If the only people who can share the message are ready for translation we are all in trouble, and the work will never come to being finished.

It is time to press on, I repeat  " What I do know is this, there are hurting, dying folks out there that are looking for answers on why there is suffering, pain and death, that need to have answers, and there is the great commission that needs to be fulfilled."

[Murcielago]

Stan, if you hadn't figured this out yet, I should make you aware that the Gospel commission is now a commercial enterprise valued in the billions if dollars. That is it's primary function among those who fulfil it. Jesus and the apostles did not commercialize it, they didn't make money off it, Jesus didn't charge admission to his events, he didn't take a salary, he didn't even have a home. Nor did he institute any organization that would do otherwise. But people did. And anything different than what Jesus himself set the example for, is just something humans have invented for their own gain, but of course in Jesus' name, and in the noble purpose of advancing the Gospel and their income.

[Bob Pickle]

If the only people who can share the message are ready for translation we are all in trouble, and the work will never come to being finished.

That isn't the issue, in my opinion. The issue is holding leaders accountable for public sin and misdeeds.

Even though there is a world to warn, Ted Wilson still called for the membership to hold leaders accountable.

It's while the people slept that the enemy sowed tares. So we need to be awake in order to protect the church.

You speak of $5,000 for domain names. How about $1+ million spent in 2007 and 2008 for the litigation? $1+ million reportedly paid to the IRS? c. $500,000 paid to Danny in 2006 by Remnant according to Remnant's 990's? 48 acres of land given to Danny in 2008? A $135,000 house sold to Danny for $6,139 in 1998?

When 3ABN comes into our communities and churches and asks us to give it our money, those who hear have a right to know how that money is being used. And if 3ABN won't tell them, others who choose to do so have a right to do so unmolested.

[Stan]

Stan, if you hadn't figured this out yet, I should make you aware that the Gospel commission is now a commercial enterprise valued in the billions if dollars. That is it's primary function among those who fulfil it. Jesus and the apostles did not commercialize it, they didn't make money off it, Jesus didn't charge admission to his events, he didn't take a salary, he didn't even have a home. Nor did he institute any organization that would do otherwise. But people did. And anything different than what Jesus himself set the example for, is just something humans have invented for their own gain, but of course in Jesus' name, and in the noble purpose of advancing the Gospel and their income.

The Gospel Commission is not a commercial enterprise. It is a commission directed at you and me to take the gospel to our next door neighbour, and the people we meet in the grocery store and the workplace. There are some who want to set back in their easy chairs and send $20 off to places like 3ABN, the Hopechannel, VOP etc and do their work INSTEAD of them.

[Stan]

You speak of $5,000 for domain names. How about $1+ million spent in 2007 and 2008 for the litigation? $1+ million reportedly paid to the IRS? c. $500,000 paid to Danny in 2006 by Remnant according to Remnant's 990's? 48 acres of land given to Danny in 2008? A $135,000 house sold to Danny for $6,139 in 1998?

When 3ABN comes into our communities and churches and asks us to give it our money, those who hear have a right to know how that money is being used. And if 3ABN won't tell them, others who choose to do so have a right to do so unmolested.

I do not want to sound like I have inside information, as I do not. I do think the board saw that they had to protect their investment and had to stop what they viewed as slander, especially after a mailing went out to all the churches regarding 3ABN. I did not see that but was told about it by a Pastor.

I have not seen any proof that 3ABN paid anything to the IRS. Some board members told me they did not pay anything.  But I do not have access to the financial records, not do I want to hunt that down.

I do know that some other organization have funded a pension, or a pension like asset for pioneers of an organization leaders in the past, if the board did that with the 48 acres then that is what they did. I really do not know the details on that, but it was a board action. I am not saying it was that, just a speculation from past experiences.

Danny did not buy that home for $6,139, be bought the residual value of it, the part he did not own, he did have a life tenancy, ie the right to live there free until death. I do not know the details, but that is a reasonable action.

It is time to press forward, there remains a work for each of us to do, and it involves our neighbours and friends.

[Stan]

Re the IRS

I do not know how it works in the US, but I do know that in Canada if a charity announced that it had a clean audit from the Canadian IRS (called the CRA) and if that charity actually had  a 'dirty audit'  the 'gates of hell' would suddenly break loose.  Is suspect it is the same with the IRS. I hope a trusted source is not feeding you bad information to manipulate you are about the $1,000,000 to the IRS.

How strong is your evidence on that?

Again, I do not have a pony in this parade, I would just want you to use the talents you have to do the work that I believe that God has called you to do, and I do not believe it is this. Even though we do not agrees on this, I still value your friendship.

[Sam]

If the only people who can share the message are ready for translation we are all in trouble, and the work will never come to being finished.

That isn't the issue, in my opinion. The issue is holding leaders accountable for public sin and misdeeds.

Even though there is a world to warn, Ted Wilson still called for the membership to hold leaders accountable.

It's while the people slept that the enemy sowed tares. So we need to be awake in order to protect the church.

You speak of $5,000 for domain names. How about $1+ million spent in 2007 and 2008 for the litigation? $1+ million reportedly paid to the IRS? c. $500,000 paid to Danny in 2006 by Remnant according to Remnant's 990's? 48 acres of land given to Danny in 2008? A $135,000 house sold to Danny for $6,139 in 1998?

When 3ABN comes into our communities and churches and asks us to give it our money, those who hear have a right to know how that money is being used. And if 3ABN won't tell them, others who choose to do so have a right to do so unmolested.

Got to love ya Bob. In your list of accusations I noticed you slipped in the word "reportedly" one million plus paid to the IRS. Reported by whom? You have been told repeatedly that after a lengthy investigation by the IRS into Danny and 3abn's financial records, that nothing was found, not even a minor infraction and no money exchanged hands between 3ABN and the IRS. Yet here you go again using the word "reportedly". Let's see what else you like to use: "I was told", "my sources say", "according to people close to the situation", "someone that was there said".....C'mon Bob! Everytime you utter those phrases you are participating in gossip, slander and heresay and therefore sinning big time! Spreading gossip is just as big of a sin as anything you accuse other's of doing. When you do come up with what seems to be a fact, you twist and turn it to fit your own agenda and edit out the parts that show your "fact" to be nothing like you have portrayed it.  You can keep repeating your lies over and over instead of admitting all the heresay that you try and spread as facts but God knows and sees what you are doing and you will be accountable. OH, don't waste your time now on telling me what those at 3abn have "reportedly" done. We are talking about you right now Bob. You alone. That is exactly how you will face your creator...alone. And all your excuses about exposing sin in the camp and holding people accountable will be vapors in the wind when our creator says "depart from me, I never knew you".  See Bob, when you stand before Him on that day, "you heard", "you were told" and "reportedly" won't be overlooked like it is here. Every bit of heresay that you have used to perpetuate lies and rumors will be written in the sand for you to see. Every minute that you lost trying to win souls because of your sick obsession with 3abn will be shown to you. 

********************************************************************************************************
And all you will have to lean on is "I was told", "I heard" and "reportedly".



MODERATOR HAT ON

Attacking people's personal lives is not allowed on this forum.  Please see the posted topic "Important Addition to the Forum Privacy Policy" in the material at the top of the 3ABN forum for an explanation.

MODERATOR HAT OFF

[Snoopy]

If the only people who can share the message are ready for translation we are all in trouble, and the work will never come to being finished.

That isn't the issue, in my opinion. The issue is holding leaders accountable for public sin and misdeeds.

Even though there is a world to warn, Ted Wilson still called for the membership to hold leaders accountable.

It's while the people slept that the enemy sowed tares. So we need to be awake in order to protect the church.

You speak of $5,000 for domain names. How about $1+ million spent in 2007 and 2008 for the litigation? $1+ million reportedly paid to the IRS? c. $500,000 paid to Danny in 2006 by Remnant according to Remnant's 990's? 48 acres of land given to Danny in 2008? A $135,000 house sold to Danny for $6,139 in 1998?

When 3ABN comes into our communities and churches and asks us to give it our money, those who hear have a right to know how that money is being used. And if 3ABN won't tell them, others who choose to do so have a right to do so unmolested.

Got to love ya Bob. In your list of accusations I noticed you slipped in the word "reportedly" one million plus paid to the IRS. Reported by whom? You have been told repeatedly that after a lengthy investigation by the IRS into Danny and 3abn's financial records, that nothing was found, not even a minor infraction and no money exchanged hands between 3ABN and the IRS. Yet here you go again using the word "reportedly". Let's see what else you like to use: "I was told", "my sources say", "according to people close to the situation", "someone that was there said".....C'mon Bob! Everytime you utter those phrases you are participating in gossip, slander and heresay and therefore sinning big time! Spreading gossip is just as big of a sin as anything you accuse other's of doing. When you do come up with what seems to be a fact, you twist and turn it to fit your own agenda and edit out the parts that show your "fact" to be nothing like you have portrayed it.  You can keep repeating your lies over and over instead of admitting all the heresay that you try and spread as facts but God knows and sees what you are doing and you will be accountable. OH, don't waste your time now on telling me what those at 3abn have "reportedly" done. We are talking about you right now Bob. You alone. That is exactly how you will face your creator...alone. And all your excuses about exposing sin in the camp and holding people accountable will be vapors in the wind when our creator says "depart from me, I never knew you".  See Bob, when you stand before Him on that day, "you heard", "you were told" and "reportedly" won't be overlooked like it is here. Every bit of heresay that you have used to perpetuate lies and rumors will be written in the sand for you to see. Every minute that you lost trying to win souls because of your sick obsession with 3abn will be shown to you. All the unhappiness that you have caused your family with this same obsession will pass clearly through your vision and finally, finally, your eyes will be opened to all the wrong that you have done, to all the hurt that you have caused other's, to the damage you have done to God's ministry. And all you will have to lean on is "I was told", "I heard" and "reportedly".

Chuckles!  That door swings both ways, Sammy!!

[Stan]

Bob
I thought about this some more.

I think the IRS issue, and the related ones may be resolved if you were to report to the IRS that 3ABN is giving misleading information to their donors over the IRS audit.

If the audit was as clean as the 3ABN lawyers say it was, then the various issues you have spoken about, the residual value of the home, the transfer of the property, the other payment ends up being a moot point.

This following is my personal opinion, I believe it was a clean audit of both 3ABN and DS. I also do not believe that you pulled this info out of the air, I have a tendency to believe that someone you trust is playing you. AND that to me as atrocity, you deserve better.

[Snoopy]

There is a substantial difference between an audit and a criminal investigation.

[Stan]

which was it?  AND where is the back up for the fine? If there was one?

[Bob Pickle]

Danny did not buy that home for $6,139, be bought the residual value of it, the part he did not own, he did have a life tenancy, ie the right to live there free until death.

Stan, 3ABN told the IRS under penalty of perjury that they sold the house for either that amount or $6,129. So you can't say that Danny did not buy that home for that amount.

Re the IRS

I do not know how it works in the US, but I do know that in Canada if a charity announced that it had a clean audit from the Canadian IRS (called the CRA) and if that charity actually had  a 'dirty audit'  the 'gates of hell' would suddenly break loose.  Is suspect it is the same with the IRS. I hope a trusted source is not feeding you bad information to manipulate you are about the $1,000,000 to the IRS.

1. The IRS is prohibited by law from disclosing return information. So if 3ABN settled up in some way with the IRS that didn't include disclosure, they could lie all they want and the IRS couldn't say anything about it.

2. 3ABN fought our attempt in the lawsuit to verify their bogus IRS vindication claim. If they really were vindicated, they wouldn't have done that.

[Stan]

Did he not have a life tenancy on that house? He bought out the remainder value.

I would sell you my home for $6,000 provided I had a second to die life tenancy. You keep it up, pay taxes etc, maintenance until my projected death, or the death of the second to die, which an actuarial research might say would be 40 years from now.

Am dealing with a similar situation right now, except she has to pay maintenance etc.

[Stan]

I am not saying there might not be issues,  but I do not think the sale of the remainder value is one of them.

[Bob Pickle]

Did he not have a life tenancy on that house? He bought out the remainder value.

When did he get the life tenancy? Earlier the same year.

So what if 3ABN were to give me a life tenancy in a $200,000 house this month, and then let me buy the remainder value next month for $10,000? Would anyone doubt that what really happened was that I had bought a $200,000 house for $10,000?

Was the remainder value the current value or the value years down the road? Years down the road.

What did 3ABN tell the IRS the value of the house was in 1998? $52,781.05. (See p. 13 of http://www.save-3abn.com/media/3abn-form-990-1998.pdf.)

I would sell you my home for $6,000 provided I had a second to die life tenancy.

Under that scenario, you owned the house to begin with. Danny never owned the house he was given a life estate to.

The fact that May Chung, the owner of the home, was also a 3ABN Board member should be taken into account.